5 ms·

I had a fun situation where my university lecturer told me "Myself and other lecturers also work at the local community college teaching the same subjects, it c

I had a fun situation where my university lecturer told me "Myself and other lecturers also work at the local community college teaching the same subjects, it costs $100 per semester there and you can transfer the credit across." So for at least the first year of university i spent almost nothing on tuition. Which was nice for someone who was really struggling back then.

thebean11 5y ago
I discovered the strategy of testing out of subjects at the community college then transferring the credit to my university. This worked for many courses for which the university offered no credit by exam.
- Enginerrrd 5y ago
  I've never understood why I encountered so much resistance to the concept of testing out of subjects during my academic career. I would have even paid for the units, I just didn't get why department heads were so opposed.
  - owly 5y ago
    Yeah. I was lucky enough to have one department head who agreed to testing out and was able to bypass two required courses. It doesn’t make much sense to require courses which the student has already mastered. Only reason is $$$.
    - mixmastamyk 5y ago
      How do you negotiate this? Go talk during some posted office hours? Beginning of semester?
  - macksd 5y ago
    It destroys the idea that you can only get an education that meets their standards from their teaching.
    - thebean11 5y ago
      To be fair, these were very much entry level classes unrelated to my major. I wasn't testing out of linear algebra or something.
  - xmprt 5y ago
    In my experience, I've always learned a lot more during the class than was tested on the exam (except for intro classes). I'd personally prefer easier exams but harder assignments and projects that allow for some collaboration. If you were allowed to test out of classes then the exams would need to be made a lot harder so it includes all the material you should have learned if you took the class.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - csa 5y ago
    The main reason, imho, is because the tests are generally bad, and the folks in charge aren’t quite sure what to do about it. There is quite a bit of stuff that one can learn in a class that might not show up on a test. A few examples: 1. Certain small subject matter specifics that may not be measured on a relatively short timed test. 2. Discovering peer groups to study with. 3. The test structure at the university/department — some smart people get bombed early in their academic careers just because they aren’t familiar with the test type. A well-structured series of courses can be built out assuming that each student in later courses has at least been exposed to certain ideas in earlier courses. If you test out, there is no guarantee that these learners have been exposed to those ideas. Yes, a better test could reveal all of this stuff, but making good tests or test banks is difficult and time consuming, and that assumes that there is some expertise in evaluation/testing in the department faculty (which is rare).
    - minsc__and__boo 5y ago
      This conversation highlights the dichotomy of higher education in the U.S. You're describing the quality of an education, while the previous commenters are describing how to game a title system to get the best brand. These are two different goals/outcomes.
    - vlovich123 5y ago
      I got by cramming for most exams & attended maybe a handful of classes a year. I did graded assignments but not homework. If my university is comfortable handing me an accredited degree in that situation, I would expect it to feel comfortable providing a path to test out.
  - wccrawford 5y ago
    I encountered this, too. In my case, the teacher "forgot" to give me the final for one of them, and only gave me the mid-term. Months later, they "discovered" that and made me take it then to keep my credit. I said, "Give me the test right now." I took it, passed with flying colors. They still didn't look happy. I'm still half-convinced they were trying to trip me up. Their classes were the easiest I have ever taken and I got a 4.0 GPA there. I knew I was just going for the paper, though, so it didn't bother me. Joke's on me. That paper has never actually helped me get a job. sigh
    - handrous 5y ago
      > Joke's on me. That paper has never actually helped me get a job. sigh Knowing that, in an interview, I won't be asked why I don't have a degree, has been at least 90% of the value of mine.
      - neoromantique 5y ago
        It might vary by region, but here in Europe I haven't been asked that ever in my 7 years in IT. I don't even have "Education" paragraph in my resume, just skills and experience.
  - abruzzi 5y ago
    The university I went to had an option for the required math course that all students had to take--there was one "self paced" version of the class you could select. You did eveything yourself, and took all the tests for the class at your own pace. You still had to take about 6 or so tests, but you could use it to "test out." I'm not great at math, but this was basic algebra. I took all 6 tests in a row in a single day, and passed the class.
clairity 5y ago
yah, note that a $3-5K extension course at UCLA costs ~$300 (including registration and books!) at LACC and is often taught by the same part-time lecturer(s). it’s pretty clever geographic price discrimination though: expensive for rich westsiders who don’t wanna travel much past the 405 and cheap for the working class folk mid-city.
- jhart99 5y ago
  You could just go down the 10 to Santa Monica community college though even if you didn't want to travel. I think the extension is more about someone putting 'UCLA' on a resume or job application.
  - clairity 5y ago
    yes, SMCC is a good alternative on the westside, and yes, UCLA still has a price discrimination advantage due to its brand prestige (but 10× seems crazy to me).
chrisseaton 5y ago
Isn't being a university lecturer a full-time job? How can they also be lecturing at another college?
- kevinventullo 5y ago
  In general, no. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjunct_professor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjunct_professor
- stonemetal12 5y ago
  It used to be, but has been trending away from that for a while.
- AnotherGoodName 5y ago
  They almost all have a second job. >A 2015 survey found that 62 percent of adjuncts earned less than $20,000 a year. https://economichardship.org/2019/03/a-bigger-scandal-at-colleges-underpaid-professors/ https://economichardship.org/2019/03/a-bigger-scandal-at-col...
- IggleSniggle 5y ago
  Sadly, in the US, even the “tenure track” full-time professors are seldom full-time lectures. Their most valued contributions are: - obtaining research grants - department administration - image management They also sometimes teach courses, but more often than not, that duty can be given to a combination of adjunct professors and “graduate teaching assistants,” ie doctoral students. Much of it I’m okay with organizationally except for the money/workload balance. It’s a race to the bottom to overwork and underpay for teaching duties.
2ion 5y ago
...they do that because they university pays a pittance. No choice but to have as many jobs as doable, as lecturers get paid by the course unit and not a wage.
Salgat 5y ago
Community College was the best decision I ever made. Not only did it cost next to nothing, relieving a massive amount of financial pressure, but it took me, a mediocre high school student, and gave me the time and training necessary to build study habits and grades that allowed me to transfer to one of the top engineering schools in the country. The only downside of Community College is that it is not the same "college experience" that you get with University, which I can understand is huge for many. I did to an extent make up for it my junior and senior year after I transferred, but it's not the same.
- pbronez 5y ago
  True, but that’s probably an upside. The “freshman experience” is many things, but it’s NOT an easy environment to learn basic study skills if you missed that in high school.
- IggleSniggle 5y ago
  FWIW, I had that college experience, and it was fun, but definitely not worth the cost of admission. On the other hand, junior/senior year at college was fantastic and really formative. So imho you got the best of both worlds.
  - secondaryacct 5y ago
    I think this college experience is really a PR thing. It's what you pay the most for and it is more entertainment than anything else. Most countries' universities seem to work like the community college: it's near your high school, you go there and just study, the dorms for people from other cities are just cheap flat in the surrounding area, and you try to make your campus as small and focused on study as possible. At least that's how it was in France, and my memories or universities are full of technical discoveries, amazing teachers and passionate friends. Not lifestyle changes, but intellectual ones. The drinking games and parties, they stated at 16 and felt not very different at uni, just normal part of youth.
    - IggleSniggle 5y ago

thebean11 5y ago

I discovered the strategy of testing out of subjects at the community college then transferring the credit to my university. This worked for many courses for which the university offered no credit by exam.

Enginerrrd 5y ago
I've never understood why I encountered so much resistance to the concept of testing out of subjects during my academic career. I would have even paid for the units, I just didn't get why department heads were so opposed.
- owly 5y ago
  Yeah. I was lucky enough to have one department head who agreed to testing out and was able to bypass two required courses. It doesn’t make much sense to require courses which the student has already mastered. Only reason is $$$.
  - mixmastamyk 5y ago
    How do you negotiate this? Go talk during some posted office hours? Beginning of semester?
- macksd 5y ago
  It destroys the idea that you can only get an education that meets their standards from their teaching.
  - thebean11 5y ago
    To be fair, these were very much entry level classes unrelated to my major. I wasn't testing out of linear algebra or something.
- xmprt 5y ago
  In my experience, I've always learned a lot more during the class than was tested on the exam (except for intro classes). I'd personally prefer easier exams but harder assignments and projects that allow for some collaboration. If you were allowed to test out of classes then the exams would need to be made a lot harder so it includes all the material you should have learned if you took the class.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- csa 5y ago
  The main reason, imho, is because the tests are generally bad, and the folks in charge aren’t quite sure what to do about it. There is quite a bit of stuff that one can learn in a class that might not show up on a test. A few examples: 1. Certain small subject matter specifics that may not be measured on a relatively short timed test. 2. Discovering peer groups to study with. 3. The test structure at the university/department — some smart people get bombed early in their academic careers just because they aren’t familiar with the test type. A well-structured series of courses can be built out assuming that each student in later courses has at least been exposed to certain ideas in earlier courses. If you test out, there is no guarantee that these learners have been exposed to those ideas. Yes, a better test could reveal all of this stuff, but making good tests or test banks is difficult and time consuming, and that assumes that there is some expertise in evaluation/testing in the department faculty (which is rare).
  - minsc__and__boo 5y ago
    This conversation highlights the dichotomy of higher education in the U.S. You're describing the quality of an education, while the previous commenters are describing how to game a title system to get the best brand. These are two different goals/outcomes.
  - vlovich123 5y ago
    I got by cramming for most exams & attended maybe a handful of classes a year. I did graded assignments but not homework. If my university is comfortable handing me an accredited degree in that situation, I would expect it to feel comfortable providing a path to test out.
- wccrawford 5y ago
  I encountered this, too. In my case, the teacher "forgot" to give me the final for one of them, and only gave me the mid-term. Months later, they "discovered" that and made me take it then to keep my credit. I said, "Give me the test right now." I took it, passed with flying colors. They still didn't look happy. I'm still half-convinced they were trying to trip me up. Their classes were the easiest I have ever taken and I got a 4.0 GPA there. I knew I was just going for the paper, though, so it didn't bother me. Joke's on me. That paper has never actually helped me get a job. sigh
  - handrous 5y ago
    > Joke's on me. That paper has never actually helped me get a job. sigh Knowing that, in an interview, I won't be asked why I don't have a degree, has been at least 90% of the value of mine.
    - neoromantique 5y ago
      It might vary by region, but here in Europe I haven't been asked that ever in my 7 years in IT. I don't even have "Education" paragraph in my resume, just skills and experience.
- abruzzi 5y ago
  The university I went to had an option for the required math course that all students had to take--there was one "self paced" version of the class you could select. You did eveything yourself, and took all the tests for the class at your own pace. You still had to take about 6 or so tests, but you could use it to "test out." I'm not great at math, but this was basic algebra. I took all 6 tests in a row in a single day, and passed the class.

clairity 5y ago

yah, note that a $3-5K extension course at UCLA costs ~$300 (including registration and books!) at LACC and is often taught by the same part-time lecturer(s). it’s pretty clever geographic price discrimination though: expensive for rich westsiders who don’t wanna travel much past the 405 and cheap for the working class folk mid-city.

jhart99 5y ago
You could just go down the 10 to Santa Monica community college though even if you didn't want to travel. I think the extension is more about someone putting 'UCLA' on a resume or job application.
- clairity 5y ago
  yes, SMCC is a good alternative on the westside, and yes, UCLA still has a price discrimination advantage due to its brand prestige (but 10× seems crazy to me).

chrisseaton 5y ago

Isn't being a university lecturer a full-time job? How can they also be lecturing at another college?

kevinventullo 5y ago
In general, no. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjunct_professor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjunct_professor
stonemetal12 5y ago
It used to be, but has been trending away from that for a while.
AnotherGoodName 5y ago
They almost all have a second job. >A 2015 survey found that 62 percent of adjuncts earned less than $20,000 a year. https://economichardship.org/2019/03/a-bigger-scandal-at-colleges-underpaid-professors/ https://economichardship.org/2019/03/a-bigger-scandal-at-col...
IggleSniggle 5y ago
Sadly, in the US, even the “tenure track” full-time professors are seldom full-time lectures. Their most valued contributions are: - obtaining research grants - department administration - image management They also sometimes teach courses, but more often than not, that duty can be given to a combination of adjunct professors and “graduate teaching assistants,” ie doctoral students. Much of it I’m okay with organizationally except for the money/workload balance. It’s a race to the bottom to overwork and underpay for teaching duties.

2ion 5y ago

...they do that because they university pays a pittance. No choice but to have as many jobs as doable, as lecturers get paid by the course unit and not a wage.

Salgat 5y ago

Community College was the best decision I ever made. Not only did it cost next to nothing, relieving a massive amount of financial pressure, but it took me, a mediocre high school student, and gave me the time and training necessary to build study habits and grades that allowed me to transfer to one of the top engineering schools in the country. The only downside of Community College is that it is not the same "college experience" that you get with University, which I can understand is huge for many. I did to an extent make up for it my junior and senior year after I transferred, but it's not the same.

pbronez 5y ago
True, but that’s probably an upside. The “freshman experience” is many things, but it’s NOT an easy environment to learn basic study skills if you missed that in high school.
IggleSniggle 5y ago
FWIW, I had that college experience, and it was fun, but definitely not worth the cost of admission. On the other hand, junior/senior year at college was fantastic and really formative. So imho you got the best of both worlds.
- secondaryacct 5y ago
  I think this college experience is really a PR thing. It's what you pay the most for and it is more entertainment than anything else. Most countries' universities seem to work like the community college: it's near your high school, you go there and just study, the dorms for people from other cities are just cheap flat in the surrounding area, and you try to make your campus as small and focused on study as possible. At least that's how it was in France, and my memories or universities are full of technical discoveries, amazing teachers and passionate friends. Not lifestyle changes, but intellectual ones. The drinking games and parties, they stated at 16 and felt not very different at uni, just normal part of youth.
  - IggleSniggle 5y ago