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This is a great piece, the deep reporting of the old New Yorker. Some highlights: > A reporter from Absolute Return, a trade publication for the hedge-fund ind

This is a great piece, the deep reporting of the old New Yorker. Some highlights: > A reporter from Absolute Return, a trade publication for the hedge-fund industry, asked Grant, “How do Wall Street skills usually translate in prison?” His reply: “These skills are not only in large degree useless, they are probably counterproductive.” As he told me recently, “Business rewards a certain type of attitude and assertiveness—all things that will get you killed in prison.” .... > Before reporting to prison, he advised them, mail yourself the phone numbers of family members and friends on the visitors’ list, because “you’ll be too discombobulated to remember them once you’re inside.” And remind your wife never to touch paper money on the morning of a visit; almost every bill bears traces of drug residue, which will set off the scanners. .... > He draws a distinction between his work and the industry of white-collar “prison coaches” who offer bespoke services for a price. Among them, Wall Street Prison Consultants promises to “ensure you serve the shortest sentence possible in the most favorable institution.” It sells consulting packages at the levels of Bronze, Silver, and Gold, the finest of which includes “Polygraph Manipulation Techniques,” “Prison Survival Orientation Coaching,” and an “Early Release Package” that helps clients apply for a drug-treatment program to reduce the length of a sentence.

blueyes 5y ago
Separately, shout out to Richard Bronson, a founder who appears in this story, and whose YC startup Commissary Club tries to get former convicts to adjust to life after prison: https://www.commissary.club https://www.commissary.club I believe there's a lot of work to be done to help people re-integrate with society. This is a theme with YC. Another cool startup they have backed is: Recidiviz https://www.recidiviz.org https://www.recidiviz.org
- paulpauper 5y ago
  Or how about ppl who don't go to jail. I am sure there are plenty of those who need help. So if going to jail for 2 years means I will get a more help and opportunity then I otherwise would get, maybe it is a good tradeoff.
  - sodality2 5y ago
    Congrats, you've just described nearly every other company's hiring procedure...
  - burnished 5y ago
    I think the reason you're talking about this in the hypothetical instead of doing it is because you know it isn't a good trade off and you're being incredibly glib.
  - babelfish 5y ago
    Okay, go to jail for two years. Please let me know how you fare after.
  - AlexCoventry 5y ago
    Or how about we stop shaming people for contributing to causes they find worthwhile, even if they're not contributing to causes we're personally, individually invested in. https://thecorners.substack.com/p/if-you-cant-take-in-anymore-theres https://thecorners.substack.com/p/if-you-cant-take-in-anymor...
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
>And remind your wife never to touch paper money on the morning of a visit; almost every bill bears traces of drug residue, which will set off the scanners. so - America has an extremely large prison population. I've never heard this before though. I mean I've heard the money has trace amounts of drugs thing, but not when visiting family members in prison don't touch paper money. You'd think it was a common problem, people touching paper money and setting off scanners and then getting stopped, searched and maybe questioned depending on a lot of stuff, like skin color. Being black and touching money on the day of visiting a relative in prison must be in some ways an extremely dangerous thing to do. Unless of course this guy is full of shit. Or I just haven't heard of this problem which I guess is also a possibility, it's just - my sensors are going off here.
- cmckn 5y ago
  Highly doubt this kind of equipment is present at the majority of institutions, or that it’s sensitive enough to find the trace of a trace amount like this. Sounds cool for a movie, though
  - hammock 5y ago
    Why? Prison contracts are big business. I've seen even small prisons with giant x-ray body scanners (the kind that were removed from airports, actually not those but more serious ones where you stand on a conveyor belt and your exposure is a full 3-5 seconds). A mass spectrometer of the type they use at airports for explosives, can be used for drugs and easily acquired by any prison.
- 0xcde4c3db 5y ago
  This smells to me like a myth spread by prison staff to explain away false positives and/or discourage drug smuggling.
  - zxcvbn4038 5y ago
    Agreed, prison guards are about the furthest thing possible from what you see on the CSI shows. It’s kind of a last resort job for people who can’t do anything else. When I visit people in prison I always bring my US Passport for identification because it just totally throws a wrench in the works, requires one or two supervisors to review my document, and 15-45 minutes to figure out how to enter it into the system since the passport number is twice as long as the driver’s license number and doesn’t fit in the usual entry screen. I’m sure it’s the most exciting thing to happen to them that day. Wait thirty days and everything old is new again. Once I ran into a super cop who wanted to know how I drove there and started to unholster his sidearm (obviously assuming that I was driving without a license and he was going to arrest me) but then I told him I took a cab and it just killed him and begrudgingly he waved me through to the next checkpoint. In reality I do drive myself, I just take out my license and leave it in the armrest of my car before I go in - that also blows away the myth of all cops being superhuman lie detectors with Black Widow level knowledge of body language and voice cues.
the_only_law 5y ago
> As he told me recently, “Business rewards a certain type of attitude and assertiveness—all things that will get you killed in prison.” Are these people going to the same sort of prisons where getting killed is a serious risk?
- elliekelly 5y ago
  I think getting killed is a serious risk in every prison in America. Even in the minimum security facilities where people serve sentences for non-violent crimes.
  - AlbertCory 5y ago
    Do you actually know anyone who's been to prison? What's your source for this? I do know someone (I'm not going to disclose any details to protect his privacy). But I don't think he'd agree with you on that.
    - coldtea 5y ago
      Well, it's seems to be on the increase: https://www.statista.com/statistics/220920/number-of-state-prisoner-homicides-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/220920/number-of-state-p... And given that there are ~ 1.8 million people in prison in the US, you have 1 in 15000 chances to be murdered in prison per year. For context, your chances are 1 in 20000 in the general US population [1]. [1] From the reported 5 per 100,000 people murder rate, which includes the 0,5% of the population in prison (though the latter is such a small percentage that doesn't really change the general result).
      - Retric 5y ago
        That’s showing 120 murders across just sate prisons. “ 1,291,000 people were in state prison, 631,000 in local jails, 226,000 in federal prisons, 44,000 in youth correctional facilities, 42,000 in immigration detention camps, 22,000 in involuntary commitment, 11,000 in territorial prisons, 2,500 in Indian Country jails, and 1,300 in United States military prisons.[8]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_ra... So it’s 1 in 10,000 per year aka a 1 in 500 shot of being murdered in a 20 year prison sentence which seems dangerous but still unlikely.
Animats 5y ago
Wall Street Prison Consultants promises to “ensure you serve the shortest sentence possible in the most favorable institution.” This is an actual business.[1] [1] https://www.wallstreetprisonconsultants.com/ https://www.wallstreetprisonconsultants.com/
- cbozeman 5y ago
  I love that this exists. God Bless America.
- siva7 5y ago
  Only in america….
darkerside 5y ago
> Business rewards a certain type of attitude and assertiveness—all things that will get you killed in prison This sounds like bullshit. Those sound like things that will get you challenged but not killed. Animal nature is to challenge the strong but prey on the weak.

blueyes 5y ago

Separately, shout out to Richard Bronson, a founder who appears in this story, and whose YC startup Commissary Club tries to get former convicts to adjust to life after prison: https://www.commissary.club https://www.commissary.club I believe there's a lot of work to be done to help people re-integrate with society. This is a theme with YC. Another cool startup they have backed is: Recidiviz https://www.recidiviz.org https://www.recidiviz.org

paulpauper 5y ago
Or how about ppl who don't go to jail. I am sure there are plenty of those who need help. So if going to jail for 2 years means I will get a more help and opportunity then I otherwise would get, maybe it is a good tradeoff.
- sodality2 5y ago
  Congrats, you've just described nearly every other company's hiring procedure...
- burnished 5y ago
  I think the reason you're talking about this in the hypothetical instead of doing it is because you know it isn't a good trade off and you're being incredibly glib.
- babelfish 5y ago
  Okay, go to jail for two years. Please let me know how you fare after.
- AlexCoventry 5y ago
  Or how about we stop shaming people for contributing to causes they find worthwhile, even if they're not contributing to causes we're personally, individually invested in. https://thecorners.substack.com/p/if-you-cant-take-in-anymore-theres https://thecorners.substack.com/p/if-you-cant-take-in-anymor...

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

>And remind your wife never to touch paper money on the morning of a visit; almost every bill bears traces of drug residue, which will set off the scanners. so - America has an extremely large prison population. I've never heard this before though. I mean I've heard the money has trace amounts of drugs thing, but not when visiting family members in prison don't touch paper money. You'd think it was a common problem, people touching paper money and setting off scanners and then getting stopped, searched and maybe questioned depending on a lot of stuff, like skin color. Being black and touching money on the day of visiting a relative in prison must be in some ways an extremely dangerous thing to do. Unless of course this guy is full of shit. Or I just haven't heard of this problem which I guess is also a possibility, it's just - my sensors are going off here.

cmckn 5y ago
Highly doubt this kind of equipment is present at the majority of institutions, or that it’s sensitive enough to find the trace of a trace amount like this. Sounds cool for a movie, though
- hammock 5y ago
  Why? Prison contracts are big business. I've seen even small prisons with giant x-ray body scanners (the kind that were removed from airports, actually not those but more serious ones where you stand on a conveyor belt and your exposure is a full 3-5 seconds). A mass spectrometer of the type they use at airports for explosives, can be used for drugs and easily acquired by any prison.
0xcde4c3db 5y ago
This smells to me like a myth spread by prison staff to explain away false positives and/or discourage drug smuggling.
- zxcvbn4038 5y ago
  Agreed, prison guards are about the furthest thing possible from what you see on the CSI shows. It’s kind of a last resort job for people who can’t do anything else. When I visit people in prison I always bring my US Passport for identification because it just totally throws a wrench in the works, requires one or two supervisors to review my document, and 15-45 minutes to figure out how to enter it into the system since the passport number is twice as long as the driver’s license number and doesn’t fit in the usual entry screen. I’m sure it’s the most exciting thing to happen to them that day. Wait thirty days and everything old is new again. Once I ran into a super cop who wanted to know how I drove there and started to unholster his sidearm (obviously assuming that I was driving without a license and he was going to arrest me) but then I told him I took a cab and it just killed him and begrudgingly he waved me through to the next checkpoint. In reality I do drive myself, I just take out my license and leave it in the armrest of my car before I go in - that also blows away the myth of all cops being superhuman lie detectors with Black Widow level knowledge of body language and voice cues.

the_only_law 5y ago

> As he told me recently, “Business rewards a certain type of attitude and assertiveness—all things that will get you killed in prison.” Are these people going to the same sort of prisons where getting killed is a serious risk?

elliekelly 5y ago
I think getting killed is a serious risk in every prison in America. Even in the minimum security facilities where people serve sentences for non-violent crimes.
- AlbertCory 5y ago
  Do you actually know anyone who's been to prison? What's your source for this? I do know someone (I'm not going to disclose any details to protect his privacy). But I don't think he'd agree with you on that.
  - coldtea 5y ago
    Well, it's seems to be on the increase: https://www.statista.com/statistics/220920/number-of-state-prisoner-homicides-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/220920/number-of-state-p... And given that there are ~ 1.8 million people in prison in the US, you have 1 in 15000 chances to be murdered in prison per year. For context, your chances are 1 in 20000 in the general US population [1]. [1] From the reported 5 per 100,000 people murder rate, which includes the 0,5% of the population in prison (though the latter is such a small percentage that doesn't really change the general result).
    - Retric 5y ago
      That’s showing 120 murders across just sate prisons. “ 1,291,000 people were in state prison, 631,000 in local jails, 226,000 in federal prisons, 44,000 in youth correctional facilities, 42,000 in immigration detention camps, 22,000 in involuntary commitment, 11,000 in territorial prisons, 2,500 in Indian Country jails, and 1,300 in United States military prisons.[8]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_ra... So it’s 1 in 10,000 per year aka a 1 in 500 shot of being murdered in a 20 year prison sentence which seems dangerous but still unlikely.

Animats 5y ago

Wall Street Prison Consultants promises to “ensure you serve the shortest sentence possible in the most favorable institution.” This is an actual business.[1] [1] https://www.wallstreetprisonconsultants.com/ https://www.wallstreetprisonconsultants.com/

cbozeman 5y ago
I love that this exists. God Bless America.
siva7 5y ago
Only in america….

darkerside 5y ago

> Business rewards a certain type of attitude and assertiveness—all things that will get you killed in prison This sounds like bullshit. Those sound like things that will get you challenged but not killed. Animal nature is to challenge the strong but prey on the weak.