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Chocolat - the new editor
- thedeuce 15y agoanother editor thats not open sores and will try and charge me 50$ with promises of future versions and updates that never deliver?
- tony_landis 15y agoNo vim mode support?
- olsonjeffery 15y agoThis is the programmer/IDE-dweeb's version of "well yeah.. but does it run Linux?" Only half joking; the parent's comment is exactly what I thought after searching through the feature list. It's funny how, when forced to work outside of vim, the first thing I (and at least one other person, it would seem) do is try to make the environment as vim-like as possible (with usually-mixed-to-unsatisfactory results). Eclipse and Visual Studio are the only IDEs I can think of that, outside of The True Vim, support the "vim-like" editing paragidm with any robustness (viemu on VS2008 ($), vsvim on VS2010(free-as-in-beer).. I forget the name of Eclipse's premiere VS plugin.. but I know it's in the gallery.. there's also the "embed a vim window in Eclipse" thing, but I found it somewhat ackward). MonoDevelop has a core-support vim plugin, as well, but it's not-quite-there, yet (as of 2.6). Anyone else have any preferred "not-vim-but-vim-like" editors, when forced to work outside of The Better IDE? (And I don't want to hear that viper-mode shit, either. It's a False Vim and you know it.. like the snake that tempted Adam and Eve into Sin!).
- strangetimes 15y agoWhoa! Thanks for the heads-up on VsVim. I'll be installing that tomorrow. http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/59ca71b3-a4a3-46ca-8fe1-0e90e3f79329 http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/59ca71b3-a4a3-...
- bmj 15y agoI use VsVim on a daily basis, and really like it, but I've also found that it can bog down the IDE a bit at times (especially if you've left VS running but are doing other things for awhile). It's not a deal-breaker for me, though.
- rednaught 15y agoBy "not-vim-but-vim-like" do you mean modal editors?
- subleq 15y agoAre there any other modal editors besides vim?
- ConceitedCode 15y agoKomodo IDE does a great job with the Vim key bindings. http://www.activestate.com/komodo-ide http://www.activestate.com/komodo-ide
- devth 15y agoEvery time I see a new shiny text editor for mac, I'm like "meh". I would have been excited in my pre-vim days, but now? Nothing touches vim, unless it improves on vim.
- snprbob86 15y ago"Who doesn't like tabs?" In text editors? Me. I don't like thinking about which individual files are open. Any file under the root of my project (i.e. the editor's current working directory) is fair game for an open buffer. I treat open file as "go to class".
- kenneth_reitz 15y agoYou should try Sublime Text 2 w/ the tabs and sidebar hidden. It's a dream :)
- wahnfrieden 15y agoI like vim's tabs as a way of grouping kinds of buffers into a few categories, eg each tab might gave several split buffers representing a Django app per tab. This isn't how tabs work in most editors though.
- olsonjeffery 15y agoIs there a way to expose only certain buffers in certain tabs? My experience has been that all tabs show all loaded buffers... For this reason, I've pretty much forgone tabs in favor of minibufexpl.vim (https://github.com/fholgado/minibufexpl.vim https://github.com/fholgado/minibufexpl.vim), which gives me a pretty robust buffer-display window on the top of the editor and easy navigation keybindings ([shift+]ctrl+tab).
- oinksoft 15y agoNot that I know of. I mostly use tabs when I run out of room with all the splits I have.
- wahnfrieden 15y agoNope, but I have enough space to use several splits within a tab (which is also why I stick to 80 columns for most of my code) so it's not a huge issue. You should take a look at FuzzyFinder as an alternative to minibufexpl: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1984 http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1984 I mapped <leader>b to fuzzy search my open buffers. Much quicker and less cognitive overhead for me than managing a list of buffers manually and scanning it visually for what I need.
- lpgauth 15y agoI'd love to give it a try!
- dreamdu5t 15y agoReinventing the wheel...
- zachrose 15y agoIt's the only way to roll.
- chrishenn 15y agoA actively developed and quality casual editor for mac would be great. Textmate is still awesome, but it's getting stale on the innovation side. I can't say I've given Vico a try, but it isn't free ($40). And Kod looked great too, but it's stuck on version 0.0.3. Then again these aren't completely valid complaints. Vim is as great as ever, even though you aren't seeing any shiny big and innovative releases. Perhaps Chocolat will be worth the £30 price the developers plan. But I don't think I could move away from vi style navigation.
- Cushman 15y agoVico is a good contender for TextMate 2, but it's still pretty buggy for something he charges money for. Chocolat looks more like a contender for TextMate 1 to me... less Vim bindings? I'll probably skip it.
- chrishenn 15y agoTextmate 2 seems pretty much non-existent. There hasn't been a lot of information as to what it will actually bring. That said, Textmate 1 is still a very good editor if your into macros instead of vi-style full keyboard control. The problem I see is that every new editor isn't featured enough so it falls short compared to peoples editor of choice in some trivial way ("I don't like tabs" or "There's no go to file feature.")
- tedkalaw 15y agoI purchased Vico and haven't regretted it yet. I'll be pleased when the Lion bugs get sorted out. I've also wanted to love Textmate but can't give up my vim commands.
- Cushman 15y agoYeah, I love Vico. I'm not coming from a vim background, so the progressive enhancement approach really works for me. It'll be nice when it stops crashing on Lion, but hey, I haven't lost any work yet :P The only thing I really miss from TextMate is transparent backgrounds... hopefully that's coming in the future.
- seldo 15y agoThis seems like a reasonable editor, but doesn't list any features that would motivate me to switch away from Netbeans for my PHP work.
- overshard 15y agoOh look, another text editor. Just use TextMate if you're on Mac OS X. If you want something cross platform use Sublime Text, and if you want to be awesome and have a few days to customize and learn use VIM or Emacs. I use Sublime Text on my laptops and desktops and vim on my servers. It's the only editors I need for any operating system and any situation.
- barclay 15y agoI love me some textmate, but the lack of split window editing makes me sad, every time I start really working in it.
- stephth 15y agoIndeed. I would gladly pay $50 bucks just to be able to split windows in my textmate.
- wickedchicken 15y agoIs this the reason people commenting seem legitimately excited? I'm a Linux/vim guy; I appreciate when people make lean, straightforward 'simple' applications but this just appears to be a Macified version of vim... since TextMate was supposed to be Macified vim, I couldn't really see the point. I hate to be a neckbeard on this one, but I get irritated when Mac guys conflate 'simple' and 'graphical'. If this editor had been designed for a niche application (subethaedit), kept track of your most-used features and only emphasized those, or did something to simplify your overall editing experience I would be all for it. Instead I see an editor that replaced vim's look with a graphical one, like the palette swaps old videogames used to turn the good guys into the bad (same with versions of NetHack that had graphical tiles). Reminds me of that weird TermKit thing: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2559734 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2559734 I really want to break out of the terminal. It's crufty and old, but what's more disappointing is that no contender has yet matched or even surpassed its zen. Come on guys, build it already.
- 15y ago
- ArtemZ 15y agowhat is the point of creating new editors?
- reaganing 15y agoLooks very nice from the screenshots. I've been trying out a number of text editors since installing Lion and haven't found one I liked as much as TextMate, but want to as I expect TextMate 2 to never come out and for 1.5 to stop working with some future version of OS X.
- jackwagon 15y agoWhat differentiates this from Textmate? It so far looks like a clone, which I'm sure is just superficial.
- martingordon 15y agoIt's actively being developed, for one.
- jackwagon 15y agoTextmate works great for any. What features are Textmate users waiting for? Is this with Chocolat is going to deliver?
- andrewflnr 15y agoNow that's a landing page. It had just enough information on the first page, and easily led into the more detailed info in the sidebar navigation. If I was on a Mac and was remotely interested in trying a new editor, I might well have stuck my address in there. As it was, it still drew me in enough to poke around. Well done.
- pmr_ 15y agoOn the other hand the clear list of features made me realize it offers nothing I don't already have or want.
- tsycho 15y agoBut that's a good thing. If you had signed up with high hopes, expecting something else, and then the product disappointed you, then you might write a bad review/blog post etc. potentially turning away other users who might have liked the features[1]. So if the features don't appeal to you, it's good in the long run for the creator to not have you as a beta user. [1] the counter argument is that any publicity is good publicity :)
- prof 15y agoIndeed, I almost put my e-mail in and I don't even own a mac.
- dcope 15y agoBeautiful landing page, beautiful product. This looks to be an awesome editor. Can't wait.
- rednaught 15y agoI agree that it's a great looking looking site. But I don't see many detailed feaures. Can I ask you what you think makes this look to be an awesome editor? I am a Vim and Komodo user so I am admitedly hard to please but it seems the other new kid on the block, Sublime Text 2, offers more than Chocolat.
- dcope 15y agoI can't speak directly on Vim since I don't use it much. I have only used it for very quick edits and am no "Vim power user" by any measure of the spectrum. Ever since switching to OS X, I've been using TextMate. As everyone has been assuming, TM seems to be slowly dying. With the upgrade to Lion I've come across many bugs and quirks with TextMate. Chocolat seems like it's going to be something fresh and inviting for users. Coming from TextMate, I think this will solve the need for a nice, new editor that will embrace new OS features and actually be supported.
- jfb 15y agoI know I'm a graybeard, but I have yet to see a serious editor on any platform that could get me to switch away from Emacs. The perils of 20+ years of muscle memory and accumulated knowledge, I suppose.
- davidw 15y agoEmacs also has the advantage that, whatever you decide to throw at it, it'll probably do it pretty well. It may not be the absolute best editor for one given language or environment, but you can be sure that it will handle it well, and of course you'll get all the other stuff with it that that one editor for the one language probably doesn't have.
- wynand 15y agoMy Emacs history only goes back 5 years. A number of days ago, I downloaded Textmate and started playing with it. In the beginning I almost wanted to just delete it and go back to Emacs. But as time went on, its simplicity became increasingly pleasant; so last night, I purchased a license. To me, it's good to know that innovation in text editing is not over. I don't think that Textmate is the last word by any means but it is a beautiful tool and I'm curious to see how Chocolat stacks up.
- jimbokun 15y ago"The perils of 20+ years of muscle memory and accumulated knowledge, I suppose." This cuts both ways. For people whose muscle memory is attuned to the standard Mac or Windows shortcuts and UI conventions, Chocolat (or Textmate, or some Windows text editor) might be more appealing.
- tincholio 15y agoThat sounds pretty limited to copy/cut/paste and opening and saving. If you're doing heavy editing, and more so if you're using the editor for programming, you won't find that much use for standard shortcuts. For Emacs, there's also Aquamacs and CUA mode, which use the "native" shortcuts as you'd expect.
- jfb 15y ago
- high5ths 15y agoI keep looking for a Mac text editor that supports Lion auto-save...
- gillygize 15y agoNo one has mentioned it yet, but the authors are also the ones who have created the Ingredients documentation viewer: (http://fileability.net/ingredients/ http://fileability.net/ingredients/). If there is integration between Chocolat and Ingredients, it could be a compelling text editor for people like me, who do iOS development.
- mrmaddog 15y agoWhen will somebody produce a text editor built for remote editing of text files? The vast majority of programmers that I know do all of their work on a remote build-server, and thus are relegated to using emacs, vim or some extremely ungainly combination of TextMate+FtpServer/Remote Filesystem Mount. Could some intrepid developer create an app that would allow me to easily a) open and edit remote files b) open arbitrary terminal windows that are already ssh-ed into my build server so I can grep/find/make/whatever else I have to do. This would be the killer editor for me and most people I know, and it pains me every time I see a new editor that doesn't do this.
- rednaught 15y agoI'm not sure how well "relegated" is going to go over here since Vim and Emacs are considered by many the best editors. If you're on a Gnome-flavored Linux, then many "lesser" editors can use GVFS to remotely work on files.
- shurane 15y agodoes sshfs count, either?
- inportb 15y agoKDE tools can also work with remote data, using KIO slaves :3
- mrmaddog 15y agoDon't get me wrong, I have grown to love emacs. I use it all day, every day, and a good portion of my hippocampus is dedicated to storing away emacs keyboard shortcuts. But why can't I have what is good about emacs (a ton of buffers, unlimited bash shells, keyboard based) in a native text editor? I'm content with emacs now, but why do engineers have to spend so much time wrestling with an editor like emacs before being able to use it properly?
- rednaught 15y agoDid you see this discussion a few months ago on an interesting idea for a modern GUI terminal? I don't know if there has been any further development but that definitely has thought provoking ideas. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2559734 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2559734
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- kanja 15y agothis is like 5 great features from emacs, minus everything needed to turn it into a comprehensive whole and macros. Great.
- prtk 15y agoYet another guy wrote Emacs!!
- fedd 15y agoi sometimes need to use the split window to show me 2 or 3 code chunks that are sequential, so that they scroll together. i mean, not 3 different, distant parts of a document, but like one longer part of a document, where a core function with several recursions and nested loops is defined, in many lines, and i want to see them all. usually i print them out and then inspect. is there any editor to do this? maybe chocolat will?..
- mechanical_fish 15y agoEmacs. You're looking for follow-mode: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html%5Fnode/emacs/Follow-Mode.html http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html%5Fnode/emacs/F... The ability to edit the same file (or, in emacs terms, "buffer") in two or more windows is a killer feature.
- llimllib 15y agoIn Vim, you want scrollbinding: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Scrolling_synchronously http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Scrolling_synchronously
- etcet 15y agoRelevant HN post: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2797790 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2797790
- simplify 15y agoAnyone who thinks this is cool should check out Sublime Text 2. It has all these features and much more (json config files? oh yes). Also, it's cross-platform; learn once, use everywhere.
- desireco42 15y agoAgreed
- lovskogen 15y agoDo you often switch from linux to windows for your coding environment?
- simplify 15y agoI personally don't, but I know some programmers who often do.
- michaelcampbell 15y agoI do. Our official deploy environment is RedHat, but our official development environment is Windows. I use a linux distro in a VM to do most of my dev, but since a lot of guys use Windows I have to make sure that scripts and such work in both. The actual coding I don't switch as often, but there is some. I use emacs for most of it.
- jasonlotito 15y agoMore often than you realize. I switched from Windows to Mac at home last year, and being able to take my editor with me was critical. I also had Windows/Linux machines prior to that (and now, of course, OSX and Linux).
- bentlegen 15y ago> json config files? oh yes I find JSON makes for awful config files. For the sole reason that they can't be commented.
- 15y ago
- stephth 15y ago@chocolatapp: @iDuuck We support anything that TextMate does, through tmbundles. Though for technical reasons we can't support some commands or macros https://twitter.com/#!/chocolatapp/status/98131646351544320 https://twitter.com/#!/chocolatapp/status/98131646351544320
- mbrzuzy 15y agoIn my opinion they will have a hard time competing with Sublime Text 2 if they make it paid. Sublime text 2 supports OS X, Windows and Linux. I personally work on both Linux and Windows so ST2 is the one for me.
- leif 15y agoWith the amount of muscle memory and (deeply personalized) customization that goes in to getting comfortable with an editor, it seems like the hardest place to attract users, and since vim and emacs have already done everything worth doing in an editor (except flashy buttons I guess), it seems like the hardest place to innovate. textmate, bbedit, kod, coda, sublime text, and now this What is interesting about this space that makes people think they can make something better than vim and emacs, in fact, so much better that they can overcome the inertia that comes with being a vim or emacs user? I get that you can maybe grab a few notepad/textedit people, but you're never going to attract serious developers. If you are someone who pays for one of these editors, please help me understand and explain why, unless it's "someone told me about it before I knew any better and now I'm stuck with it for the same inertial reasons". (ides are different, I do get that, I don't get it when it's a "swiss-army knife" style of text editor)
- cdcarter 15y agoWell, since TextMate 2 still hasn't come out yet, and this seems to appeal to a very similar aesthetic, I could see this taking over that market. I'm definitely very interested to try it out.
- pacifi30 15y agoProbably should implement something like screen too
- angelortega 15y agoYet another text editor. This is exactly what the world needed.
- voyou 15y agoIt seems to me that if you're producing a new product in as crowded a field as text editors, it's not very persuasive to, as these guys do, list a bunch of features, particularly if these are features that are common to most other text editors. The website needs a hook: what does this text editor do, that my current text editor doesn't? What's the high concept, the couple of sentence explanation of what makes this text editor special?
- meatmanek 15y agoThis was exactly my thought. What exactly does this app have that Sublime Text 2 doesn't have?
- wladimir 15y agoIt would be nice if you added "for MacOSX" to the title next time, would save me a click in vain.
- richardk 15y agothis looks so nice, i'd really like to see a gnu/linux port :)
- upinsmoke 15y agoLooks like textmate
- mistrQ 15y agoI'm using vico right now, but this has got me super excited!
- mebesilly 15y agoYet another would be Emacs...
- vedang 15y agoA guided tour of Emacs: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/ http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/ Why would I want another editor?
- Luyt 15y agoI'd like Chocolat the be open source, so that it's easy to tailor to specific needs, and gets debugged rapidly.