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The government website stats support the claim: ~29% of the entire US homeless population is in California, which is disproportional when compared to other stat

The government website stats support the claim: ~29% of the entire US homeless population is in California, which is disproportional when compared to other state population densities.[1] That said, the piece doesn't offer much constructive advice on how to fix it. Californians have been witnessing the very real, large increase in tent cities, addicts, feces, ... for years now, but so far they still vote for the same people and policies that create the problem. In the Bay Area, they at one time had "Sit/Lie" laws prohibiting loitering -- but the locals condemned them as cruel and inhumane. Instead, they advocate that it's ones right to camp in the public park. Even when Gavin Newsom was mayor of San Fran, he tried to enact a "Care not Cash" program to get people into mental health services instead of cash handouts; the people turned on him, and even set fire to his front lawn in protest. Californians are getting precisely the kind of world they've voted for. It's ugly, and it literally stinks. Yes, how to fix it is the question, but I'm not sure the people have had enough yet. The recall election of Newsom next month will be an indicator. If he's recalled, then a new day of hope begins. Hope, anyway.... [1] https://www.usich.gov/homelessness-statistics/ca https://www.usich.gov/homelessness-statistics/ca

deleted 5y ago
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alisonkisk 5y ago
The callous disregard for human life exhibited in this post is sickening. My office has a janitorial staff. Why don't public spaces? Too many people in public parks? Claw back more public park space, maybe from the automobile lanes and parks that infest our cities and spew far more stinky poison than people living rough.
- s5300 5y ago
  A fair amount of those who frequent this site are purely concerned with how to squeeze the most profit out of the most people possible, no matter the collateral damage that may come from those goals. I'm not sure how you could be surprised.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  > My office has a janitorial staff. Why don't public spaces? San Francisco spends tens of millions of dollar a year cleaning its streets. https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-spent-54-million-street-cleanup-2018-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-spent-54-milli... > Too many people in public parks? Claw back more public park space... The issue isn't the number of people in public parks. The issue is that people are using public parks (and other public spaces) to set up encampments, which is not the purpose of these public spaces. In fact, this infringes on the rights of the people who want to use these spaces for legal purposes.
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    Unless you have a better idea as to where these people should go, just saying that they shouldn’t be there isn’t very useful.
    - betwixthewires 5y ago
      That's not true, acknowledging the problem is the first step to coming up with a solution.
  - webmaven 5y ago
    > The issue isn't the number of people in public parks. The issue is that people are using public parks (and other public spaces) to set up encampments, which is not the purpose of these public spaces. In fact, this infringes on the rights of the people who want to use these spaces for legal purposes. All right, where do you think the encampments should be set up?
    - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
      I find it interesting that you apparently have the belief that such encampments should or need to exist.
      - webmaven 5y ago
- hack-news 5y ago
  This website is filled to the brim with limousine liberal assholes.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  Sickening is it? You're physically ill from reading that? We can talk frankly about real problems as they exist, their potential causes and solutions, and we can be right, wrong and everywhere in between. But what we can't do is continue looking for excuses to get outraged so as to feel morally superior to other people. If you want to see where that gets us, look no further the homeless problem in California.
- dang 5y ago
  Would you please review the site guidelines and stick to them? They include: "Please don't fulminate." "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." "Eschew flamebait." Edit: actually, because you're repeatedly abusing this site, I've banned this and several other accounts. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28335658 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28335658
jrochkind1 5y ago
Assuming those statistics are trustworthy (which I don't necessarily, homeless people are notoriously undercounted by the census for instance and may be unevenly counted in different places), maybe more people become homeless in CA. I guess I'd want to know what % of the homeless population were recent transplants to CA vs what % of CA residents in general are recent transplants. Also, if they are homeless and recent transplants to CA, were they homeless before they moved to CA? Before assuming lots of homeless people are moving to CA more research required than that single number. And then even if so... so what? I assume the point is doing something about people who have no homes, like reducing the number of people who have no homes. Perhaps we'd also want to know why they are moving to CA to begin with. Perhaps we'd say CA should get federal funding to deal with it's disproportional homeless problem, and then figure out the best use of that funding. I dunno. Like, is the point something other than blaming homeless people for being homeless, or punishing people for being homeless, or make people's lives harder when they are homeless -- cause, what does that do, what's the point of that you think?
wozniacki 5y ago
Californians are getting precisely the kind of world they've voted for. It's ugly, and it literally stinks. Yes, how to fix it is the question, but I'm not sure the people have had enough yet. The recall election of Newsom next month will be an indicator. If he's recalled, then a new day of hope begins. This. Sums it up neatly. Popular wisdom says Newsom has large enough money bags to defeat the recall effort quite handily. I personally do not think Californians have had enough, despite everything we have seen over the last few years - with the wildfires, PG&E's planned blackouts, ever burgeoning taxes with jack all to show for it, school boards prioritizing campaigns to rename schools honoring racist historical figures over everything else, general wasteful expenditure & graft etc. ...the people turned on him, and even set fire to his front lawn in protest. That's putting it a tad mildly, given what happened. July 2009 - Then-mayor Gavin Newsom and wife Jennifer Siebel Newsom had only just moved into a new home in the Upper Haight when their front stoop was promptly defecated upon.[1] [1] A Brief History Of Poop On The Streets Of San Francisco https://sfist.com/2019/05/01/a-brief-history-of-poop-on-the-streets-of-san-francisco/ https://sfist.com/2019/05/01/a-brief-history-of-poop-on-the-...
klyrs 5y ago
Your response to > Rather than asking "Who can we blame?" maybe we could start asking "How do we fix it?" Is to (1) complain about a lack of constructive solutions, (2) blame Newsom and (3) not provide a constructive solution. "Hope" is free though. You can have mine, I wasn't using it.
- aksss 5y ago
  I see your point, but I read GP a little different - the solution they mentioned is to stop voting for leadership that is perpetuating the problem with garbage policies. That combines the blame and solution in one statement, but is a constructive solution. You don't like the policies or realities of CA? Stop voting for people that implement and double down on the policies creating the realities. Not much of a dog in this fight, but if CA can solve the problem it would help a lot of other cities/states that look to CA for guidance.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    "Stop voting for people" is kinda the problem with California. Since the US is a 2-party system, and California is leftish, California is effectively a single-party system. So the people get, more or less, what the party picks for them. On the other hand, "dismantle the 2-party system" is quite the yak-shave.
UncleMeat 5y ago
I do like how you can always tell who is criticizing from afar when they say "San Fran" rather than something that a local would actually say.
URSpider94 5y ago
Can you please explain how criminalizing homelessness, for example by enforcing sit/lie ordinances, would help homeless people find homes? Likewise, getting people into mental health services is not likely to get them a place to live. You seem to think that somehow “getting tough” on homeless people is going to make them straighten up and find a place to live, when in reality it will just cause them to move out of your view, so you don’t have to see them any longer.
hash872 5y ago
I basically agree with everything you've said here, but one nitpick: >In the Bay Area, they at one time had "Sit/Lie" laws prohibiting loitering -- but the locals condemned them as cruel and inhumane. Instead, they advocate that it's ones right to camp in the public park. The larger issue is that US courts have repeatedly struck down loitering laws, which makes their enforcement impossible. Cities now can't legally restrict people hanging out on their sidewalks, public spaces etc.
imtringued 5y ago
The solution is very simple, tax the land.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

alisonkisk 5y ago

The callous disregard for human life exhibited in this post is sickening. My office has a janitorial staff. Why don't public spaces? Too many people in public parks? Claw back more public park space, maybe from the automobile lanes and parks that infest our cities and spew far more stinky poison than people living rough.

s5300 5y ago
A fair amount of those who frequent this site are purely concerned with how to squeeze the most profit out of the most people possible, no matter the collateral damage that may come from those goals. I'm not sure how you could be surprised.
LurkingPenguin 5y ago
> My office has a janitorial staff. Why don't public spaces? San Francisco spends tens of millions of dollar a year cleaning its streets. https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-spent-54-million-street-cleanup-2018-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-spent-54-milli... > Too many people in public parks? Claw back more public park space... The issue isn't the number of people in public parks. The issue is that people are using public parks (and other public spaces) to set up encampments, which is not the purpose of these public spaces. In fact, this infringes on the rights of the people who want to use these spaces for legal purposes.
- amanaplanacanal 5y ago
  Unless you have a better idea as to where these people should go, just saying that they shouldn’t be there isn’t very useful.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    That's not true, acknowledging the problem is the first step to coming up with a solution.
- webmaven 5y ago
  > The issue isn't the number of people in public parks. The issue is that people are using public parks (and other public spaces) to set up encampments, which is not the purpose of these public spaces. In fact, this infringes on the rights of the people who want to use these spaces for legal purposes. All right, where do you think the encampments should be set up?
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    I find it interesting that you apparently have the belief that such encampments should or need to exist.
    - webmaven 5y ago
hack-news 5y ago
This website is filled to the brim with limousine liberal assholes.
betwixthewires 5y ago
Sickening is it? You're physically ill from reading that? We can talk frankly about real problems as they exist, their potential causes and solutions, and we can be right, wrong and everywhere in between. But what we can't do is continue looking for excuses to get outraged so as to feel morally superior to other people. If you want to see where that gets us, look no further the homeless problem in California.
dang 5y ago
Would you please review the site guidelines and stick to them? They include: "Please don't fulminate." "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." "Eschew flamebait." Edit: actually, because you're repeatedly abusing this site, I've banned this and several other accounts. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28335658 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28335658

jrochkind1 5y ago

Assuming those statistics are trustworthy (which I don't necessarily, homeless people are notoriously undercounted by the census for instance and may be unevenly counted in different places), maybe more people become homeless in CA. I guess I'd want to know what % of the homeless population were recent transplants to CA vs what % of CA residents in general are recent transplants. Also, if they are homeless and recent transplants to CA, were they homeless before they moved to CA? Before assuming lots of homeless people are moving to CA more research required than that single number. And then even if so... so what? I assume the point is doing something about people who have no homes, like reducing the number of people who have no homes. Perhaps we'd also want to know why they are moving to CA to begin with. Perhaps we'd say CA should get federal funding to deal with it's disproportional homeless problem, and then figure out the best use of that funding. I dunno. Like, is the point something other than blaming homeless people for being homeless, or punishing people for being homeless, or make people's lives harder when they are homeless -- cause, what does that do, what's the point of that you think?

wozniacki 5y ago

Californians are getting precisely the kind of world they've voted for. It's ugly, and it literally stinks. Yes, how to fix it is the question, but I'm not sure the people have had enough yet. The recall election of Newsom next month will be an indicator. If he's recalled, then a new day of hope begins. This. Sums it up neatly. Popular wisdom says Newsom has large enough money bags to defeat the recall effort quite handily. I personally do not think Californians have had enough, despite everything we have seen over the last few years - with the wildfires, PG&E's planned blackouts, ever burgeoning taxes with jack all to show for it, school boards prioritizing campaigns to rename schools honoring racist historical figures over everything else, general wasteful expenditure & graft etc. ...the people turned on him, and even set fire to his front lawn in protest. That's putting it a tad mildly, given what happened. July 2009 - Then-mayor Gavin Newsom and wife Jennifer Siebel Newsom had only just moved into a new home in the Upper Haight when their front stoop was promptly defecated upon.[1] [1] A Brief History Of Poop On The Streets Of San Francisco https://sfist.com/2019/05/01/a-brief-history-of-poop-on-the-streets-of-san-francisco/ https://sfist.com/2019/05/01/a-brief-history-of-poop-on-the-...

klyrs 5y ago

Your response to > Rather than asking "Who can we blame?" maybe we could start asking "How do we fix it?" Is to (1) complain about a lack of constructive solutions, (2) blame Newsom and (3) not provide a constructive solution. "Hope" is free though. You can have mine, I wasn't using it.

aksss 5y ago
I see your point, but I read GP a little different - the solution they mentioned is to stop voting for leadership that is perpetuating the problem with garbage policies. That combines the blame and solution in one statement, but is a constructive solution. You don't like the policies or realities of CA? Stop voting for people that implement and double down on the policies creating the realities. Not much of a dog in this fight, but if CA can solve the problem it would help a lot of other cities/states that look to CA for guidance.
- klyrs 5y ago
  "Stop voting for people" is kinda the problem with California. Since the US is a 2-party system, and California is leftish, California is effectively a single-party system. So the people get, more or less, what the party picks for them. On the other hand, "dismantle the 2-party system" is quite the yak-shave.

UncleMeat 5y ago

I do like how you can always tell who is criticizing from afar when they say "San Fran" rather than something that a local would actually say.

URSpider94 5y ago

Can you please explain how criminalizing homelessness, for example by enforcing sit/lie ordinances, would help homeless people find homes? Likewise, getting people into mental health services is not likely to get them a place to live. You seem to think that somehow “getting tough” on homeless people is going to make them straighten up and find a place to live, when in reality it will just cause them to move out of your view, so you don’t have to see them any longer.

hash872 5y ago

I basically agree with everything you've said here, but one nitpick: >In the Bay Area, they at one time had "Sit/Lie" laws prohibiting loitering -- but the locals condemned them as cruel and inhumane. Instead, they advocate that it's ones right to camp in the public park. The larger issue is that US courts have repeatedly struck down loitering laws, which makes their enforcement impossible. Cities now can't legally restrict people hanging out on their sidewalks, public spaces etc.

imtringued 5y ago

The solution is very simple, tax the land.