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> The University of Georgia does not require that face masks be worn inside campus facilities. But Bernstein knew that two students who were out on the first da

> The University of Georgia does not require that face masks be worn inside campus facilities. But Bernstein knew that two students who were out on the first day of class had tested positive for the coronavirus, so he imposed his own mandate inside the classroom, the Red & Blue reported. It sounds like the professor should have resigned before ever stepping foot in the classroom. I mean, if the university has decided that masks are not required indoors, it's not the professor's place to make a rule to the contrary for his classroom.

abdullahkhalids 5y ago
Professors make decisions that are stricter than what their university allows, and there should be no problem if they do. Two examples: 1. Universities usually have no or minimal dress-codes, but professors in lab courses or on field trips will have mandatory dress codes for safety or cultural reasons. 2. My university has mandatory minimum attendance for every in-person course, with 15 minute leeway allowed. But lots of profs enforce a 0 min or 5 min leeway. I am sure others can add more examples.
noduerme 5y ago
If he were teaching chemistry and the girl refused to wear gloves, he could have thrown her out. He should have thrown her out anyway. As it was, what she was doing was personally putting him in danger. Of course he has every right to demand whatever he wants in his classroom.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  > If he were teaching chemistry and the girl refused to wear gloves, he could have thrown her out. You are required to wear gloves in a chemistry class for your own protection, and such a requirement isn't contrary to school policy. > As it was, what she was doing was personally putting him in danger. No, he was putting himself in danger by choosing to be in an environment where he was exposed to lots of other people, knowing full well that he is at the highest risk of severe illness or death from COVID because he's elderly and has comorbidities. > Of course he has every right to demand whatever he wants in his classroom. Really? So he could ask students to segregate themselves into seating areas by, say, race or religion? Vaccination status?
  - atkailash 5y ago
    Your mental gymnastics should be studied. It would be ok to require gloves for her own protection, which is outside and in addition to school policy, but it’s not ok to require a mask which protects everyone and is also outside of and in addition to school policy? That’s your argument?
    - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
      https://coronavirus.uga.edu/faq/should-i-wear-a-face-mask/ https://coronavirus.uga.edu/faq/should-i-wear-a-face-mask/ > The University System of Georgia encourages everyone—whether vaccinated or not—to wear a face covering while inside campus facilities. *However, face coverings and social distancing are not required.* The school's policy explicitly states that masks (and social distancing) are not required. The professor wanted to supersede the policy, which he had no authority to do. Under the policy, students have the right not to wear masks or social distance. On the other hand, the University of Georgia's policies explicitly require the use of gloves (and specific types of gloves) when handling dangerous chemicals, so this is not at all comparable. The like situation would be a professor demanding that his students not wear gloves in contravention of the policy. https://research.uga.edu/docs/units/safety/manuals/Chemical-Laboratory-Safety-Manual.pdf https://research.uga.edu/docs/units/safety/manuals/Chemical-...
wildrhythms 5y ago
It seems like you value the non-decision of university bureaucrats over the professors who actually do the work.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  If the university required masks indoors and there was a professor who decided to allow students not to wear them in his classroom, would that be acceptable?
  - __m 5y ago
    No, but that’s not what happened here.
    - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
      Why "no"? What logic or principle is your position based on?
      - noduerme 5y ago
        Based on the obvious principle that forcing someone to take what they consider too many precautions is radically different from forcing them to take not enough precautions. The former leads to annoyance and the latter leads to death. I'm so exhausted with the trolls who pretend they can't fathom the difference. At least learn how to make an argument that makes some kind of logical sense. Why am I even responding to this.
        LurkingPenguin 5y ago
        > Based on the obvious principle that forcing someone to take what they consider too many precautions is radically different from forcing them to take not enough precautions. What if the professor demanded his students wear a specific kind of mask, like an N95? What if he required his students to take rapid tests before class? Where do you draw the line? If an elderly person with comorbidities -- the highest risk individual in this pandemic by far -- wants to work in an environment where he will be exposed to many other people, which is inherently risky regardless of vaccination and masking (because neither offers 100% protection), he should find an employer whose rules are satisfactory to him, not impose rules that are contrary to his employer's.
bradknowles 5y ago
He told the students what the rules were for his class, and why his health reasons dictated a more stringent policy for the class than was standard for the University. I see no problems with that. If the students didn’t like his policies, then they could have gone elsewhere. I think the real concern here should be the harm done to the other students, both by the one student who couldn’t be bothered to put on a mask and the fact that they have now lost their professor.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  Did the university give him permission to dictate a more stringent policy for his classroom? If you are elderly and have pre-existing conditions, you can choose not to work in an environment where you are around large numbers of people and masks are not required. Ostensibly, he (and probably other staff) had voiced their concerns to the university and the university still decided not to require masks. One might disagree with that decision, but that doesn't give people who disagree with it the right to dictate their own rules. Finally, it's pretty clear that the professor was already looking for a way out and found a trigger he could pull: > "I felt some relief as I had been getting more concerned as the COVID-19 pandemic unfolded in recent weeks."
  - RileyJames 5y ago
    I think he was asking for his students to empathise with his needs based on his pre-existing health condition. He was asking them to make a reciprocal gesture of respect. Deliberately wearing a mask as to render it ineffective in the circumstance is deeply disrespectful. It’s a pity one student ruined it for the whole class, but upon reflection maybe a more important lesson will be learned by all.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      > upon reflection maybe a more important lesson will be learned by all. Probably all except that particular student.
- radu_floricica 5y ago
newbamboo 5y ago
Strong disagree. There’s very little reason college classes even need to meet in person. If they do, it would be very easy to protect the lecturer. A plexiglass divider is all that’s needed. A university that doesn’t provide that is essentially either being negligent to save a few bucks, unjustifiable given their massive revenues, or willfully trying to push out a tenured professor. I hope he sues big and wins. Universities have long outlived their usefulness. They’re just corporations that exist to provide the elite with sinecure jobs and nurture endowments that mostly sit idle.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  From someone who don't think the current rules are enough, plexiglass probably doesn't help. It's not just spit, it's airborne, like cigarette smoke. Imagine being in a room with a smoker, would 6ft, cloth masks or plexiglass stop you from noticing the smell of cigarettes?
  - newbamboo 5y ago
    It could. There used to be smoking sections in airports. The barriers, typically glass but they could easily be made of plexiglass, did in fact keep the smoke inside the smoking section. This would not be a great expense. Add some cheap mics and speakers; problem solved.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  That's a totally different argument. He could have asked for the ability to teach online, or for specific in-class accommodations, but instead he decided to go into the classroom and predictably, when a student didn't go along with his contrary-to-school-policy demand, he used it as a way to resign with a bang. Also, there's no real evidence that plexiglass is effective. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-08/fortunes-spent-on-plastic-shields-with-no-proof-they-stop-covid https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-08/fortunes-...
vnchr 5y ago
Agreed, the professor’s conflict was with university policy that he agreed to follow per his employment. He can’t supersede rules made beyond his position. He has a job to teach in that classroom. At least, he used to.
- kwooding 5y ago
  Nah. This guy was awesome. Of course he can supersede rules beyond his position. That’s “free speech” and tenure, and exactly what Universities have traditionally been about. He’s making a stand based on what he thinks is right. The students are free to do the same, of course, with all the repercussions that entail. In this case, the repercussion was obvious. Don’t play chicken with someone who has nothing to lose.
  - CozyBearNotSoy 5y ago
    I don't think the student was playing chicken here. She probably wanted to attend the class she paid to attend subject to the policies she agreed to when she enrolled, pass her exams, and get an A.
    - noduerme 5y ago
      So? I've had professors ask for things I thought were ridiculous, walked out of the class and changed to a different one. Tough titty.

abdullahkhalids 5y ago

Professors make decisions that are stricter than what their university allows, and there should be no problem if they do. Two examples: 1. Universities usually have no or minimal dress-codes, but professors in lab courses or on field trips will have mandatory dress codes for safety or cultural reasons. 2. My university has mandatory minimum attendance for every in-person course, with 15 minute leeway allowed. But lots of profs enforce a 0 min or 5 min leeway. I am sure others can add more examples.

noduerme 5y ago

If he were teaching chemistry and the girl refused to wear gloves, he could have thrown her out. He should have thrown her out anyway. As it was, what she was doing was personally putting him in danger. Of course he has every right to demand whatever he wants in his classroom.

LurkingPenguin 5y ago
> If he were teaching chemistry and the girl refused to wear gloves, he could have thrown her out. You are required to wear gloves in a chemistry class for your own protection, and such a requirement isn't contrary to school policy. > As it was, what she was doing was personally putting him in danger. No, he was putting himself in danger by choosing to be in an environment where he was exposed to lots of other people, knowing full well that he is at the highest risk of severe illness or death from COVID because he's elderly and has comorbidities. > Of course he has every right to demand whatever he wants in his classroom. Really? So he could ask students to segregate themselves into seating areas by, say, race or religion? Vaccination status?
- atkailash 5y ago
  Your mental gymnastics should be studied. It would be ok to require gloves for her own protection, which is outside and in addition to school policy, but it’s not ok to require a mask which protects everyone and is also outside of and in addition to school policy? That’s your argument?
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    https://coronavirus.uga.edu/faq/should-i-wear-a-face-mask/ https://coronavirus.uga.edu/faq/should-i-wear-a-face-mask/ > The University System of Georgia encourages everyone—whether vaccinated or not—to wear a face covering while inside campus facilities. *However, face coverings and social distancing are not required.* The school's policy explicitly states that masks (and social distancing) are not required. The professor wanted to supersede the policy, which he had no authority to do. Under the policy, students have the right not to wear masks or social distance. On the other hand, the University of Georgia's policies explicitly require the use of gloves (and specific types of gloves) when handling dangerous chemicals, so this is not at all comparable. The like situation would be a professor demanding that his students not wear gloves in contravention of the policy. https://research.uga.edu/docs/units/safety/manuals/Chemical-Laboratory-Safety-Manual.pdf https://research.uga.edu/docs/units/safety/manuals/Chemical-...

wildrhythms 5y ago

It seems like you value the non-decision of university bureaucrats over the professors who actually do the work.

LurkingPenguin 5y ago
If the university required masks indoors and there was a professor who decided to allow students not to wear them in his classroom, would that be acceptable?
- __m 5y ago
  No, but that’s not what happened here.
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    Why "no"? What logic or principle is your position based on?
    - noduerme 5y ago
      Based on the obvious principle that forcing someone to take what they consider too many precautions is radically different from forcing them to take not enough precautions. The former leads to annoyance and the latter leads to death. I'm so exhausted with the trolls who pretend they can't fathom the difference. At least learn how to make an argument that makes some kind of logical sense. Why am I even responding to this.
      - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
        > Based on the obvious principle that forcing someone to take what they consider too many precautions is radically different from forcing them to take not enough precautions. What if the professor demanded his students wear a specific kind of mask, like an N95? What if he required his students to take rapid tests before class? Where do you draw the line? If an elderly person with comorbidities -- the highest risk individual in this pandemic by far -- wants to work in an environment where he will be exposed to many other people, which is inherently risky regardless of vaccination and masking (because neither offers 100% protection), he should find an employer whose rules are satisfactory to him, not impose rules that are contrary to his employer's.

bradknowles 5y ago

He told the students what the rules were for his class, and why his health reasons dictated a more stringent policy for the class than was standard for the University. I see no problems with that. If the students didn’t like his policies, then they could have gone elsewhere. I think the real concern here should be the harm done to the other students, both by the one student who couldn’t be bothered to put on a mask and the fact that they have now lost their professor.

LurkingPenguin 5y ago
Did the university give him permission to dictate a more stringent policy for his classroom? If you are elderly and have pre-existing conditions, you can choose not to work in an environment where you are around large numbers of people and masks are not required. Ostensibly, he (and probably other staff) had voiced their concerns to the university and the university still decided not to require masks. One might disagree with that decision, but that doesn't give people who disagree with it the right to dictate their own rules. Finally, it's pretty clear that the professor was already looking for a way out and found a trigger he could pull: > "I felt some relief as I had been getting more concerned as the COVID-19 pandemic unfolded in recent weeks."
- RileyJames 5y ago
  I think he was asking for his students to empathise with his needs based on his pre-existing health condition. He was asking them to make a reciprocal gesture of respect. Deliberately wearing a mask as to render it ineffective in the circumstance is deeply disrespectful. It’s a pity one student ruined it for the whole class, but upon reflection maybe a more important lesson will be learned by all.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > upon reflection maybe a more important lesson will be learned by all. Probably all except that particular student.
radu_floricica 5y ago

newbamboo 5y ago

Strong disagree. There’s very little reason college classes even need to meet in person. If they do, it would be very easy to protect the lecturer. A plexiglass divider is all that’s needed. A university that doesn’t provide that is essentially either being negligent to save a few bucks, unjustifiable given their massive revenues, or willfully trying to push out a tenured professor. I hope he sues big and wins. Universities have long outlived their usefulness. They’re just corporations that exist to provide the elite with sinecure jobs and nurture endowments that mostly sit idle.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago
From someone who don't think the current rules are enough, plexiglass probably doesn't help. It's not just spit, it's airborne, like cigarette smoke. Imagine being in a room with a smoker, would 6ft, cloth masks or plexiglass stop you from noticing the smell of cigarettes?
- newbamboo 5y ago
  It could. There used to be smoking sections in airports. The barriers, typically glass but they could easily be made of plexiglass, did in fact keep the smoke inside the smoking section. This would not be a great expense. Add some cheap mics and speakers; problem solved.
LurkingPenguin 5y ago
That's a totally different argument. He could have asked for the ability to teach online, or for specific in-class accommodations, but instead he decided to go into the classroom and predictably, when a student didn't go along with his contrary-to-school-policy demand, he used it as a way to resign with a bang. Also, there's no real evidence that plexiglass is effective. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-08/fortunes-spent-on-plastic-shields-with-no-proof-they-stop-covid https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-08/fortunes-...

vnchr 5y ago

Agreed, the professor’s conflict was with university policy that he agreed to follow per his employment. He can’t supersede rules made beyond his position. He has a job to teach in that classroom. At least, he used to.

kwooding 5y ago
Nah. This guy was awesome. Of course he can supersede rules beyond his position. That’s “free speech” and tenure, and exactly what Universities have traditionally been about. He’s making a stand based on what he thinks is right. The students are free to do the same, of course, with all the repercussions that entail. In this case, the repercussion was obvious. Don’t play chicken with someone who has nothing to lose.
- CozyBearNotSoy 5y ago
  I don't think the student was playing chicken here. She probably wanted to attend the class she paid to attend subject to the policies she agreed to when she enrolled, pass her exams, and get an A.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    So? I've had professors ask for things I thought were ridiculous, walked out of the class and changed to a different one. Tough titty.