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When dental assisting, it has been challenging to discover how many people have no voluntary control over their own tongues.

lostlogin 5y ago
MRI tech here: I’m surprised how many appear to have no control over their limbs. Please keep still.
- BitterAmethyst 5y ago
  Don't make me contort into an awkward position inside a screaming metal disk then :(
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    When we run it in ‘quiet’ mode it’s so slow and the pictures aren’t as nice. But broadly, yes.
- monitron 5y ago
  On behalf of patients, we're sorry! The first time I had an MRI, my tech told me over the speaker that I was moving around too much. I was really surprised as I'd thought I was staying completely still! I had another one more recently in which I apparently did much better. The trick for me seems to be to focus on my breathing and mental relaxation rather than trying to consciously "hold still."
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    > On behalf of patients, we're sorry! I do try not to be mean - some of my kind don’t!
- amelius 5y ago
  Hint: it's easier to keep limbs still if you can rest them against some rigid part in at least 2 dimensions, and from a comfortable position of the rest of the body. E.g. a hand is easy to keep still if it rests on a mold of a hand (doesn't even need to be the same hand as long as it matches roughly in size). This also provides a reference for the person, so they know where to keep their hand.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    My new favourite is a vacuum bag thing that you out around a limb (or baby) and then suck the air out, leaving a vacuum packed person. Comfort (pillows and blanket), sandbags, sponges, straps, tape, coaxing, as-short-as-reasonable imaging protocols and a good explanation are all standard. It usually isn’t direct movement of the part we are scanning that’s an issue. But things like shuffling hips, stretching arms and wriggling shoulders are a problem when resolution is something like 0.25mm in plane for your foot or knee. We can tie you down but prefer not to.
- kovvy 5y ago
  I had zero problems keeping myself still for an MRI, but I really wished I had picked a more comfortable position. Standing still, now there I have all the problems.
- meowface 5y ago
  I'm surprised that that group apparently also includes me. I had an awful experience during my LASIK procedure. What should've taken a few minutes ended up taking like 40+. It was almost an hour of the doctor and nurses constantly repeating "please keep still", yet from the very start to the very end I was literally making myself as still as possible and from my perspective wasn't moving any part of my body in the slightest. It felt like some Kafkaesque nightmare, being repeatedly told to do something I was certain I was doing the whole time. And also, since it was taking so long, they had to keep restarting the whole thing over and over, including jetting my eye with freezing cold water again and again, which wasn't a pleasant sensation even with the local anesthetic. It was so confusing to me because I just... was not moving and they kept telling me to stop moving. I was neither voluntarily moving myself nor did I feel like any part of me was moving. After it was over, they said my heart was beating so fast/forcefully that I was involuntarily moving around, or my eyes were moving around, or something. (It was years ago and I forget the exact explanation.) I know in theory one has some indirect voluntary control over their heart rate, such as with breathing patterns, but 1) during the entire procedure, they never told me that; they just kept saying "stop moving", and 2) even if they did tell me it probably wouldn't have helped much. I think the only thing that helped was my breathing eventually naturally slowed and my body started relaxing. I had no conscious anxiety or worries going into the procedure, but I guess some part of my "lizard brain" just automatically took over once I was on the table. And probably related to this, I also have a dire case of "white coat syndrome", where the first blood pressure reading I receive at any doctor's office is often unbelievably "go-to-the-hospital-now" high, and then a few minutes later they test it again and it's normal. Again, I have literally no conscious fear of or concerns about doctors, procedures, blood pressure readings, needles, etc., but somehow my autonomic nervous system begs to differ. So, I would guess some of the patients you work with may genuinely be just as surprised as you are when you tell them they're moving.
  - UncleOxidant 5y ago
    Oh, man, that sounds like a nightmare. As someone with a lot of anxiety I was probably never going to do LASIK anyway, but after reading this there's absolutely no way I'd ever even consider it. And yes, when I find myself in an anxious situation I tend to cope with body movement, some of it I'm aware of, others probably not.
- Veen 5y ago
  I discovered something similar when my girlfriend cut my hair during lockdown. Apparently I can't hold my head in the same position for more than 30 seconds. It moves involuntarily no matter how hard I try to keep still.
wantoncl 5y ago
I have very little proprioceptive sense of my tongue, and when I'm at the dentist I have to consciously move it to know where it is. I basically pick a corner away from the dental instrument and touch the tip to that corner. After a minute or so I'll drift back to center and will hardly notice it. I often ask the technician if my tongue is in the way, and they always say it's not, but I'm not sure I believe them. I sometimes have anxiety that if my tongue slips a little bit I'll get injured, and that sure doesn't help. Physiologically, I would imagine that when the mouth is closed, the tactile pressure on the tongue is constant enough that your brain filters it out. When my mouth is open, the tactile pressure is gone, so there's even less sense of location. Without the muscle extension, it's just a blob of jello with no sensation. Hence why I place the tip at a specific corner.
crackercrews 5y ago
When asked to move my tongue to the right or left, I have a roughly 60% success rate. Probably because you don't need to teach your tongue right and left to eat/talk successfully.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  The tongue is sort of on the border. It's part of the digestive tract, which mostly works unconsciously, and when you're chewing you usually don't need to think about your tongue. Yet, you can obviously control it to an extent. People getting dental work are often nervous, and control slips a bit in that situation. I think other sorts of tics are also more common in stress situations.
tzs 5y ago
I had a hard time getting my tongue out of the way when the dentist/assistant/hygienist would say it was in the way until I stopped trying to move it away from wherever it currently was to trying to move it to the opposite side of my mouth from where they were working.

lostlogin 5y ago

MRI tech here: I’m surprised how many appear to have no control over their limbs. Please keep still.

BitterAmethyst 5y ago
Don't make me contort into an awkward position inside a screaming metal disk then :(
- lostlogin 5y ago
  When we run it in ‘quiet’ mode it’s so slow and the pictures aren’t as nice. But broadly, yes.
monitron 5y ago
On behalf of patients, we're sorry! The first time I had an MRI, my tech told me over the speaker that I was moving around too much. I was really surprised as I'd thought I was staying completely still! I had another one more recently in which I apparently did much better. The trick for me seems to be to focus on my breathing and mental relaxation rather than trying to consciously "hold still."
- lostlogin 5y ago
  > On behalf of patients, we're sorry! I do try not to be mean - some of my kind don’t!
amelius 5y ago
Hint: it's easier to keep limbs still if you can rest them against some rigid part in at least 2 dimensions, and from a comfortable position of the rest of the body. E.g. a hand is easy to keep still if it rests on a mold of a hand (doesn't even need to be the same hand as long as it matches roughly in size). This also provides a reference for the person, so they know where to keep their hand.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  My new favourite is a vacuum bag thing that you out around a limb (or baby) and then suck the air out, leaving a vacuum packed person. Comfort (pillows and blanket), sandbags, sponges, straps, tape, coaxing, as-short-as-reasonable imaging protocols and a good explanation are all standard. It usually isn’t direct movement of the part we are scanning that’s an issue. But things like shuffling hips, stretching arms and wriggling shoulders are a problem when resolution is something like 0.25mm in plane for your foot or knee. We can tie you down but prefer not to.
kovvy 5y ago
I had zero problems keeping myself still for an MRI, but I really wished I had picked a more comfortable position. Standing still, now there I have all the problems.
meowface 5y ago
I'm surprised that that group apparently also includes me. I had an awful experience during my LASIK procedure. What should've taken a few minutes ended up taking like 40+. It was almost an hour of the doctor and nurses constantly repeating "please keep still", yet from the very start to the very end I was literally making myself as still as possible and from my perspective wasn't moving any part of my body in the slightest. It felt like some Kafkaesque nightmare, being repeatedly told to do something I was certain I was doing the whole time. And also, since it was taking so long, they had to keep restarting the whole thing over and over, including jetting my eye with freezing cold water again and again, which wasn't a pleasant sensation even with the local anesthetic. It was so confusing to me because I just... was not moving and they kept telling me to stop moving. I was neither voluntarily moving myself nor did I feel like any part of me was moving. After it was over, they said my heart was beating so fast/forcefully that I was involuntarily moving around, or my eyes were moving around, or something. (It was years ago and I forget the exact explanation.) I know in theory one has some indirect voluntary control over their heart rate, such as with breathing patterns, but 1) during the entire procedure, they never told me that; they just kept saying "stop moving", and 2) even if they did tell me it probably wouldn't have helped much. I think the only thing that helped was my breathing eventually naturally slowed and my body started relaxing. I had no conscious anxiety or worries going into the procedure, but I guess some part of my "lizard brain" just automatically took over once I was on the table. And probably related to this, I also have a dire case of "white coat syndrome", where the first blood pressure reading I receive at any doctor's office is often unbelievably "go-to-the-hospital-now" high, and then a few minutes later they test it again and it's normal. Again, I have literally no conscious fear of or concerns about doctors, procedures, blood pressure readings, needles, etc., but somehow my autonomic nervous system begs to differ. So, I would guess some of the patients you work with may genuinely be just as surprised as you are when you tell them they're moving.
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  Oh, man, that sounds like a nightmare. As someone with a lot of anxiety I was probably never going to do LASIK anyway, but after reading this there's absolutely no way I'd ever even consider it. And yes, when I find myself in an anxious situation I tend to cope with body movement, some of it I'm aware of, others probably not.
Veen 5y ago
I discovered something similar when my girlfriend cut my hair during lockdown. Apparently I can't hold my head in the same position for more than 30 seconds. It moves involuntarily no matter how hard I try to keep still.

wantoncl 5y ago

I have very little proprioceptive sense of my tongue, and when I'm at the dentist I have to consciously move it to know where it is. I basically pick a corner away from the dental instrument and touch the tip to that corner. After a minute or so I'll drift back to center and will hardly notice it. I often ask the technician if my tongue is in the way, and they always say it's not, but I'm not sure I believe them. I sometimes have anxiety that if my tongue slips a little bit I'll get injured, and that sure doesn't help. Physiologically, I would imagine that when the mouth is closed, the tactile pressure on the tongue is constant enough that your brain filters it out. When my mouth is open, the tactile pressure is gone, so there's even less sense of location. Without the muscle extension, it's just a blob of jello with no sensation. Hence why I place the tip at a specific corner.

crackercrews 5y ago

When asked to move my tongue to the right or left, I have a roughly 60% success rate. Probably because you don't need to teach your tongue right and left to eat/talk successfully.

jessaustin 5y ago
The tongue is sort of on the border. It's part of the digestive tract, which mostly works unconsciously, and when you're chewing you usually don't need to think about your tongue. Yet, you can obviously control it to an extent. People getting dental work are often nervous, and control slips a bit in that situation. I think other sorts of tics are also more common in stress situations.

tzs 5y ago

I had a hard time getting my tongue out of the way when the dentist/assistant/hygienist would say it was in the way until I stopped trying to move it away from wherever it currently was to trying to move it to the opposite side of my mouth from where they were working.