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The ants arrived on driftwood, it doesn't seem like there was any unnatural cause. By trying to save these seabirds, they are actually messing with nature and

The ants arrived on driftwood, it doesn't seem like there was any unnatural cause. By trying to save these seabirds, they are actually messing with nature and the evolutionary process of the island.

macintux 5y ago
But helping the overall ecosystem of the planet. We’ve made it very difficult for birds and other animals. It’s ok to pick winners when you’ve already broken everything past the point where it’s a healthy planet.
- minsc__and__boo 5y ago
  Especially when you've unnaturally extended out the atoll multiple times, making it easier for the invasive ants to get a foothold in these endangered bird's natural habitat.
- blix 5y ago
  I don't really feel that maintaining the bird population above the plutonium and chemical weapons landfill really moves the needle on the global ecosystem either way. This is a vanity project. If they were serious about the global ecosystem they wouldn't be considering insecticides.
  - xoa 5y ago
    >I don't really feel that maintaining the bird population above the plutonium and chemical weapons landfill really moves the needle on the global ecosystem either way. Oh, you don't feel that way huh? Never mind little details like >"Today more than 5,700 tropicbird pairs nest on the island, or nearly half the estimated global population." Half the global population left! But what is that in the face of your feelings? 6 months of intense brutal lonely activity, volunteered in a hazardous zone with little hope of any outside support, that has been extremely successful, and it's a "vanity project"!? If they were serious!?!? Really :(? I've volunteered for hurricane clean up in terrible totaled mobile parks that were some of the most unpleasant conditions I've ever faced in my life but they were a lot less harsh than this sounds. I got to go home at the end of the day for one. Perhaps if humans hadn't introduced rats and destroyed/taken over habitats for birds worldwide ants sometimes drifting onto an island would be a different thing, but as other comments have said we have. Your comment is upsetting and horribly uncharitable.
    - blix 5y ago
      Human activity currently puts about a million species at risk of extinction [1]. I don't feel picking a few, coincidentally aesthetically pleasing species as winners really moves the needle in terms of the health of the global ecosystem. Aggressively spraying poisons into the environment has decimated insect populations across the globe and, consequently is also thought to threaten bird populations which eat these insects. It is a short-sighted solution. The harshness of the conditions for the humans choosing to do this task really has no bearing whatsoever on the task's impact on the global ecosystem. For someone so critical of feelings, that's quite an emotional appeal you have going there. [1] https://www-nature-com.mines.idm.oclc.org/articles/d41586-019-01448-4 https://www-nature-com.mines.idm.oclc.org/articles/d41586-01...
      - allmskio 5y ago
        Some things can only be saved with insecticide in a remote island. That there are “millions” of other threatened species scattered across the globe with all sorts of micro/macro solutions (or lack thereof), is a nonsequiter. All you seem to be doing is nitpicking a specific small action despite its clearly defined goal and success, when you can’t even be bothered to propose a concrete alternative action that would do better with the same resources. Just vagaries and platitudes like “insecticide bad in general”.
        blix 5y ago
        > Some things can only be saved with insecticide So you can say, with absolute confidence, that no other conceivable solution could ever have been effective? I don't know if I'm that confident about anything. I don't agree with the defined goal or the method; it's more than just a nitpick. My concrete alternative would probably be to do nothing. Or try to mitigate climate change. And insecticides ~are~ bad in general.
        macintux 5y ago
        I think of it like chemo: sometimes you have to use poison to achieve a goal. Apparently this summer they declared victory over the ants.
didibus 5y ago
Technically, we're part of the natural ecosystem as well...
- alangibson 5y ago
  Post-Green revolution that's very debatable. We've developed tech to basically exempt ourselves from natural processes and ecosystems. For now at least...
AlexandrB 5y ago
> Notorious invaders likely native to West Africa or perhaps Asia, crazy ants cross the high seas on driftwood or as stowaways on vessels... It doesn't seem to mention which is the culprit in this case, but it may be an unnatural cause after all - especially given the distance to this island.
renewiltord 5y ago
Yeah but I don’t give a fuck about nature doing natural things. I give a lot of fucks about ensuring that eco diversity is preserved and right now that means hill climbing. I’m okay with local optima because I know mankind survived in one.
OneEyedRobot 5y ago
but birds outrank ants.
BurningFrog 5y ago
Birds are cute. Ants are creepy. This is the current evolutionary force. Over time, all life on Earth will evolve to be cute.

The ants arrived on driftwood, it doesn't seem like there was any unnatural cause. By trying to save these seabirds, they are actually messing with nature and the evolutionary process of the island.

macintux 5y ago

But helping the overall ecosystem of the planet. We’ve made it very difficult for birds and other animals. It’s ok to pick winners when you’ve already broken everything past the point where it’s a healthy planet.

minsc__and__boo 5y ago
Especially when you've unnaturally extended out the atoll multiple times, making it easier for the invasive ants to get a foothold in these endangered bird's natural habitat.
blix 5y ago
I don't really feel that maintaining the bird population above the plutonium and chemical weapons landfill really moves the needle on the global ecosystem either way. This is a vanity project. If they were serious about the global ecosystem they wouldn't be considering insecticides.
- xoa 5y ago
  >I don't really feel that maintaining the bird population above the plutonium and chemical weapons landfill really moves the needle on the global ecosystem either way. Oh, you don't feel that way huh? Never mind little details like >"Today more than 5,700 tropicbird pairs nest on the island, or nearly half the estimated global population." Half the global population left! But what is that in the face of your feelings? 6 months of intense brutal lonely activity, volunteered in a hazardous zone with little hope of any outside support, that has been extremely successful, and it's a "vanity project"!? If they were serious!?!? Really :(? I've volunteered for hurricane clean up in terrible totaled mobile parks that were some of the most unpleasant conditions I've ever faced in my life but they were a lot less harsh than this sounds. I got to go home at the end of the day for one. Perhaps if humans hadn't introduced rats and destroyed/taken over habitats for birds worldwide ants sometimes drifting onto an island would be a different thing, but as other comments have said we have. Your comment is upsetting and horribly uncharitable.
  - blix 5y ago
    Human activity currently puts about a million species at risk of extinction [1]. I don't feel picking a few, coincidentally aesthetically pleasing species as winners really moves the needle in terms of the health of the global ecosystem. Aggressively spraying poisons into the environment has decimated insect populations across the globe and, consequently is also thought to threaten bird populations which eat these insects. It is a short-sighted solution. The harshness of the conditions for the humans choosing to do this task really has no bearing whatsoever on the task's impact on the global ecosystem. For someone so critical of feelings, that's quite an emotional appeal you have going there. [1] https://www-nature-com.mines.idm.oclc.org/articles/d41586-019-01448-4 https://www-nature-com.mines.idm.oclc.org/articles/d41586-01...
    - allmskio 5y ago
      Some things can only be saved with insecticide in a remote island. That there are “millions” of other threatened species scattered across the globe with all sorts of micro/macro solutions (or lack thereof), is a nonsequiter. All you seem to be doing is nitpicking a specific small action despite its clearly defined goal and success, when you can’t even be bothered to propose a concrete alternative action that would do better with the same resources. Just vagaries and platitudes like “insecticide bad in general”.
      - blix 5y ago
        > Some things can only be saved with insecticide So you can say, with absolute confidence, that no other conceivable solution could ever have been effective? I don't know if I'm that confident about anything. I don't agree with the defined goal or the method; it's more than just a nitpick. My concrete alternative would probably be to do nothing. Or try to mitigate climate change. And insecticides ~are~ bad in general.
        macintux 5y ago
        I think of it like chemo: sometimes you have to use poison to achieve a goal. Apparently this summer they declared victory over the ants.

didibus 5y ago

Technically, we're part of the natural ecosystem as well...

alangibson 5y ago
Post-Green revolution that's very debatable. We've developed tech to basically exempt ourselves from natural processes and ecosystems. For now at least...

AlexandrB 5y ago

> Notorious invaders likely native to West Africa or perhaps Asia, crazy ants cross the high seas on driftwood or as stowaways on vessels... It doesn't seem to mention which is the culprit in this case, but it may be an unnatural cause after all - especially given the distance to this island.

renewiltord 5y ago

Yeah but I don’t give a fuck about nature doing natural things. I give a lot of fucks about ensuring that eco diversity is preserved and right now that means hill climbing. I’m okay with local optima because I know mankind survived in one.

OneEyedRobot 5y ago

but birds outrank ants.

BurningFrog 5y ago

Birds are cute. Ants are creepy. This is the current evolutionary force. Over time, all life on Earth will evolve to be cute.