5 ms·

Even if, for argument's sake, one accepts your claim, it's quite clear that the policies are not going to change. I'm a native Californian who left and now liv

Even if, for argument's sake, one accepts your claim, it's quite clear that the policies are not going to change. I'm a native Californian who left and now lives overseas, and every visit back has not only provided a stark demonstration of California's decline, but also taught me that many Californians refuse to believe their lying eyes. I have friends and family who in the past 5 years have lost homes to fire, seen their wells run dry, had to flee from toxic wildfire air, etc. and yet all but one of them has stayed. It's insanity in my humble opinion and I think if more Californians had an opportunity to spend some time away from the state, more of them would realize that the state is in great peril. It literally and figuratively is a case of the frog in boiling water.

epistasis 5y ago
Things are changing, as the entrenched interests die from old age. Last year, Prop 15 nearly eliminated the Prop 13 for commercial properties. That this was even within 10% points of passing is such a huge change as to be unthinkable. 15 years ago I would rant about Prop 13 and get nothing but hate from others for my position. These days I'm as likely to find somebody ranting about the evils of Prop 13 as I am to initiate the rants. And the only people I see really arguing for Prop 13 are in the dying our demographics of newspaper comment sections and NextDoor, and nearly no one I meet in person. We have a huge problem with Boomers and their heirs, but immigration is rapidly changing eh demographics to allow for more sound governance.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  Hope springs eternal in California, but unfortunately water does not.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    Lol, I love the slogan, and it may be true. But I will go down fighting this fight, and in my estimation it is getting easier to fight, even if it's not yet clear who will win. I would not blame anyone for leaving, given the current insanity of state and local politics, but I also welcome the growing crowd of politically active young people that have far more skin in the game than the aged "got mine, forget you crowd. So if you ever do return, get in touch with local political orgs and you will be making a positive difference.
    - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
      Political organizations, on both/all sides, are in my opinion a big part of the problem in California. Everything in California is turned into a political issue when it doesn't need to be.
    - fortran77 5y ago
      > than the aged Why do we tolerate ageism on Hacker News? @dang
  - bsder 5y ago
    Consumer water needs are just fine. The coastal areas where most people live are building desalinization plants and will keep doing so until consumer water needs are met. When you talk about California water crisis, you are talking about California Agribusiness water crisis. Yes, the farms in the Central Valley will eventually eat themselves like Easter Island once they drain the aquifer completely.
    - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
      Desalination is not a magic panacea. It requires significant amounts of energy and has significant environmental impacts. As for the Central Valley, when the farms "eat themselves", have you considered that growing numbers of Americans will have to do the same? The Central Valley produces a quarter of the nation's food even though it represents 1% of the nation's farmland.
- fortran77 5y ago
  > the only people I see really arguing for Prop 13 are in the dying our demographics of newspaper comment sections and NextDoor, and nearly no one I meet in person. I like Prop 13. I'd be more than happy to meet you in person. California has the highest sales tax and income tax in the nation. The amount of revenue it gets from property tax is near the median for the U.S. I think they get enough money and don't need more.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    Repealing prop 13 doesn't have to mean taxes go up. Housing can be kept in check by adequate property taxes while lowering income taxes at the same time.
    - omgwtfbyobbq 5y ago
      It can. To me, this is the usual debate between taxing income and taxing wealth. They each have their positives and negatives.
      - imtringued 5y ago
        There aren't any meaningful negatives to taxing land because it doesn't disappear when you tax it. Sure, if you tax factories and housing those will "move" to a different location.
    - fortran77 5y ago
      Do you really think CA will lower income taxes?

epistasis 5y ago

Things are changing, as the entrenched interests die from old age. Last year, Prop 15 nearly eliminated the Prop 13 for commercial properties. That this was even within 10% points of passing is such a huge change as to be unthinkable. 15 years ago I would rant about Prop 13 and get nothing but hate from others for my position. These days I'm as likely to find somebody ranting about the evils of Prop 13 as I am to initiate the rants. And the only people I see really arguing for Prop 13 are in the dying our demographics of newspaper comment sections and NextDoor, and nearly no one I meet in person. We have a huge problem with Boomers and their heirs, but immigration is rapidly changing eh demographics to allow for more sound governance.

LurkingPenguin 5y ago
Hope springs eternal in California, but unfortunately water does not.
- epistasis 5y ago
  Lol, I love the slogan, and it may be true. But I will go down fighting this fight, and in my estimation it is getting easier to fight, even if it's not yet clear who will win. I would not blame anyone for leaving, given the current insanity of state and local politics, but I also welcome the growing crowd of politically active young people that have far more skin in the game than the aged "got mine, forget you crowd. So if you ever do return, get in touch with local political orgs and you will be making a positive difference.
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    Political organizations, on both/all sides, are in my opinion a big part of the problem in California. Everything in California is turned into a political issue when it doesn't need to be.
  - fortran77 5y ago
    > than the aged Why do we tolerate ageism on Hacker News? @dang
- bsder 5y ago
  Consumer water needs are just fine. The coastal areas where most people live are building desalinization plants and will keep doing so until consumer water needs are met. When you talk about California water crisis, you are talking about California Agribusiness water crisis. Yes, the farms in the Central Valley will eventually eat themselves like Easter Island once they drain the aquifer completely.
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    Desalination is not a magic panacea. It requires significant amounts of energy and has significant environmental impacts. As for the Central Valley, when the farms "eat themselves", have you considered that growing numbers of Americans will have to do the same? The Central Valley produces a quarter of the nation's food even though it represents 1% of the nation's farmland.
fortran77 5y ago
> the only people I see really arguing for Prop 13 are in the dying our demographics of newspaper comment sections and NextDoor, and nearly no one I meet in person. I like Prop 13. I'd be more than happy to meet you in person. California has the highest sales tax and income tax in the nation. The amount of revenue it gets from property tax is near the median for the U.S. I think they get enough money and don't need more.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  Repealing prop 13 doesn't have to mean taxes go up. Housing can be kept in check by adequate property taxes while lowering income taxes at the same time.
  - omgwtfbyobbq 5y ago
    It can. To me, this is the usual debate between taxing income and taxing wealth. They each have their positives and negatives.
    - imtringued 5y ago
      There aren't any meaningful negatives to taxing land because it doesn't disappear when you tax it. Sure, if you tax factories and housing those will "move" to a different location.
  - fortran77 5y ago
    Do you really think CA will lower income taxes?