5 ms·

> Is there a way out of surveillance? Vote with your feet. Divest out of Australia. Make sure there's a brain drain out of the country.

koolba 5y ago
Wouldn’t a brain drain lead to even dumber laws?
- elzbardico 5y ago
  Other kind of dumb laws. Authoritaranism is a special kind of dumbness historically associated with really smart people.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    Authoritarianism is an expression of fear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_personality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_personality disclaimer: I distance myself from the groups currently associated with these schools of thought. I also think the English version of this article is lacks scientific savoir faire. The gender inequality part is empirically and historically wrong. edit: To be honest the whole article is trash, better read it here (Psychological theory): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Fromm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Fromm
- dragonelite 5y ago
  Not the problem anymore for the brains that fled.
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    Kinda weird for the attitude toward governments allegedly violating freedom to be “it’s okay as long as it doesn’t affect me.”
    - dragonelite 5y ago
      Why shouldn't a person exercise their most powerful vote, voting by their feet and exit the system to reintegrate in a different system. Serfs did it in the past when feudalism become to harsh and moved to the cities to make a living. Europeans did it when life became to harsh in Europe and moved to the Americas.
      - tshaddox 5y ago
        Of course one can avoid most domestic laws by moving to another country. My point is that when someone asks for a solution to this problem, I’m assuming they are looking for something to actually help solve the problem in that country, because they’re probably already aware that simply leaving is a viable way out for themselves (if they can afford it).
    - alpaca128 5y ago
      No, it's not okay. But if you can't fix it, why stay in a bad environment?
- moate 5y ago
  At that point, who cares? You live somewhere else, not your problem. That's sorta the whole point of leaving a country for political reasons, you feel it's unfixable and not worth hanging around. It's defeatist and doesn't help the people still in Australia, but it's a valid value judgement.
- maerF0x0 5y ago
  Democracy leads to dumb laws. It's a tyranny of the bottom 51%ile. I say this a little tongue in cheek, but it's a real problem I've yet to understand -- how can an outlier intelligent person thrive in a system that caters to the masses? The masses have an incentive to drain any marginal value out of the intelligent, and have the political power to do so. Edit: @majormajor sorry HN wont let me reply. The reason would be because the bottom 51% have something to gain from extraction. The top 51% however are already superior and dont need to rely on extraction to fulfill their wants/needs. 51% might have been too broad a number, but do you get my drift? Those in the lower intelligence brackets have a lot to gain, but those in the upper intelligence brackets do not have a lot to gain
  - majormajor 5y ago
    Why would the bottom 51% have more influence than the top 51% or the middle 25-76% or whatever other random fraction you pull out of your butt?
    - trutannus 5y ago
      >Why would the bottom 51% have more influence than the top 51% 51 + 51 = 102% The bottom 51% have more influence than the top 49% because one is a majority. There is your answer.
      - AlexandrB 5y ago
        I think you missed the point. By this logic, the top 51% have more influence than the bottom 49% so why isn't GP saying they're the ones driving democracy? As an aside, if you look at the elected representatives of Australia, I suspect you'll find most of them are highly educated.
        hazza_n_dazza 5y ago
        or you might not. some of the highest ministers are country bumpkins catering to the lowest common denominator. the country was however founded by very well educated persons.
maerF0x0 5y ago
> Divest out of Australia. Time to sell AAAU etf, you can't trust a bank if the gov't is corrupt.
- cookie_monsta 5y ago
  If you have been trusting Australian banks I would refer you to the recent Royal Commission: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/apr/20/banking-royal-commission-all-you-need-to-know-so-far https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/apr/20/banki...
jonny_eh 5y ago
Or vote with your… vote. The relative benefit is that it can actually work, in theory at least.
- artursapek 5y ago
  You really think any of what's going on in Australia is the will of the people?
  - bitreality 5y ago
    They have people voting over 3% tax increases and gay marriage, not surveillance. Doesn't matter who you vote for, every party is in favor of increasing their power.
    - jonny_eh 5y ago
      So which country is better in that regard?
    - cookie_monsta 5y ago
      We never had a vote on same sex marriage. It was more a completely optional mail in survey whose results the govt. was completely welcome and within its rights to ignore. On that one, at least, the politicians were too spineless to take a stand.
  - austhrow743 5y ago
    Yes
- SLWW 5y ago
  Theory isn't very useful when something like this comes to the table. How many times has this theory been cheated in the last thousand years? the answer is, a lot
cryptonector 5y ago
Leaving Australia is currently very difficult for Australians in Australia even if they reside abroad. But if one could leave, where should they go to?
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > Leaving Australia is currently very difficult for Australians in Australia Just like Cuba and Eastern Europe when the USSR was still around. Wonder why.
- katbyte 5y ago
  going by the number living and moving to canada/west coast it can't be to hard for those under 35 with the working holiday visa
  - cryptonector 5y ago
    Australians in Australia are not allowed to leave the country they way they were prior to covid. Before, like any other reasonable country, all you needed was a valid passport. Heck, the U.S. doesn't even require that much. But now Australia requires more than just a passport, and to my knowledge that has had the net effect of not letting any Australians out.
    - ahonhn 5y ago
      They've even made it so citizens who reside outside Australia can't easily leave again if they want to temporarily re-enter the country. Previously living overseas was an automatic exemption to the exit ban, but now this must be applied for with proof of overseas residence. As Australian bureaucracy is barely up to the task of organising a chook raffle this is pretty scary. The news articles I've seen give me the impression that the application process is a bit of a dice roll as to whether you get it or not with people re-applying dozens of times over months and no transparency on why their exit permits are rejected. Whether it will be this hard for overseas resident Australians to escape home remains to be seen. As a way of discouraging Aussies abroad from popping back in for a family funeral or holiday and clogging up the quarantine system it seems a rather effective deterrent (stay awhile, stay forever!) but the minister responsible reckons that's not the motivation for the rule, so you have to wonder what they're thinking. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-12/government-defends-new-measures-expats-exemption-to-leave/100371684 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-12/government-defends-ne...

koolba 5y ago

Wouldn’t a brain drain lead to even dumber laws?

elzbardico 5y ago
Other kind of dumb laws. Authoritaranism is a special kind of dumbness historically associated with really smart people.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Authoritarianism is an expression of fear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_personality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_personality disclaimer: I distance myself from the groups currently associated with these schools of thought. I also think the English version of this article is lacks scientific savoir faire. The gender inequality part is empirically and historically wrong. edit: To be honest the whole article is trash, better read it here (Psychological theory): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Fromm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Fromm
dragonelite 5y ago
Not the problem anymore for the brains that fled.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  Kinda weird for the attitude toward governments allegedly violating freedom to be “it’s okay as long as it doesn’t affect me.”
  - dragonelite 5y ago
    Why shouldn't a person exercise their most powerful vote, voting by their feet and exit the system to reintegrate in a different system. Serfs did it in the past when feudalism become to harsh and moved to the cities to make a living. Europeans did it when life became to harsh in Europe and moved to the Americas.
    - tshaddox 5y ago
      Of course one can avoid most domestic laws by moving to another country. My point is that when someone asks for a solution to this problem, I’m assuming they are looking for something to actually help solve the problem in that country, because they’re probably already aware that simply leaving is a viable way out for themselves (if they can afford it).
  - alpaca128 5y ago
    No, it's not okay. But if you can't fix it, why stay in a bad environment?
moate 5y ago
At that point, who cares? You live somewhere else, not your problem. That's sorta the whole point of leaving a country for political reasons, you feel it's unfixable and not worth hanging around. It's defeatist and doesn't help the people still in Australia, but it's a valid value judgement.
maerF0x0 5y ago
Democracy leads to dumb laws. It's a tyranny of the bottom 51%ile. I say this a little tongue in cheek, but it's a real problem I've yet to understand -- how can an outlier intelligent person thrive in a system that caters to the masses? The masses have an incentive to drain any marginal value out of the intelligent, and have the political power to do so. Edit: @majormajor sorry HN wont let me reply. The reason would be because the bottom 51% have something to gain from extraction. The top 51% however are already superior and dont need to rely on extraction to fulfill their wants/needs. 51% might have been too broad a number, but do you get my drift? Those in the lower intelligence brackets have a lot to gain, but those in the upper intelligence brackets do not have a lot to gain
- majormajor 5y ago
  Why would the bottom 51% have more influence than the top 51% or the middle 25-76% or whatever other random fraction you pull out of your butt?
  - trutannus 5y ago
    >Why would the bottom 51% have more influence than the top 51% 51 + 51 = 102% The bottom 51% have more influence than the top 49% because one is a majority. There is your answer.
    - AlexandrB 5y ago
      I think you missed the point. By this logic, the top 51% have more influence than the bottom 49% so why isn't GP saying they're the ones driving democracy? As an aside, if you look at the elected representatives of Australia, I suspect you'll find most of them are highly educated.
      - hazza_n_dazza 5y ago
        or you might not. some of the highest ministers are country bumpkins catering to the lowest common denominator. the country was however founded by very well educated persons.

maerF0x0 5y ago

> Divest out of Australia. Time to sell AAAU etf, you can't trust a bank if the gov't is corrupt.

cookie_monsta 5y ago
If you have been trusting Australian banks I would refer you to the recent Royal Commission: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/apr/20/banking-royal-commission-all-you-need-to-know-so-far https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/apr/20/banki...

jonny_eh 5y ago

Or vote with your… vote. The relative benefit is that it can actually work, in theory at least.

artursapek 5y ago
You really think any of what's going on in Australia is the will of the people?
- bitreality 5y ago
  They have people voting over 3% tax increases and gay marriage, not surveillance. Doesn't matter who you vote for, every party is in favor of increasing their power.
  - jonny_eh 5y ago
    So which country is better in that regard?
  - cookie_monsta 5y ago
    We never had a vote on same sex marriage. It was more a completely optional mail in survey whose results the govt. was completely welcome and within its rights to ignore. On that one, at least, the politicians were too spineless to take a stand.
- austhrow743 5y ago
  Yes
SLWW 5y ago
Theory isn't very useful when something like this comes to the table. How many times has this theory been cheated in the last thousand years? the answer is, a lot

cryptonector 5y ago

Leaving Australia is currently very difficult for Australians in Australia even if they reside abroad. But if one could leave, where should they go to?

908B64B197 5y ago
> Leaving Australia is currently very difficult for Australians in Australia Just like Cuba and Eastern Europe when the USSR was still around. Wonder why.
katbyte 5y ago
going by the number living and moving to canada/west coast it can't be to hard for those under 35 with the working holiday visa
- cryptonector 5y ago
  Australians in Australia are not allowed to leave the country they way they were prior to covid. Before, like any other reasonable country, all you needed was a valid passport. Heck, the U.S. doesn't even require that much. But now Australia requires more than just a passport, and to my knowledge that has had the net effect of not letting any Australians out.
  - ahonhn 5y ago
    They've even made it so citizens who reside outside Australia can't easily leave again if they want to temporarily re-enter the country. Previously living overseas was an automatic exemption to the exit ban, but now this must be applied for with proof of overseas residence. As Australian bureaucracy is barely up to the task of organising a chook raffle this is pretty scary. The news articles I've seen give me the impression that the application process is a bit of a dice roll as to whether you get it or not with people re-applying dozens of times over months and no transparency on why their exit permits are rejected. Whether it will be this hard for overseas resident Australians to escape home remains to be seen. As a way of discouraging Aussies abroad from popping back in for a family funeral or holiday and clogging up the quarantine system it seems a rather effective deterrent (stay awhile, stay forever!) but the minister responsible reckons that's not the motivation for the rule, so you have to wonder what they're thinking. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-12/government-defends-new-measures-expats-exemption-to-leave/100371684 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-12/government-defends-ne...