4 ms·

I wouldn't say that only the state is capable of helping. Most organizations that help in these situations currently in the US are private, often faith-based, a

I wouldn't say that only the state is capable of helping. Most organizations that help in these situations currently in the US are private, often faith-based, and non-profit. Also to mention... to challenge preconceptions about who's behind this stuff, the current US president (who many would consider "liberal" or "leftist") made great efforts and progress toward locking up lots of people ("tough on crime"), especially minorities, in the past. The last president (who many would consider more to the right of the political spectrum) actually did a lot to reform and fix that, especially for minorities.

KittenInABox 5y ago
I'd actually be really interested in what reformations could be attributed to the Trump administration when it comes to aspects of the justice system that disproportionately target minorities. I'm not very educated on the subject so I'd love some analysis available for a layman if possible. If not, a specialized analysis is fine and I'll just glean what I can glean.
- nradov 5y ago
  It was primarily the First Step Act, which President Trump signed in 2018. It eliminated some sentencing disparities which had disproportionately targeted minorities. https://www.bop.gov/inmates/fsa/overview.jsp https://www.bop.gov/inmates/fsa/overview.jsp (I'm not taking a position on which president was better or worse on this issue.)
kelnos 5y ago
I think you're giving Trump too much credit. Trump's support of the First Step Act was widely attributed to doing a favor for Kushner, and is seen as an anomaly against his broader "tough on crime" theme, which he doubled down on in the run-up to the 2020 election. (I mean, he literally tweeted "LAW & ORDER!" with no other context several times.) It's hard to take Trump seriously in the realm of criminal justice reform when considering -- for example -- his reaction to the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd. And that's just one example among many. I won't claim that Biden is a saint here, but painting Trump as a criminal justice reformer is a bit absurd. Regardless, incarceration isn't really something that changes a lot based on federal-level action, as federal prisoners account for less than 10% of the prison population (the rest are incarcerated at the state level).
notafraudster 5y ago
The current US president, who anyone that isn't raised on a diet of right-wing talk radio would consider a moderate Democrat (not from the left or progressive wing of the party at all), locked up lots of people in the 1990s, a period where there was general social and political appetite for widespread incarceration. At approximately the same time, a few years earlier, the last president you mention (then a private citizen) was using his money to take out ads in the newspaper calling for the execution of proven innocent black men. Later, after being elected president, that president (who most would consider pretty politically incoherent on traditional ideological divides, and animated almost entirely on the single issue of defending the American ethnic against "others" without and within, and who spent most of his presidency calling for the broader use of violence against perceived criminals, oversaw a record return to federal capital punishment, expanded the use of paramilitary law enforcement, and directly assumed control of law enforcement using loopholes in the executive branch's authority to do so) signed a bipartisan crime reform bill he had nothing to do with at the urging of a reality tv star who is pretending to become a lawyer and who was briefly married to a mentally ill rapper who for some reason endorsed the president. If we're looking to ascribe an ideological dimension to crime politics in the US, it would be easy: during the entire modern party system, Republicans have consistently been to the right of Democrats on crime (even in periods where Democrats have been, in a global sense, to the right of the median). The bulk of major crime bills have been nearly unanimous consent, including both the 1994 Crime bill and the First Step Act, but the contents of those bills have compromises where the right seeks "tougher" provisions and the left seeks more conciliatory provisions. Court politics has been even more obviously partisan. Of the current Supreme Court justices, Thomas and Alito favour obviously expanding the use of capital punishment and view most litigation related to it a liberal plot to undermine the justice system; Breyer and Sotomayor have signalled they believe the constitution more or less mandates abolition. It's a clear as day divide. Most other criminal justice issues have the same dimensions in the courts, and even lower in the circuit courts as well.
- corin_ 5y ago
  > Thomas and Alito favour obviously expanding the use of capital punishment and view most litigation related to it a liberal plot to undermine the justice system Have they talked/written about it being a "liberal plot" or is that just a (quite possibly entirely accurate) description of a belief that would explain their actions without their having come out and said that? I'd be interested to learn more if you have any suggested reading on the current members of the SC (not an area I know a huge amount about).
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Also to mention... to challenge preconceptions about who's behind this stuff, the current US president (who many would consider "liberal" or "leftist") made great efforts and progress toward locking up lots of people ("tough on crime"), especially minorities, in the past. Biden has never been a leftist (not even in the extremely loose sense that the progressive wing of the Democratic Party might be considered “leftist”), he’s always been associated with the centrist/conservative wing of the Party, and that was even more true in the 1990s (when he was involved in the crime legislation you are talking about) then in his post-Senate career (where he has been involved in national campaigns where the centrist faction is weaker within the party than it was in the mid-late 1990s, which were pretty much the peak of its dominance.) > The last president (who many would consider more to the right of the political spectrum) I think “corrupt authoritarian opportunist who seized on a perceived opportunity in the more right-leaning party, and particularly with mobilizing its extremist fringes” than describing Trump actually being ideologically to the right in some kind of coherent way that motivates policy over more immediate calculations of personal gain and opportunism.
Akronymus 5y ago
Didn't he also help making asset forfeiture as bad as it is in the US nowadays?

KittenInABox 5y ago

I'd actually be really interested in what reformations could be attributed to the Trump administration when it comes to aspects of the justice system that disproportionately target minorities. I'm not very educated on the subject so I'd love some analysis available for a layman if possible. If not, a specialized analysis is fine and I'll just glean what I can glean.

nradov 5y ago
It was primarily the First Step Act, which President Trump signed in 2018. It eliminated some sentencing disparities which had disproportionately targeted minorities. https://www.bop.gov/inmates/fsa/overview.jsp https://www.bop.gov/inmates/fsa/overview.jsp (I'm not taking a position on which president was better or worse on this issue.)

kelnos 5y ago

I think you're giving Trump too much credit. Trump's support of the First Step Act was widely attributed to doing a favor for Kushner, and is seen as an anomaly against his broader "tough on crime" theme, which he doubled down on in the run-up to the 2020 election. (I mean, he literally tweeted "LAW & ORDER!" with no other context several times.) It's hard to take Trump seriously in the realm of criminal justice reform when considering -- for example -- his reaction to the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd. And that's just one example among many. I won't claim that Biden is a saint here, but painting Trump as a criminal justice reformer is a bit absurd. Regardless, incarceration isn't really something that changes a lot based on federal-level action, as federal prisoners account for less than 10% of the prison population (the rest are incarcerated at the state level).

notafraudster 5y ago

The current US president, who anyone that isn't raised on a diet of right-wing talk radio would consider a moderate Democrat (not from the left or progressive wing of the party at all), locked up lots of people in the 1990s, a period where there was general social and political appetite for widespread incarceration. At approximately the same time, a few years earlier, the last president you mention (then a private citizen) was using his money to take out ads in the newspaper calling for the execution of proven innocent black men. Later, after being elected president, that president (who most would consider pretty politically incoherent on traditional ideological divides, and animated almost entirely on the single issue of defending the American ethnic against "others" without and within, and who spent most of his presidency calling for the broader use of violence against perceived criminals, oversaw a record return to federal capital punishment, expanded the use of paramilitary law enforcement, and directly assumed control of law enforcement using loopholes in the executive branch's authority to do so) signed a bipartisan crime reform bill he had nothing to do with at the urging of a reality tv star who is pretending to become a lawyer and who was briefly married to a mentally ill rapper who for some reason endorsed the president. If we're looking to ascribe an ideological dimension to crime politics in the US, it would be easy: during the entire modern party system, Republicans have consistently been to the right of Democrats on crime (even in periods where Democrats have been, in a global sense, to the right of the median). The bulk of major crime bills have been nearly unanimous consent, including both the 1994 Crime bill and the First Step Act, but the contents of those bills have compromises where the right seeks "tougher" provisions and the left seeks more conciliatory provisions. Court politics has been even more obviously partisan. Of the current Supreme Court justices, Thomas and Alito favour obviously expanding the use of capital punishment and view most litigation related to it a liberal plot to undermine the justice system; Breyer and Sotomayor have signalled they believe the constitution more or less mandates abolition. It's a clear as day divide. Most other criminal justice issues have the same dimensions in the courts, and even lower in the circuit courts as well.

corin_ 5y ago
> Thomas and Alito favour obviously expanding the use of capital punishment and view most litigation related to it a liberal plot to undermine the justice system Have they talked/written about it being a "liberal plot" or is that just a (quite possibly entirely accurate) description of a belief that would explain their actions without their having come out and said that? I'd be interested to learn more if you have any suggested reading on the current members of the SC (not an area I know a huge amount about).

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Also to mention... to challenge preconceptions about who's behind this stuff, the current US president (who many would consider "liberal" or "leftist") made great efforts and progress toward locking up lots of people ("tough on crime"), especially minorities, in the past. Biden has never been a leftist (not even in the extremely loose sense that the progressive wing of the Democratic Party might be considered “leftist”), he’s always been associated with the centrist/conservative wing of the Party, and that was even more true in the 1990s (when he was involved in the crime legislation you are talking about) then in his post-Senate career (where he has been involved in national campaigns where the centrist faction is weaker within the party than it was in the mid-late 1990s, which were pretty much the peak of its dominance.) > The last president (who many would consider more to the right of the political spectrum) I think “corrupt authoritarian opportunist who seized on a perceived opportunity in the more right-leaning party, and particularly with mobilizing its extremist fringes” than describing Trump actually being ideologically to the right in some kind of coherent way that motivates policy over more immediate calculations of personal gain and opportunism.

Akronymus 5y ago

Didn't he also help making asset forfeiture as bad as it is in the US nowadays?