6 ms·

As a European, I find it quite amusing that religion is so central to american culture, that they even figured out a way to make a christian version of atheism.

jusssi 5y ago
As a fellow European, I feel we have nothing to be amused about. What the church thinks still has excessive weight in lawmaking and people's opinions. Publicly funded schools have "religion" classes where the local mainstream christianity variant is the main content. And the tax authority is still tasked with collecting the "church tax".
- ud_0 5y ago
  In Germany, I was pleasantly surprised that some parties up for election have (regionally) expressed the will to abolish relgion-based studies in public schools. It makes me a bit hopeful, especially since I recently got the impression that young people are skewing more religious again. I have also seen some proposals to abolish the laws currently prohibiting singing and dancing during certain religious holidays.
- haylem 5y ago
  As former resident of several European countries, I find your statement, while not entirely incorrect, a bit too "blanketing". All this may be quite dependent on where you live (the mention of the "church tax" makes me suppose Germany, as they have a Kirchensteuer, but I'm sure other countries must have a similar tax). In any case, there are European countries without church tax, beyond normal taxes that could be used for preservation of historical sites, religious or otherwise (which I agree may be somewhat biased in what religious sites can pretend to be considered historical). Similarly, many countries do not have "religion" classes in "publicly funded schools", especially in countries that are (supposedly or admittedly) laic. That being said, there's also often a bias there as a lot of holidays are tied to religion and Christianity in particular, and it'd be quite common to explain in class the origin and nature of these holidays. I'd hardly think it counts as "religion" class, though, but that'd depend on what the teachers do.
- BongoMcCat 5y ago
  You are right, we Europeans still have more we need to do before we are truly secular. But, I still find this funny.
- Traubenfuchs 5y ago
  ... and religious figures are still invited to discussion about the ethics of voluntary euthanasia. What gives?
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  I think in Germany this is really crying out of boredom. If you want to, you don't have to come in contact with any of it. It was still relevant 30-40 years ago, but not today. Not in any relevant capacity. Other european countries are more laical or secular, but that is pretty much just flavor today. Some eastern countries are more involved, but if you propose the church having relevant influence in central or western Europe, you really slept the last two decades.
dsego 5y ago
How so? Religion is still central in many countries in Europe, eg Croatia, Poland, etc. It's even getting stronger as the populace is leaning more to the right every day. Plenty of religious people in the media here raving against covid vaccines etc.
- rocgf 5y ago
  You're definitely right technically. The problem is that Europe is split up into dozens of countries with very somewhat different values and cultures, so whenever you say "In Europe X happens", then you can always invoke some version of your argument. Europe is France, Netherlands, Albania, Moldova. All of these are very different in various statistics.
  - caymanjim 5y ago
    You can say the same thing about the US. The cultural values of Massachusetts are radically different from the cultural values of Mississippi.
    - ivanhoe 5y ago
      To some degree yes, but mainstream US is still far more culturally uniform from state to state than Europe's countries are. In Europe most of countries are nation-based and as such encapsulate also all the possible differences in ethnicities, languages, culture, religion and history to a much higher degree. Imagine each race/denomination/ethical group in US having their own independent state with their own laws and ways of life, and you get something like Europe.
    - BongoMcCat 5y ago
      But there is still a common language in the us. And national TV-networks with lots of viewers in both those states. Neither of those are true for Europe. I would argue that it is fair to say that the US is more homogeneous than Europe, especially if you are talking about the entire Europe, and not just the EU.

jusssi 5y ago

As a fellow European, I feel we have nothing to be amused about. What the church thinks still has excessive weight in lawmaking and people's opinions. Publicly funded schools have "religion" classes where the local mainstream christianity variant is the main content. And the tax authority is still tasked with collecting the "church tax".

ud_0 5y ago
In Germany, I was pleasantly surprised that some parties up for election have (regionally) expressed the will to abolish relgion-based studies in public schools. It makes me a bit hopeful, especially since I recently got the impression that young people are skewing more religious again. I have also seen some proposals to abolish the laws currently prohibiting singing and dancing during certain religious holidays.
haylem 5y ago
As former resident of several European countries, I find your statement, while not entirely incorrect, a bit too "blanketing". All this may be quite dependent on where you live (the mention of the "church tax" makes me suppose Germany, as they have a Kirchensteuer, but I'm sure other countries must have a similar tax). In any case, there are European countries without church tax, beyond normal taxes that could be used for preservation of historical sites, religious or otherwise (which I agree may be somewhat biased in what religious sites can pretend to be considered historical). Similarly, many countries do not have "religion" classes in "publicly funded schools", especially in countries that are (supposedly or admittedly) laic. That being said, there's also often a bias there as a lot of holidays are tied to religion and Christianity in particular, and it'd be quite common to explain in class the origin and nature of these holidays. I'd hardly think it counts as "religion" class, though, but that'd depend on what the teachers do.
BongoMcCat 5y ago
You are right, we Europeans still have more we need to do before we are truly secular. But, I still find this funny.
Traubenfuchs 5y ago
... and religious figures are still invited to discussion about the ethics of voluntary euthanasia. What gives?
raxxorrax 5y ago
I think in Germany this is really crying out of boredom. If you want to, you don't have to come in contact with any of it. It was still relevant 30-40 years ago, but not today. Not in any relevant capacity. Other european countries are more laical or secular, but that is pretty much just flavor today. Some eastern countries are more involved, but if you propose the church having relevant influence in central or western Europe, you really slept the last two decades.

dsego 5y ago

How so? Religion is still central in many countries in Europe, eg Croatia, Poland, etc. It's even getting stronger as the populace is leaning more to the right every day. Plenty of religious people in the media here raving against covid vaccines etc.

rocgf 5y ago
You're definitely right technically. The problem is that Europe is split up into dozens of countries with very somewhat different values and cultures, so whenever you say "In Europe X happens", then you can always invoke some version of your argument. Europe is France, Netherlands, Albania, Moldova. All of these are very different in various statistics.
- caymanjim 5y ago
  You can say the same thing about the US. The cultural values of Massachusetts are radically different from the cultural values of Mississippi.
  - ivanhoe 5y ago
    To some degree yes, but mainstream US is still far more culturally uniform from state to state than Europe's countries are. In Europe most of countries are nation-based and as such encapsulate also all the possible differences in ethnicities, languages, culture, religion and history to a much higher degree. Imagine each race/denomination/ethical group in US having their own independent state with their own laws and ways of life, and you get something like Europe.
  - BongoMcCat 5y ago
    But there is still a common language in the us. And national TV-networks with lots of viewers in both those states. Neither of those are true for Europe. I would argue that it is fair to say that the US is more homogeneous than Europe, especially if you are talking about the entire Europe, and not just the EU.