5 ms·

It's on the owner too I guess. The article mentions rottweiler, pit bulls, and drug sweeps, and I'm certain some of these owners get these dogs specifically for

It's on the owner too I guess. The article mentions rottweiler, pit bulls, and drug sweeps, and I'm certain some of these owners get these dogs specifically for defense, if not attack. That they end up dead is awful but I'm sure in some cases the owner is to blame more than the police.

bdcravens 5y ago
A few years ago I was getting some appliances delivered and installed. One of my dogs, a dachshund, got out the front door. As I'm corralling him, I see one of the installers sprint out the front door, slamming it behind him, in obvious fear for his life. Turns out my pit-lab wasn't in her cage, and she wanted to play with the new guy in her house. Of course, he didn't known that, and assumed she was a murderous beast wanting to go for his jugular. It's a funny story, but had he been in law enforcement (or at least armed, which will be very easy in Texas beginning September 1), I believe that same assumption would have resulted in the death of a sweet family pet.
- throwaway6734 5y ago
  It's not a funny story. Maintain control of your dog or don't have one as a pet.
  - awillen 5y ago
    Yeah, I don't really see why you're getting downvoted here. The poster let one of his dogs escape his house and left another one loose while an appliance installer who didn't know anything about the dog was there. When I have people in my house who aren't familiar with my dogs (who are friendly), I put the dogs away and let the people know exactly which door they should not open. If nothing else it's just very, very rude to leave your dog loose in the house when a worker comes in, unless they say it's okay. You don't know if they're allergic or scared of dogs, and they're there to do a job. Show them the respect of allowing them to do their job uninterrupted by your dog (and don't let your dogs escape your house... that's just basic stuff).
    - bdcravens 5y ago
      While I mostly agree with you, it was literally a chaotic situation. And like most installers, they weren't stopping to ask what was going on or if it was ok to proceed, they just start carrying stuff in like they own the place. Waiting 1-2 minutes to allow us to grab the one dog and put the other dog in her cage would have been enough on their part.
      - awillen 5y ago
        When people come to the door and you have loose dogs at home, you crack the door and say "one minute, let me put the dogs away," then close the door and put the dogs away. Or you just put them away before you open the door. It's crazy that you think appliance people coming to your door to an appointment you've scheduled with them is some uncontrollable environment in which you couldn't have done anything. It's your job to keep your dogs safe.
    - loloquwowndueo 5y ago
      “ When I have people in my house who aren't familiar with my dogs (who are friendly), I put the dogs away and let the people know exactly which door they should not open.” And then they go and open that exact door anyway. I’ve had that happen to me.
      - awillen 5y ago
        Okay, well that's still a very different scenario than just leaving your dogs loose and letting one get out when someone comes to the door.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - bdcravens 5y ago
    Someone was literally walking around in my house. The dog wanted to play. Not sure I understand "maintain control" in that context. If someone stepped on my cat's tail not looking out, would the same criticism apply?
- MichaelGroves 5y ago
  Better to run and look like a coward than to get bit. Looking like a coward in front of a stranger costs you nothing. Misjudging a dog and getting bit can cost you disfigurement or death. You know your dogs; the appliance installer doesn't. Also, I think it says something about the temperament and worldview of the owners of these dogs that they so often seem very concerned with appearing brave or cowardly.
  - bdcravens 5y ago
    Yes, and the dachshund is actually the barker and the biter. The installers didn't seem concerned with him. "worldview of the owners of these dogs": What kind of dogs? Dachshunds? Pits? Labs? In the my experience, "these dogs" is a bit of a code phrase, similar to when politicians have said "you people". As for my worldview, I am opposed to stereotypes and discrimination and do my best to consistent in that.
    - MichaelGroves 5y ago
      Why do people fear pitbulls more than yappy ankle biters? I just don't get it! Feigned ignorance will get you nowhere with me.
      - bdcravens 5y ago
        As long as we appeal to likelihoods and fear: in 2020, Pit Bulls killed 33, police kill 938. I can understand why people would run from both.
        MichaelGroves 5y ago
        Another point: bragging about how bitey your dachshund is, as though that vindicates your poorly behaved pitbull, really makes me think you shouldn't own dogs. Why didn't you train your dachshund well? I have met well behaved dachshunds, so what is your excuse? Do violent and poorly trained police justify your violent and poorly trained dogs? Is that what you're trying to say?
- dudul 5y ago
  Or maybe he had an irrational fear of dogs. Maybe he went through a trauma or something in the past. How is it funny?
  - bdcravens 5y ago
    It's not funny, as much as illustrative of stereotypes: he didn't seem worried about the dachshund, who is always more demonstratively aggressive.
    - MichaelGroves 5y ago
      A rational person is more concerned around a trained tiger than a house-cat, despite both having the same capricious-but-usually-peaceful temperament. A rational person considers not only the temperament of the animal, but also the damage it could do. Numerous grown adults have been killed by pitbulls. Dachshunds? Not so much. I think you understand this, but are pretending not to. Let me tell you, feigned ignorance is not persuasive.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Do not think this is funny or smart. Here if this happens he can denounce a dog and it will get picked up by the police if we do not have a good story. And this is not a good story. Be more careful I would think, what if the guy tripped and broke something even if the dog did nothing bad but wanted to play?
  - bdcravens 5y ago
    Then the same would be true of the dachshund, or my cat, correct?
MichaelGroves 5y ago
The premise of bloodsports appeals to dirtbags, who buy these sort of dogs and neglect to train them at best (or very often, train them to be vicious.)
tluyben2 5y ago
Not in "epidemic" amounts though. And it is always the owners fault of course. It takes a lot of horrible treatment to fuck up a dog badly. We foster a lot of dogs and ones that come in completely fucked up usually turn normal with a lot of tlc. But yes, some are screwed. Even dogs that have been beaten, on a half meter chain, in a shed in the heat for years, they still turn out out ok and don't usually bite even on first approach. You have to know how to approach ofcourse: cops with drawn guns hovering over them probably would not be ideal. Dogs that are too far gone should be put down: they basically will bite and attack anyone and anything. Still not their fault but they are gone.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  It does not take a fucked-up dog for it to be dangerous. All dogs are capable of attacking strangers. It doesn't matter that they are lovable creatures that never showed any signals of violence, then can change in seconds if them deem the situation bad enough (and what is a bad situation for a dog is really not intuitive for humans).
- edgyquant 5y ago
  Not all protective dogs are vicious. My dog is very friendly and allows people to let her, you wouldn’t think she would bite anyone. She has bit exactly one person and that person kicked my gate down on my front door attempting to burglarize my belongings. Am I at “fault” because my dog defends what she knows is our home from a total stranger she knows doesn’t belong?
edgyquant 5y ago
Does that matter? I have a dog that will protect my home and the onus should be on the police to allow me to cage her before they come in.
- laurent123456 5y ago
  I think context matters. If the dog is raised by a drug dealer to be aggressive, and is charging at the policeman, I can't really blame him if something bad happens. I don't think asking kindly to please cage the dog in this context would help.
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    You may be right about that. That doesn't mean asking first shouldn't be required. I don't think most drug dealers are ignorant enough to think their dog would protect them from the police they are likely using the dogs to defend from their customer base or rivals.

bdcravens 5y ago

A few years ago I was getting some appliances delivered and installed. One of my dogs, a dachshund, got out the front door. As I'm corralling him, I see one of the installers sprint out the front door, slamming it behind him, in obvious fear for his life. Turns out my pit-lab wasn't in her cage, and she wanted to play with the new guy in her house. Of course, he didn't known that, and assumed she was a murderous beast wanting to go for his jugular. It's a funny story, but had he been in law enforcement (or at least armed, which will be very easy in Texas beginning September 1), I believe that same assumption would have resulted in the death of a sweet family pet.

throwaway6734 5y ago
It's not a funny story. Maintain control of your dog or don't have one as a pet.
- awillen 5y ago
  Yeah, I don't really see why you're getting downvoted here. The poster let one of his dogs escape his house and left another one loose while an appliance installer who didn't know anything about the dog was there. When I have people in my house who aren't familiar with my dogs (who are friendly), I put the dogs away and let the people know exactly which door they should not open. If nothing else it's just very, very rude to leave your dog loose in the house when a worker comes in, unless they say it's okay. You don't know if they're allergic or scared of dogs, and they're there to do a job. Show them the respect of allowing them to do their job uninterrupted by your dog (and don't let your dogs escape your house... that's just basic stuff).
  - bdcravens 5y ago
    While I mostly agree with you, it was literally a chaotic situation. And like most installers, they weren't stopping to ask what was going on or if it was ok to proceed, they just start carrying stuff in like they own the place. Waiting 1-2 minutes to allow us to grab the one dog and put the other dog in her cage would have been enough on their part.
    - awillen 5y ago
      When people come to the door and you have loose dogs at home, you crack the door and say "one minute, let me put the dogs away," then close the door and put the dogs away. Or you just put them away before you open the door. It's crazy that you think appliance people coming to your door to an appointment you've scheduled with them is some uncontrollable environment in which you couldn't have done anything. It's your job to keep your dogs safe.
  - loloquwowndueo 5y ago
    “ When I have people in my house who aren't familiar with my dogs (who are friendly), I put the dogs away and let the people know exactly which door they should not open.” And then they go and open that exact door anyway. I’ve had that happen to me.
    - awillen 5y ago
      Okay, well that's still a very different scenario than just leaving your dogs loose and letting one get out when someone comes to the door.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bdcravens 5y ago
  Someone was literally walking around in my house. The dog wanted to play. Not sure I understand "maintain control" in that context. If someone stepped on my cat's tail not looking out, would the same criticism apply?
MichaelGroves 5y ago
Better to run and look like a coward than to get bit. Looking like a coward in front of a stranger costs you nothing. Misjudging a dog and getting bit can cost you disfigurement or death. You know your dogs; the appliance installer doesn't. Also, I think it says something about the temperament and worldview of the owners of these dogs that they so often seem very concerned with appearing brave or cowardly.
- bdcravens 5y ago
  Yes, and the dachshund is actually the barker and the biter. The installers didn't seem concerned with him. "worldview of the owners of these dogs": What kind of dogs? Dachshunds? Pits? Labs? In the my experience, "these dogs" is a bit of a code phrase, similar to when politicians have said "you people". As for my worldview, I am opposed to stereotypes and discrimination and do my best to consistent in that.
  - MichaelGroves 5y ago
    Why do people fear pitbulls more than yappy ankle biters? I just don't get it! Feigned ignorance will get you nowhere with me.
    - bdcravens 5y ago
      As long as we appeal to likelihoods and fear: in 2020, Pit Bulls killed 33, police kill 938. I can understand why people would run from both.
      - MichaelGroves 5y ago
        Another point: bragging about how bitey your dachshund is, as though that vindicates your poorly behaved pitbull, really makes me think you shouldn't own dogs. Why didn't you train your dachshund well? I have met well behaved dachshunds, so what is your excuse? Do violent and poorly trained police justify your violent and poorly trained dogs? Is that what you're trying to say?
dudul 5y ago
Or maybe he had an irrational fear of dogs. Maybe he went through a trauma or something in the past. How is it funny?
- bdcravens 5y ago
  It's not funny, as much as illustrative of stereotypes: he didn't seem worried about the dachshund, who is always more demonstratively aggressive.
  - MichaelGroves 5y ago
    A rational person is more concerned around a trained tiger than a house-cat, despite both having the same capricious-but-usually-peaceful temperament. A rational person considers not only the temperament of the animal, but also the damage it could do. Numerous grown adults have been killed by pitbulls. Dachshunds? Not so much. I think you understand this, but are pretending not to. Let me tell you, feigned ignorance is not persuasive.
tluyben2 5y ago
Do not think this is funny or smart. Here if this happens he can denounce a dog and it will get picked up by the police if we do not have a good story. And this is not a good story. Be more careful I would think, what if the guy tripped and broke something even if the dog did nothing bad but wanted to play?
- bdcravens 5y ago
  Then the same would be true of the dachshund, or my cat, correct?

MichaelGroves 5y ago

The premise of bloodsports appeals to dirtbags, who buy these sort of dogs and neglect to train them at best (or very often, train them to be vicious.)

tluyben2 5y ago

Not in "epidemic" amounts though. And it is always the owners fault of course. It takes a lot of horrible treatment to fuck up a dog badly. We foster a lot of dogs and ones that come in completely fucked up usually turn normal with a lot of tlc. But yes, some are screwed. Even dogs that have been beaten, on a half meter chain, in a shed in the heat for years, they still turn out out ok and don't usually bite even on first approach. You have to know how to approach ofcourse: cops with drawn guns hovering over them probably would not be ideal. Dogs that are too far gone should be put down: they basically will bite and attack anyone and anything. Still not their fault but they are gone.

marcosdumay 5y ago
It does not take a fucked-up dog for it to be dangerous. All dogs are capable of attacking strangers. It doesn't matter that they are lovable creatures that never showed any signals of violence, then can change in seconds if them deem the situation bad enough (and what is a bad situation for a dog is really not intuitive for humans).
edgyquant 5y ago
Not all protective dogs are vicious. My dog is very friendly and allows people to let her, you wouldn’t think she would bite anyone. She has bit exactly one person and that person kicked my gate down on my front door attempting to burglarize my belongings. Am I at “fault” because my dog defends what she knows is our home from a total stranger she knows doesn’t belong?

edgyquant 5y ago

Does that matter? I have a dog that will protect my home and the onus should be on the police to allow me to cage her before they come in.

laurent123456 5y ago
I think context matters. If the dog is raised by a drug dealer to be aggressive, and is charging at the policeman, I can't really blame him if something bad happens. I don't think asking kindly to please cage the dog in this context would help.
- edgyquant 5y ago
  You may be right about that. That doesn't mean asking first shouldn't be required. I don't think most drug dealers are ignorant enough to think their dog would protect them from the police they are likely using the dogs to defend from their customer base or rivals.