5 ms·

Government funds university education here in Denmark. But you have to be responsible with tax payers money so the number of seats per program is determined by

Government funds university education here in Denmark. But you have to be responsible with tax payers money so the number of seats per program is determined by market demand. I think many Americans would be offended if they woke up one day and their universities had stopped offering useless gender studies degrees.

alpha_squared 5y ago
> useless gender studies degrees. I don't know why this is such a pervasive perspective, but it's really sad. This same logic extends to philosophy, theater, arts, psychology, sociology, and so many other disciplines. At which point, you're really just left with STEM, which seems to hint the preference is for trade schools (which do exist, but aren't favored). The loss of arts and social sciences would be a catastrophe for the academic world.
- rbanffy 5y ago
  > The loss of arts and social sciences would be a catastrophe for the academic world. But we need poor people to operate the machinery. They shouldn't be allowed to dream, write poetry, or do anything that we consider frivolous. The frivolous things are for the privileged to do. Sorry. My sarcasm couldn't be contained.
  - newfriend 5y ago
    They are free to do what they want. Forcing me to pay for them to do it is another matter.
    - genewitch 5y ago
      >let them eat cake
    - LocalH 5y ago
      You're already forced to pay for many things that you may not even know about. Do you know where every single dollar of your tax money goes?
- jknz 5y ago
  > The loss of arts and social sciences would be a catastrophe for the academic world. But a blessing for most students who need a job to pay their student debts after graduation. Sacrificing art students by taking their tuition knowing no or too few jobs exist is unacceptable. Keeping social sciences and art departments alive should require a source of money that does not create non-dischargeanle student debts and jobless students.
  - alpha_squared 5y ago
    That, to me, sounds like an argument for funding trade schools and raising their status in society so they're considered more often. As I understand it, a university education was never intended to be a gateway to employment, yet it became one as a byproduct of how we as a society talked about it. I was told countless times in adolescence how much of an income gap existed between those with a college degree and those that didn't have one. Software development, for example, very much falls under a trade, else there wouldn't be so many bootcamps that both feed into the industry and simultaneously take advantage of those who don't know better. There's no prestigious trade school that I'm aware of that produces consistently competent software developers. That's just one example, but I'd love to see more trade schools supported and elevated as a path to career employment.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      > There's no prestigious trade school that I'm aware of that produces consistently competent software developers. MIT? At least, it was accused of being a trade school toward the beginning of its history: > These reforms were largely a response to Walker's on-going defense of the Institute and its curriculum from outside accusations of overwork, poor writing, unapplicable skills, and status as a "mere" trade school. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Massachusetts_I... These days, one might think of U Waterloo as filling the role of a prestigious trade school given the focus they put on their co-op program. Which I mean in a positive light, of course.
    - nemo44x 5y ago
- jeffy90 5y ago
  I agree with you, but I do think it really is a problem that students disproportionately choose the "useless" degrees rather than STEM fields. I anecdotally know of many who in hindsight wish they had studied computer science or something more employable.
- summm 5y ago
  I would agree if the choice was binary. But it isn't. Many alumni of arts and humanities later go into professions that are not only useless, buy actually harmful to society, while not contributing to actual art and culture: Advertising, Marketing...
  - deleted 5y ago
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deleted 5y ago
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KorematsuFred 5y ago
The demand for subsidization of college education is coming from very woke academics who want more taxpayer money for their "woke programs". College education in USA is ridiculously cheap if you are not looking at top colleges. Plenty of universities in silicon valley which can give you a wide array of useful degrees for very affordable price. Affordable = You can pay your student loans within 2 years of gainful employment post degree.
bnralt 5y ago
Personally, I found both STEM and social science classes at University to be fairly useless. I went back and took STEM classes in an area I had self-studied, based on the amount of people who claimed that people who self-study miss a lot. I didn't find that to be the case at all, and was surprised at how much the classes felt like a waste of time. Going back when I was older, I was also very curious about the education system in general and would often survey my classmates to see how much they were retaining semester to semester. The results weren't great. I should add, this was at a University that ranks fairly highly (top 20 or so) in this area. The market might demand someone with experience in a certain field, but that doesn't mean that college is a useful way of preparing them for it. Likewise, with the humanities I've learned much more outside of the University setting than inside of it. I never delved into primary sources or academic papers when I was an undergraduate, but often do both now that I'm out (as a hobby, not for work). I would say that I knew almost nothing about historiography coming out of college, and almost all my knowledge of it is from self-study after graduation. People talk about the importance of discussions, but discussion groups I've had outside of university have been much more fruitful than inside - a group of people with ages ranging from teens to retirees, who've had a variety of life experiences and come from different countries is going to be a more varied discussion in my experience than a group of 19 year old college students. I think people really have to start discussing what goals we're actually trying to achieve, if college is the best way of achieving, and what other alternatives might be available. In my experience, the college system is a pretty poor system that has survived as long as it has because of inertia.

alpha_squared 5y ago

> useless gender studies degrees. I don't know why this is such a pervasive perspective, but it's really sad. This same logic extends to philosophy, theater, arts, psychology, sociology, and so many other disciplines. At which point, you're really just left with STEM, which seems to hint the preference is for trade schools (which do exist, but aren't favored). The loss of arts and social sciences would be a catastrophe for the academic world.

rbanffy 5y ago
> The loss of arts and social sciences would be a catastrophe for the academic world. But we need poor people to operate the machinery. They shouldn't be allowed to dream, write poetry, or do anything that we consider frivolous. The frivolous things are for the privileged to do. Sorry. My sarcasm couldn't be contained.
- newfriend 5y ago
  They are free to do what they want. Forcing me to pay for them to do it is another matter.
  - genewitch 5y ago
    >let them eat cake
  - LocalH 5y ago
    You're already forced to pay for many things that you may not even know about. Do you know where every single dollar of your tax money goes?
jknz 5y ago
> The loss of arts and social sciences would be a catastrophe for the academic world. But a blessing for most students who need a job to pay their student debts after graduation. Sacrificing art students by taking their tuition knowing no or too few jobs exist is unacceptable. Keeping social sciences and art departments alive should require a source of money that does not create non-dischargeanle student debts and jobless students.
- alpha_squared 5y ago
  That, to me, sounds like an argument for funding trade schools and raising their status in society so they're considered more often. As I understand it, a university education was never intended to be a gateway to employment, yet it became one as a byproduct of how we as a society talked about it. I was told countless times in adolescence how much of an income gap existed between those with a college degree and those that didn't have one. Software development, for example, very much falls under a trade, else there wouldn't be so many bootcamps that both feed into the industry and simultaneously take advantage of those who don't know better. There's no prestigious trade school that I'm aware of that produces consistently competent software developers. That's just one example, but I'd love to see more trade schools supported and elevated as a path to career employment.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > There's no prestigious trade school that I'm aware of that produces consistently competent software developers. MIT? At least, it was accused of being a trade school toward the beginning of its history: > These reforms were largely a response to Walker's on-going defense of the Institute and its curriculum from outside accusations of overwork, poor writing, unapplicable skills, and status as a "mere" trade school. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Massachusetts_I... These days, one might think of U Waterloo as filling the role of a prestigious trade school given the focus they put on their co-op program. Which I mean in a positive light, of course.
  - nemo44x 5y ago
jeffy90 5y ago
I agree with you, but I do think it really is a problem that students disproportionately choose the "useless" degrees rather than STEM fields. I anecdotally know of many who in hindsight wish they had studied computer science or something more employable.
summm 5y ago
I would agree if the choice was binary. But it isn't. Many alumni of arts and humanities later go into professions that are not only useless, buy actually harmful to society, while not contributing to actual art and culture: Advertising, Marketing...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

KorematsuFred 5y ago

The demand for subsidization of college education is coming from very woke academics who want more taxpayer money for their "woke programs". College education in USA is ridiculously cheap if you are not looking at top colleges. Plenty of universities in silicon valley which can give you a wide array of useful degrees for very affordable price. Affordable = You can pay your student loans within 2 years of gainful employment post degree.

bnralt 5y ago

Personally, I found both STEM and social science classes at University to be fairly useless. I went back and took STEM classes in an area I had self-studied, based on the amount of people who claimed that people who self-study miss a lot. I didn't find that to be the case at all, and was surprised at how much the classes felt like a waste of time. Going back when I was older, I was also very curious about the education system in general and would often survey my classmates to see how much they were retaining semester to semester. The results weren't great. I should add, this was at a University that ranks fairly highly (top 20 or so) in this area. The market might demand someone with experience in a certain field, but that doesn't mean that college is a useful way of preparing them for it. Likewise, with the humanities I've learned much more outside of the University setting than inside of it. I never delved into primary sources or academic papers when I was an undergraduate, but often do both now that I'm out (as a hobby, not for work). I would say that I knew almost nothing about historiography coming out of college, and almost all my knowledge of it is from self-study after graduation. People talk about the importance of discussions, but discussion groups I've had outside of university have been much more fruitful than inside - a group of people with ages ranging from teens to retirees, who've had a variety of life experiences and come from different countries is going to be a more varied discussion in my experience than a group of 19 year old college students. I think people really have to start discussing what goals we're actually trying to achieve, if college is the best way of achieving, and what other alternatives might be available. In my experience, the college system is a pretty poor system that has survived as long as it has because of inertia.