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It's interesting to see that this issue is rather controversial within the Rugby/NFL world, whereas other sports it's almost a given? Boxing, for example, has

It's interesting to see that this issue is rather controversial within the Rugby/NFL world, whereas other sports it's almost a given? Boxing, for example, has pretty damaging long-term side-effects with notable legends dying prematurely. But nobody is really making Hollywood movies about it (like Concussions starring Will Smith). I wonder whether Rugby/NFL is just headed towards the direction of these sort of consequences becoming accepted as being 'part of the sport'.

rapsey 5y ago
Because boxing is a minor sport in comparison. Way to many billions at stake in football and rugby.
- dmurray 5y ago
  Boxing is one of the biggest sports in the world. Rugby is pretty niche.
  - phaemon 5y ago
    That's completely wrong I'm afraid. In terms of popularity (number of fans) Rugby is about as popular as American Football, at around 9th most popular sport. The top two are 1. Association Football (aka soccer), 2. Cricket Boxing doesn't make the top 10.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      The rise of MMA severely damaged the popularity of boxing.
Retric 5y ago
Boxing is somewhat popular to watch, but we don’t have high school boxing with large numbers of participants at most schools. I am fine with adults taking such risks with their own bodies knowing the risks, but it’s another thing when public school teams enter the equation. Replacing full contact high school football with say flag football or soccer would be unpopular, but continuing is an ethically dubious proposition.
- catchmilk 5y ago
  Boxing training starts at a very young age, especially because parents/kids know the kind of money and fame a professional boxer can achieve. That being said, I take your point on it being part of the high school programs. Begs the question on whether parents should be allowed to put their children into sports with long-term effects at all. As other threads mention, this would be hugely unpopular.
  - spywaregorilla 5y ago
    > especially because parents/kids know the kind of money and fame a professional boxer can achieve. Oh come on. Even among professional sports boxing seems incredibly unlikely to pay off as a career move.
    - FredPret 5y ago
      There are a lot of dreamers out there
    - diehunde 5y ago
      True. Olympic medallist Tony Jeffries made a video about this a couple of days ago[1]. Even if you become pro, chances are you won't be making any significant money. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiqJh0oG9dM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiqJh0oG9dM
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      But since probably 100x times as many kids play basketball or football than box, your odds are probably similar. Also, I'd counter-intuitively bet that careers in boxing (when found) are longer lasting than in pro football. Pro football players get very moderate money for what tends to be extremely short careers that leave a lot of damage. My grandfather couldn't walk for the last 10 years of his life from football damage to his knees he picked up 60 years before.
      - JakeTheAndroid 5y ago
sp332 5y ago
I think no one made a movie about it because we already know. The Will Smith movie was all about people resisting and denying the idea in football.
wil421 5y ago
Years go UFC advocates would state it was much safer than boxing because you’d get knocked out easier and wouldn’t go round after round getting repeatedly knocked in the head. Not sure if the argument was valid but time will tell.
- blunte 5y ago
  What did they say about being kicked in the head multiple times? Being hit by a car is not so bad as being hit by a bus. You still want neither.
  - spywaregorilla 5y ago
    I suspect being kicked in the head once is going to do a lot more damage than being punched 20 times personally.
    - mastazi 5y ago
      My intuition is that many less powerful strikes are worse for your health than one very powerful one. But I'm not a doctor and that's just a wild guess. I would like to see some studies about this.
    - yonaguska 5y ago
      It's also a lot less likely that you'll get kicked in the head though. Successfully getting a head kick off on someone is hard, especially when they are allowed to tackle and grapple. Doubly so since you can't do various strikes against someone's head once they have three points of contact with the ground. No knees or kicks to the head when down like the early UFC days.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      I think the ratio of kicks to the head in the mean MMA bout and punches to the head in the mean boxing match is a lot more than 1:20; probably closer to 1:500.
  - mastazi 5y ago
SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
Yes, the perceived risk profiles regarding head injury are different between the two sports of "grab the ball and run" and "punch him in the head".
Igelau 5y ago
Requiem for a Heavyweight (1962) takes a pretty good look at that. It has a neat POV segment at the beginning that shows a fight with Cassius Clay through the eyes of the main character. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056406/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056406/ And well... there's also Rocky V...
antasvara 5y ago
My theory is that boxing's effects are clear and obvious, whereas football and rugby have portrayed themselves as more safe in the past. The NFL spent years keeping CTE research down to prevent people seeing their concussion issues, where boxing literally has people getting knocked out in the ring. People tend to be more accepting of sports when they own their issues and cater to their specific viewers. People who have a problem with concussions and violence just don't watch boxing, so boxing doesn't have to pretend that head injuries aren't an issue. They may not publicize the CTE aspect of the sport, but I don't think they're hiding from it to the same extent as rugby and the NFL. As an aside, I will point out that MMA has mandatory medical suspensions in place after fights that are usually longer than the average football player's stay in the concussion protocol. That's not to say that MMA is better for your head (because it most likely isn't), just that the sport recognizes that concussions are an issue, and that the only thing that fixes them is time.
- hirvi74 5y ago
  CTE is a complex disorder. It started off being linked to concussions, then linked to untold amounts "sub-concussive" blows over many years (even without a diagnosed concussion)[1], to to now being debated as to whether it's a real, distinct disease[2][3]. We're talking about a disease that is somewhat similar to many other diseases of the brain, that much like Alzheimers, cannot even be diagnosed in living people yet. Not playing sports doesn't guarantee one safety from whatever CTE is either [4]. I'm no medical professional, but this is a topic near and dear to me. I've done quite a bit of research and talked with medical professionals about it. It's really an "up in the air" kind of thing, in my opinion. I will say that the average person and the media seem to think it's a much bigger deal than the medical professionals I have spoken with (all of which do research in this area at one of the top 20 hospitals in the US (Vanderbilt)). Who is right? I fear only time will only tell. I do think more steps need to be taken to make sports safer. Whether or not CTE, concussions, head trauma, etc. is as bad the media claims is debatable, but I cannot see any of it being a "good" thing either. [1] https://www.bu.edu/cte/about/frequently-asked-questions/ https://www.bu.edu/cte/about/frequently-asked-questions/ [2] https://journals.lww.com/acsm-csmr/Fulltext/2014/01000/Is_Chronic_Traumatic_Encephalopathy_a_Real.10.aspx https://journals.lww.com/acsm-csmr/Fulltext/2014/01000/Is_Ch... [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30169776/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30169776/ [4] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190620153548.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190620153548.h...

rapsey 5y ago

Because boxing is a minor sport in comparison. Way to many billions at stake in football and rugby.

dmurray 5y ago
Boxing is one of the biggest sports in the world. Rugby is pretty niche.
- phaemon 5y ago
  That's completely wrong I'm afraid. In terms of popularity (number of fans) Rugby is about as popular as American Football, at around 9th most popular sport. The top two are 1. Association Football (aka soccer), 2. Cricket Boxing doesn't make the top 10.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    The rise of MMA severely damaged the popularity of boxing.

Retric 5y ago

Boxing is somewhat popular to watch, but we don’t have high school boxing with large numbers of participants at most schools. I am fine with adults taking such risks with their own bodies knowing the risks, but it’s another thing when public school teams enter the equation. Replacing full contact high school football with say flag football or soccer would be unpopular, but continuing is an ethically dubious proposition.

catchmilk 5y ago
Boxing training starts at a very young age, especially because parents/kids know the kind of money and fame a professional boxer can achieve. That being said, I take your point on it being part of the high school programs. Begs the question on whether parents should be allowed to put their children into sports with long-term effects at all. As other threads mention, this would be hugely unpopular.
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  > especially because parents/kids know the kind of money and fame a professional boxer can achieve. Oh come on. Even among professional sports boxing seems incredibly unlikely to pay off as a career move.
  - FredPret 5y ago
    There are a lot of dreamers out there
  - diehunde 5y ago
    True. Olympic medallist Tony Jeffries made a video about this a couple of days ago[1]. Even if you become pro, chances are you won't be making any significant money. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiqJh0oG9dM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiqJh0oG9dM
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    But since probably 100x times as many kids play basketball or football than box, your odds are probably similar. Also, I'd counter-intuitively bet that careers in boxing (when found) are longer lasting than in pro football. Pro football players get very moderate money for what tends to be extremely short careers that leave a lot of damage. My grandfather couldn't walk for the last 10 years of his life from football damage to his knees he picked up 60 years before.
    - JakeTheAndroid 5y ago

sp332 5y ago

I think no one made a movie about it because we already know. The Will Smith movie was all about people resisting and denying the idea in football.

wil421 5y ago

Years go UFC advocates would state it was much safer than boxing because you’d get knocked out easier and wouldn’t go round after round getting repeatedly knocked in the head. Not sure if the argument was valid but time will tell.

blunte 5y ago
What did they say about being kicked in the head multiple times? Being hit by a car is not so bad as being hit by a bus. You still want neither.
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  I suspect being kicked in the head once is going to do a lot more damage than being punched 20 times personally.
  - mastazi 5y ago
    My intuition is that many less powerful strikes are worse for your health than one very powerful one. But I'm not a doctor and that's just a wild guess. I would like to see some studies about this.
  - yonaguska 5y ago
    It's also a lot less likely that you'll get kicked in the head though. Successfully getting a head kick off on someone is hard, especially when they are allowed to tackle and grapple. Doubly so since you can't do various strikes against someone's head once they have three points of contact with the ground. No knees or kicks to the head when down like the early UFC days.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    I think the ratio of kicks to the head in the mean MMA bout and punches to the head in the mean boxing match is a lot more than 1:20; probably closer to 1:500.
- mastazi 5y ago

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago

Yes, the perceived risk profiles regarding head injury are different between the two sports of "grab the ball and run" and "punch him in the head".

Igelau 5y ago

Requiem for a Heavyweight (1962) takes a pretty good look at that. It has a neat POV segment at the beginning that shows a fight with Cassius Clay through the eyes of the main character. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056406/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056406/ And well... there's also Rocky V...

antasvara 5y ago

My theory is that boxing's effects are clear and obvious, whereas football and rugby have portrayed themselves as more safe in the past. The NFL spent years keeping CTE research down to prevent people seeing their concussion issues, where boxing literally has people getting knocked out in the ring. People tend to be more accepting of sports when they own their issues and cater to their specific viewers. People who have a problem with concussions and violence just don't watch boxing, so boxing doesn't have to pretend that head injuries aren't an issue. They may not publicize the CTE aspect of the sport, but I don't think they're hiding from it to the same extent as rugby and the NFL. As an aside, I will point out that MMA has mandatory medical suspensions in place after fights that are usually longer than the average football player's stay in the concussion protocol. That's not to say that MMA is better for your head (because it most likely isn't), just that the sport recognizes that concussions are an issue, and that the only thing that fixes them is time.

hirvi74 5y ago
CTE is a complex disorder. It started off being linked to concussions, then linked to untold amounts "sub-concussive" blows over many years (even without a diagnosed concussion)[1], to to now being debated as to whether it's a real, distinct disease[2][3]. We're talking about a disease that is somewhat similar to many other diseases of the brain, that much like Alzheimers, cannot even be diagnosed in living people yet. Not playing sports doesn't guarantee one safety from whatever CTE is either [4]. I'm no medical professional, but this is a topic near and dear to me. I've done quite a bit of research and talked with medical professionals about it. It's really an "up in the air" kind of thing, in my opinion. I will say that the average person and the media seem to think it's a much bigger deal than the medical professionals I have spoken with (all of which do research in this area at one of the top 20 hospitals in the US (Vanderbilt)). Who is right? I fear only time will only tell. I do think more steps need to be taken to make sports safer. Whether or not CTE, concussions, head trauma, etc. is as bad the media claims is debatable, but I cannot see any of it being a "good" thing either. [1] https://www.bu.edu/cte/about/frequently-asked-questions/ https://www.bu.edu/cte/about/frequently-asked-questions/ [2] https://journals.lww.com/acsm-csmr/Fulltext/2014/01000/Is_Chronic_Traumatic_Encephalopathy_a_Real.10.aspx https://journals.lww.com/acsm-csmr/Fulltext/2014/01000/Is_Ch... [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30169776/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30169776/ [4] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190620153548.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190620153548.h...