7 ms·

Work-life balance: A perspective from Jack Nicklaus

61 points by simplegeek 5y ago

WhompingWindows 5y ago
Must be nice to be extremely wealthy and the greatest ever at a game you've always loved. Unlimited money to fly your kids around to wherever you are "working", huge flexibility of schedule when you're not playing the game, huge relief of stress by doing what you love. The basic insight, that happiness comes from family, is a truism at this point.
- fipar 5y ago
  It may be a truism but a lot of people still pursue happiness in their job. My focus has always been my family and instead of flying them everywhere (that did happen once though: I had to do a client on-site and I said “either my family comes with me or I don’t go. There are many jobs but I only have one family”, and they flew us all in), I’ve consistently chosen remote jobs with no mandatory travel instead of the slightly better paying option with “relocation package”, or frequent traveling. I’m aware I’m lucky as lots of people don’t have that choice, but I think in my industry (IT) a lot of people maximize for career progress when there’s plenty of good-paying family-friendly opportunities too.
  - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    I agree with everything you've written, but that is also exactly why I think Jack Nicklaus is a poor example for most people. In your case, you had to explicitly choose to take the path of family over maximizing career progression. Jack Nicklaus didn't have to do that - he could easily have both. Honestly, I'd rather read stories about how people like you created a healthy work-life balance than more laudatory articles focusing on unattainable hero worship.
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
While I think Nicklaus' mindset is commendable, I also think there is a real danger trying to think his lessons are widely applicable. Jack was by far the best golfer of his era, and he made many millions of dollars playing a game he loved, so he could easily afford things like having his family travel with him everywhere. For nearly all others caught up in the rat race with an unhealthy work-life balance, they can't say the same. I'll just speak personally for myself, but I know some of my tendencies to over-commit to work are because I, just like Jack, want to be really great at what I do. But at the same time, I don't have anywhere near the same level of comparable talent in my field, so I have to work much longer at it, and I'm still rarely satisfied with the results. It kind of reminds me of stuff I've read about Usain Bolt, that he's really chill and laid back. When you know you have the innate gifts to never lose, it's easier to feel that way.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  It must be nice to be able to focus on the one thing you are really good at, and make enough money with it so you can spend money to get help at all the other aspects of life. That’s why it often bothers me when celebrity mothers talk about life balance in talk shows and get admired for it. This is much easier to achieve if you can afford nannies, cooks and cleaners. In general, be wary of life advice from wealth people. Their advice often doesn’t apply to the average guy.
  - kwanbix 5y ago
    100% truth. While living in south america, we could afford a nanny and a cleaning/cooking person. Life was so much easier from that point of view.
    - pope_meat 5y ago
      How was life for the nanny/cleaning/cooking people?
      - kwanbix 5y ago
        It was good. We payed them a higher salary than what they will normally get, and even took care of their taxes so they were really happy with us.
- EngCanMan 5y ago
  Your views are ones that are unfortunately too common in society, the common theme being ‘the successful guy has it easy, if he had my problems…’. The successful probably worked harder than you, made smarter/luckier choices than you, and had to overcome many of the same problems as you. Society needs to stop excusing their own problems as if the successful don’t have them too.
  - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    What you've written is a total, 100% mischaracterization of my opinion. I don't think Nicklaus "had it easy", nor do I think there probably weren't lots of things he had to overcome. But at the very top echelons of sport, virtually all the difference in success comes down to innate talent. Why? Because at that level, basically all the competitors are putting in nearly the maximum about of time and practice necessary to succeed. We don't ever really try to deny this either - look at how sportscasters talk about people like Bolt, Nicklaus, Messi, Ronaldo, Biles, James, Phelps, etc. etc. Nobody denies they work really hard, but also nobody denies their innate gifts are otherworldly. I mean, I've seen loads of articles that talk about how Phelps is almost genetically constructed to have the perfect body for swimming. And I don't begrudge any of these superstars for their success - on the contrary, they bring me lots of joy by sharing their insane talents with the world. What I do begrudge is the messaging that we can all "be like Mike" if we just put our mind to it and work hard, and then we can have a nice work-life balance to boot. I'd much rather read articles about "average" people and how they learned to balance their desire for success with healthy relationships.
Bud 5y ago
I have a lot of respect for Nicklaus and am a big fan. I even got married at his club in California. But I do have to point out: Nicklaus was a big Trump supporter. That doesn't really square with painting him as a paragon of family values, or work-life balance.
- eplanit 5y ago
  This says a lot more about you than either Trump or Nicklaus.
blisterpeanuts 5y ago
These responses just make me sad. Family is, by far, the most important and redeeming thing in my life. We have one child, an amazing and talented and beautiful girl, who along with my wife is worth more to me than all the money in the world. You could offer me $50 billion in exchange, and I would turn it down. Unfortunately, this concept is unknowable until you experience it for yourself. That is why our civilization is in trouble; when people choose not to raise a family, they forego a natural and essential part of life, they have little understanding or empathy for those who do have children, and society becomes ever grimmer and coarser as a result. Mr. Nicklaus could be a millionaire or a poor man and his words would ring just as true.
- Bud 5y ago
  I'm not sure that civilization's problems (especially given our massive overpopulation problems) can be ascribed to a general lack of "empathy" on the part of people who don't have children. Actually, I am sure that they can't. I'm sure we've all observed plenty of people with kids who seem to lack all empathy.
  - blisterpeanuts 5y ago
    My general point was that a family centric society is safer, more stable, and more functional than a post-family society. More boring, perhaps, but when you're raising children, boring and predictable are advantages. We can all agree, though, that dysfunctional families do not contribute to said stability.
    - wolfretcrap 5y ago
      As someone who comes from India which is a country with lots of corruption when these people are caught red-handed often they say they did it for their kids. Screwed everyone's life to ensure better life for your kids, a masterstroke in India.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- 5y ago
chrisstu 5y ago
Surprisingly few mentions of the orange elephant in the room here. Perhaps Don Jr shot the elephant on a "hunting" trip.
ramesh31 5y ago
>It includes David’s interview with Jack Nicklaus, who is one of the greatest golfers of all time. I recently learned that even Tiger Woods is behind Jack Nicklaus in terms of major titles won. This is a lot like saying Larry Bird was the best shooter in the history of basketball. The game was different then, and far less competitive.
dvtrn 5y ago
Work serves an important purpose in our life. It not only helps us create value, but also helps us learn from people and experiences. So yes, work is important, but not most important. It deserves our attention, but not the whole of it. Our family, not our work, comes first. I love this thinking and wish it would take more of a precedent versus finding new ways to describe and justify why work should be the central meme of our societal-existence. I recognize that work has its place in our lives, but I also maintain a lot of mental well being by reminding myself that work is not the total sum of meaning in our lives. That includes this seemingly in vogue reframing of work away from "work-life balance" to "work-life blend" of the last several years[1]. The last thing I want is to 'blend' work with life, because then all compartmentalization goes away, the already faint demarcation lines that exist between employer and employee grow even fainter, and boundaries become problematic to enforce. The leadership and management class enjoy 'work-life-balance' and 'work-life-blend' in very different ways than the rank and file cadre and I wish there was as much writing about that as there was about how I should strive for "blending" my work life with my life life. [1] https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=work+life+blend https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=work+li...
listenallyall 5y ago
I think people are vastly over-estimating how much prize money Jack Nicklaus was winning. His grand total from winning his first 5 Masters -- an unprecedented feat -- was $120,000. Golf in his era wasn't even close to the sport today where #112 on the money list is a over a million bucks. Golfers also have a huge built-in cost structure that team athletes don't. Coaches, caddy, doctors, are all paid for by the golfer. Team plane and team hotel? Nope, golfers pay their own travel expenses. Guaranteed contracts? Lol. If you don't perform, you don't get paid. Any injury -- major or minor -- that would sideline an MLB or NBA player (at full pay), means zero revenue for the golfer. It's no surprise that golfers seek out sponsors,.not just for the extra income but to provide some income stability and to offset all these enormous costs.

61 points by simplegeek 5y ago

Must be nice to be extremely wealthy and the greatest ever at a game you've always loved. Unlimited money to fly your kids around to wherever you are "working", huge flexibility of schedule when you're not playing the game, huge relief of stress by doing what you love. The basic insight, that happiness comes from family, is a truism at this point.

fipar 5y ago
It may be a truism but a lot of people still pursue happiness in their job. My focus has always been my family and instead of flying them everywhere (that did happen once though: I had to do a client on-site and I said “either my family comes with me or I don’t go. There are many jobs but I only have one family”, and they flew us all in), I’ve consistently chosen remote jobs with no mandatory travel instead of the slightly better paying option with “relocation package”, or frequent traveling. I’m aware I’m lucky as lots of people don’t have that choice, but I think in my industry (IT) a lot of people maximize for career progress when there’s plenty of good-paying family-friendly opportunities too.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  I agree with everything you've written, but that is also exactly why I think Jack Nicklaus is a poor example for most people. In your case, you had to explicitly choose to take the path of family over maximizing career progression. Jack Nicklaus didn't have to do that - he could easily have both. Honestly, I'd rather read stories about how people like you created a healthy work-life balance than more laudatory articles focusing on unattainable hero worship.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

While I think Nicklaus' mindset is commendable, I also think there is a real danger trying to think his lessons are widely applicable. Jack was by far the best golfer of his era, and he made many millions of dollars playing a game he loved, so he could easily afford things like having his family travel with him everywhere. For nearly all others caught up in the rat race with an unhealthy work-life balance, they can't say the same. I'll just speak personally for myself, but I know some of my tendencies to over-commit to work are because I, just like Jack, want to be really great at what I do. But at the same time, I don't have anywhere near the same level of comparable talent in my field, so I have to work much longer at it, and I'm still rarely satisfied with the results. It kind of reminds me of stuff I've read about Usain Bolt, that he's really chill and laid back. When you know you have the innate gifts to never lose, it's easier to feel that way.

spaetzleesser 5y ago
It must be nice to be able to focus on the one thing you are really good at, and make enough money with it so you can spend money to get help at all the other aspects of life. That’s why it often bothers me when celebrity mothers talk about life balance in talk shows and get admired for it. This is much easier to achieve if you can afford nannies, cooks and cleaners. In general, be wary of life advice from wealth people. Their advice often doesn’t apply to the average guy.
- kwanbix 5y ago
  100% truth. While living in south america, we could afford a nanny and a cleaning/cooking person. Life was so much easier from that point of view.
  - pope_meat 5y ago
    How was life for the nanny/cleaning/cooking people?
    - kwanbix 5y ago
      It was good. We payed them a higher salary than what they will normally get, and even took care of their taxes so they were really happy with us.
EngCanMan 5y ago
Your views are ones that are unfortunately too common in society, the common theme being ‘the successful guy has it easy, if he had my problems…’. The successful probably worked harder than you, made smarter/luckier choices than you, and had to overcome many of the same problems as you. Society needs to stop excusing their own problems as if the successful don’t have them too.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  What you've written is a total, 100% mischaracterization of my opinion. I don't think Nicklaus "had it easy", nor do I think there probably weren't lots of things he had to overcome. But at the very top echelons of sport, virtually all the difference in success comes down to innate talent. Why? Because at that level, basically all the competitors are putting in nearly the maximum about of time and practice necessary to succeed. We don't ever really try to deny this either - look at how sportscasters talk about people like Bolt, Nicklaus, Messi, Ronaldo, Biles, James, Phelps, etc. etc. Nobody denies they work really hard, but also nobody denies their innate gifts are otherworldly. I mean, I've seen loads of articles that talk about how Phelps is almost genetically constructed to have the perfect body for swimming. And I don't begrudge any of these superstars for their success - on the contrary, they bring me lots of joy by sharing their insane talents with the world. What I do begrudge is the messaging that we can all "be like Mike" if we just put our mind to it and work hard, and then we can have a nice work-life balance to boot. I'd much rather read articles about "average" people and how they learned to balance their desire for success with healthy relationships.

Bud 5y ago

I have a lot of respect for Nicklaus and am a big fan. I even got married at his club in California. But I do have to point out: Nicklaus was a big Trump supporter. That doesn't really square with painting him as a paragon of family values, or work-life balance.

eplanit 5y ago
This says a lot more about you than either Trump or Nicklaus.

blisterpeanuts 5y ago

These responses just make me sad. Family is, by far, the most important and redeeming thing in my life. We have one child, an amazing and talented and beautiful girl, who along with my wife is worth more to me than all the money in the world. You could offer me $50 billion in exchange, and I would turn it down. Unfortunately, this concept is unknowable until you experience it for yourself. That is why our civilization is in trouble; when people choose not to raise a family, they forego a natural and essential part of life, they have little understanding or empathy for those who do have children, and society becomes ever grimmer and coarser as a result. Mr. Nicklaus could be a millionaire or a poor man and his words would ring just as true.

Bud 5y ago
I'm not sure that civilization's problems (especially given our massive overpopulation problems) can be ascribed to a general lack of "empathy" on the part of people who don't have children. Actually, I am sure that they can't. I'm sure we've all observed plenty of people with kids who seem to lack all empathy.
- blisterpeanuts 5y ago
  My general point was that a family centric society is safer, more stable, and more functional than a post-family society. More boring, perhaps, but when you're raising children, boring and predictable are advantages. We can all agree, though, that dysfunctional families do not contribute to said stability.
  - wolfretcrap 5y ago
    As someone who comes from India which is a country with lots of corruption when these people are caught red-handed often they say they did it for their kids. Screwed everyone's life to ensure better life for your kids, a masterstroke in India.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
5y ago

chrisstu 5y ago

Surprisingly few mentions of the orange elephant in the room here. Perhaps Don Jr shot the elephant on a "hunting" trip.

ramesh31 5y ago

>It includes David’s interview with Jack Nicklaus, who is one of the greatest golfers of all time. I recently learned that even Tiger Woods is behind Jack Nicklaus in terms of major titles won. This is a lot like saying Larry Bird was the best shooter in the history of basketball. The game was different then, and far less competitive.

dvtrn 5y ago

Work serves an important purpose in our life. It not only helps us create value, but also helps us learn from people and experiences. So yes, work is important, but not most important. It deserves our attention, but not the whole of it. Our family, not our work, comes first. I love this thinking and wish it would take more of a precedent versus finding new ways to describe and justify why work should be the central meme of our societal-existence. I recognize that work has its place in our lives, but I also maintain a lot of mental well being by reminding myself that work is not the total sum of meaning in our lives. That includes this seemingly in vogue reframing of work away from "work-life balance" to "work-life blend" of the last several years[1]. The last thing I want is to 'blend' work with life, because then all compartmentalization goes away, the already faint demarcation lines that exist between employer and employee grow even fainter, and boundaries become problematic to enforce. The leadership and management class enjoy 'work-life-balance' and 'work-life-blend' in very different ways than the rank and file cadre and I wish there was as much writing about that as there was about how I should strive for "blending" my work life with my life life. [1] https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=work+life+blend https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=work+li...

listenallyall 5y ago

I think people are vastly over-estimating how much prize money Jack Nicklaus was winning. His grand total from winning his first 5 Masters -- an unprecedented feat -- was $120,000. Golf in his era wasn't even close to the sport today where #112 on the money list is a over a million bucks. Golfers also have a huge built-in cost structure that team athletes don't. Coaches, caddy, doctors, are all paid for by the golfer. Team plane and team hotel? Nope, golfers pay their own travel expenses. Guaranteed contracts? Lol. If you don't perform, you don't get paid. Any injury -- major or minor -- that would sideline an MLB or NBA player (at full pay), means zero revenue for the golfer. It's no surprise that golfers seek out sponsors,.not just for the extra income but to provide some income stability and to offset all these enormous costs.