7 ms·

I don’t understand your response. A union’s primary purpose is for advocating for the rights, working conditions, and pay for it’s members. That teachers’ uni

by syops 5y ago

I don’t understand your response. A union’s primary purpose is for advocating for the rights, working conditions, and pay for it’s members. That teachers’ unions often times advocate for making things better for their students in the form of supporting school lunch programs, universal healthcare, increased mental health resources for kids, etc. is because members generally care about those we teach. In the end it doesn’t matter what you or I think. The members of the union have a right to advocate for what they want to advocate for. They have free speech rights too.

angelzen 5y ago
It is a difficult subject to tackle, here's a second attempt: If there was school choice, sure, go advocate for whatever political cause you want. To the extent that the public is forced to pay taxes for public schools, the public has a right to be concerned when the teacher union veers into territory that is beyond a reasonable purview. The union priorities are telling: * High: Negotiate pay and benefits for the union. Reasonable in principle, but less reasonable when the union bankrolls the politicians that signoff the paychecks. * High: Naked political campaigns outside the professional scope of teaching. This is crass: union members joined the union for the pay and benefits negotiator role. Now some are forced to (tacitly) support political causes against their conscience. This is further crass because sooner or later it leaks into the classroom, and teachers should strive for a political neutral stance, not for classroom political indoctrination. * Low: Figure out how to improve kids educational attainment, which is the #1 reason people hire teachers. Teach Jonny how to read. For politics, join a political organization, don't drag the professional union into politics.
- syops 5y ago
  I suppose you don’t think constitutionally protected free speech rights apply to unions. Are you at least consistent and want to ban lobbying efforts by corporations? The leaders of corporations can join a political organization. Are you consistent and decry the fact that stockholders have to accept that the company they hold stock in can advocate for things they don’t like? Union members have a right to have the portion of their dues spent on political advocacy refunded to them. Stockholders have no such similar rights. Have you been in the classroom as a teacher? I’ve been teaching for over 20 years. I’m glad my Union advocates for social justice because I’m tired of students using student loans as a means of welfare. I’m tired of sick students not being able to afford healthcare and remain sick. I’m tired of dealing with students who have to work full time jobs to support themselves and can’t devote enough time for school. I’m tired of dealing with hunger, transportation problems, etc. But it doesn’t matter what you or I think. Unions have free speech rights and can advocate for things you don’t like. Get organized and fight for your position. There are lots of checks on unions and what unions spend on politics is nothing compared to the monied interests opposed to us.
  - nradov 5y ago
    Constitutionally protected free speech rights apply to unions. However public employee unions shouldn't be allowed to collectively bargain with governments over employment terms. And public employees shouldn't be required to contribute money to a particular union as a condition of employment. Those are merely statutory issues that don't involve Constitutional rights. Public employees who want to advocate for political change can do so the same as any other citizen by working with their elected officials, making financial contributions, and voluntarily joining advocacy organizations.
    - syops 5y ago
      Your knowledge regarding union membership is outdated. No one can be forced to join a Union and no one can be forced to even pay for collective bargaining that they benefit from.

by syops 5y ago

angelzen 5y ago

It is a difficult subject to tackle, here's a second attempt: If there was school choice, sure, go advocate for whatever political cause you want. To the extent that the public is forced to pay taxes for public schools, the public has a right to be concerned when the teacher union veers into territory that is beyond a reasonable purview. The union priorities are telling: * High: Negotiate pay and benefits for the union. Reasonable in principle, but less reasonable when the union bankrolls the politicians that signoff the paychecks. * High: Naked political campaigns outside the professional scope of teaching. This is crass: union members joined the union for the pay and benefits negotiator role. Now some are forced to (tacitly) support political causes against their conscience. This is further crass because sooner or later it leaks into the classroom, and teachers should strive for a political neutral stance, not for classroom political indoctrination. * Low: Figure out how to improve kids educational attainment, which is the #1 reason people hire teachers. Teach Jonny how to read. For politics, join a political organization, don't drag the professional union into politics.

syops 5y ago
I suppose you don’t think constitutionally protected free speech rights apply to unions. Are you at least consistent and want to ban lobbying efforts by corporations? The leaders of corporations can join a political organization. Are you consistent and decry the fact that stockholders have to accept that the company they hold stock in can advocate for things they don’t like? Union members have a right to have the portion of their dues spent on political advocacy refunded to them. Stockholders have no such similar rights. Have you been in the classroom as a teacher? I’ve been teaching for over 20 years. I’m glad my Union advocates for social justice because I’m tired of students using student loans as a means of welfare. I’m tired of sick students not being able to afford healthcare and remain sick. I’m tired of dealing with students who have to work full time jobs to support themselves and can’t devote enough time for school. I’m tired of dealing with hunger, transportation problems, etc. But it doesn’t matter what you or I think. Unions have free speech rights and can advocate for things you don’t like. Get organized and fight for your position. There are lots of checks on unions and what unions spend on politics is nothing compared to the monied interests opposed to us.
- nradov 5y ago
  Constitutionally protected free speech rights apply to unions. However public employee unions shouldn't be allowed to collectively bargain with governments over employment terms. And public employees shouldn't be required to contribute money to a particular union as a condition of employment. Those are merely statutory issues that don't involve Constitutional rights. Public employees who want to advocate for political change can do so the same as any other citizen by working with their elected officials, making financial contributions, and voluntarily joining advocacy organizations.
  - syops 5y ago
    Your knowledge regarding union membership is outdated. No one can be forced to join a Union and no one can be forced to even pay for collective bargaining that they benefit from.