5 ms·

I recommend the Balkans, in particular the less touristic countries. Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, Bulgaria are all very inexpensive, safe, have reliable internet, a

I recommend the Balkans, in particular the less touristic countries. Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, Bulgaria are all very inexpensive, safe, have reliable internet, and an abundance of cafes and co-working spaces. Most also have favorable visa conditions for Americans (e.g. Albania lets Americans stay up to a year on a tourist visa.) In terms of cities, I recommend Belgrade and Sarajevo the most. Going further east, Tbilisi (Georgia) and Lviv (Ukraine) are also very inexpensive yet safe and filled with interesting culture. Due to the Turkish lira collapsing, Turkey is also very inexpensive if you have USD. You can rent an apartment in central Istanbul for ±$400 a month.

giantg2 5y ago
You list Ukraine as safe. How's the current thing with Russia?
- keiferski 5y ago
  Lviv is in the western part of Ukraine, about 1,000km from the fighting in the east. Completely safe. For comparison, Lviv to Donetsk is a greater distance than Berlin to Paris or London to Milan, and only slightly less than New York to Chicago.
  - dougmwne 5y ago
    I have heard very nice things about Lviv from friends and family, small but very pretty and extremely cheap.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
41209 5y ago
>Due to the Turkish lira collapsing That doesn't bold well for stability. Hungry did appear on my list, the rent seems very very low. Right now I'm trying to see where COVID-19 will be in a few months. If it's still not possible to travel easily, I might need to stay and save for a bit longer.
- keiferski 5y ago
  The lira has been down for quite some time. I wouldn't consider it indicative of future instability. Hungary is also a good (and affordable) choice. Budapest is probably one of the most interesting cities in Europe, IMO.
  - Macha 5y ago
    Hungary does have the Orban and anti-LGBT situations, so your personal comfort at living in such an environment is something to consider.
    - therufa 5y ago
      It's not as severe as advertised.
- throw63738 5y ago
  Turkey is stable, maybe there could be revolution, but normal traveler will hardly notice. Airport may be closed for couple of days. I was there during coup. Also turkey is big and diverse, so if borders closes, it is still large country to travel. It hardly puts any limitations on foreigners.
kodzoman 5y ago
I second this, I would add Croatia to the list if you stay out of Zagreb and Split and even seaside tourist towns are doable for $300 out of season (October to June). Also Croatia offers a digital nomad visa which means you don't pay most of the taxes there.
- mdp2021 5y ago
  Which levels of security will you find in Croatia - including appropriate behaviour of public officers, such as the police? Also - how widespread is the understanding of the English language?
  - dougmwne 5y ago
    From what I understand it is very safe and fairly low corruption. English is widespread, especially in cities and costal towns with tourism. It is an absolutely gorgeous country, very Italian in character, but minus the chaos and cheaper as well.
    - wheels 5y ago
      Low corruption is not a reasonable description of any of the Balkan countries. Croatia is a little bit better than Serbia, Montenegro and Albania, but on corruption indexes is still considered to be one of the most corrupt countries in Europe.
      - keiferski 5y ago
        This is really not something that a tourist / remote worker will ever experience.
        wheels 5y ago
        Not in Croatia, but I have experienced corruption as a tourist in Serbia and Bosnia: - Serbia: Driving in Novi Sad, and another driver illegally passed me and hit my car coming back into traffic, causing a few hundred euro in damage to my car. He got out and yelled me and then drove off before exchanging any info. I had photos of his license plates, but multiple Serbian friends advised me to not deal with it because it would ultimately come down to who was more able to deal with the nuance of bribing the police. On the other hand, I once stupidly left my Macbook Pro on a flight landing in Belgrade, and it ended up in the hands of the airport police, who handled everything professionally. - Bosnia: Driving into the country, with insurance that's valid in Bosnia (and every country in Europe), which it says right on my insurance form. The immigration officer denies this and sends me over to his buddy 20m away to buy "Bosnian insurance". Only €30, but definitely corruption.
la_fayette 5y ago
I can also highly recommend Bulgaria (Sofia). With 1000$ you'll have a decent lifestyle there. I did my Erasmus there with less money. The people are extremely helpful and friendly to foreigners. There is also a tech scene with meetups etc, were you can connect with other people. As a side note BG has the most beatiful women in the world...
academia_hack 5y ago
Yeah. The quality of life available in many of these major Balkan cities is on-par with anywhere else in Europe for a tiny fraction of the price. You can find lovely flats in the urban center Sofia, Bulgaria for less than $500 pcm, pay basically no local taxes, access the quality of music/museums/restaurants you'd expect in any other capital city, use a solid public transport system, and get healthcare that beats the USA in both quality and cost. Add in a gorgeous countryside, safety orders of magnitude better than major US cities, and decent English skills among the younger generations and it's a very easy place to pass a year or two. Something to consider for retirement too. Trying to convince my parents to give that a go, since they'd be able to live like kings on their modest savings rather than developing ulcers from constant fear of retirement ending healthcare mishaps.
zucked 5y ago
I lived in Albania for three years - it's not at the level of the other countries on this list. It's firmly a developing country - water, electricity and other infrastructure are not great in the capital and degrade precipitously in the countryside and second-tier cities. It's a great place if you're adventurous - if you're looking for stability, it isn't the place for you. Upsides are that Albanians love Americans (as opposed to the Serbs, who often harbor a grudge) and generally speak at least some english. Prices for things like coffee, etc. are low. Albanians also have not been very good stewards of their environments, either - litter is a constant, nobody gives an "F" about rules and regulations, practically all the endemic animals have disappeared, and waterways, including beaches, are quite polluted. Cities are a hodgepodge of chaotic construction and barely-functioning infrastructure. I lived roughly here: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3170299,19.8070025,3a,60y,241.71h,91.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-Eu9ObLzgR9-HkID5jnXjg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3170299,19.8070025,3a,60y,24... If that kind of scene excites you, perhaps Albania is for you.
- keiferski 5y ago
  Eh, it’s the Balkans. I wouldn’t call it a developing country, but sure, many parts of this region are rough around the edges in terms of infrastructure.
- ddorian43 5y ago
  That's one of the better places (Komuna e Parisit). The lake is literally 10 minutes walking. But if you're paying $500/month for 100m2 in this photo, 10 minutes walking away that you have a view of the lake it's 2x-5x+. And in 3 minutes walking distance you have every type of service that exists in the city.
- 41209 5y ago
  That actually looks very nice compared to the parts of America I grew up in.
wheels 5y ago
I'd largely agree on the Balkans, though the trick would either to be in one of the large cities, or in the real countryside. A lot of the smaller cities are pretty depressing. I've been to every country in the Balkans except for Romania (which barely qualifies), and in terms of bang-for-your-buck, Tirana is probably one of the more interesting cities. It has less gritty big-city feeling (if that's your thing) than Sofia or Belgrade, but still a surprisingly nice central district (for Europe's second poorest country). I have even recommended it specifically for cases like this: it's a cheap place to hang out in Europe that feels genuinely European, but where the cost of living is more on par with Latin America. Parts of Greece can also be surprisingly affordable (with much better infrastructure than Albania), particularly if you hit a place that's a summer hot-spot in the off-season.
- atmosx 5y ago
  Smaller towns in North Greece can be cheap nowadays. Especially the ones that don't have universities. About the infrastructure, might good or awful, depends on where you live.

giantg2 5y ago

You list Ukraine as safe. How's the current thing with Russia?

keiferski 5y ago
Lviv is in the western part of Ukraine, about 1,000km from the fighting in the east. Completely safe. For comparison, Lviv to Donetsk is a greater distance than Berlin to Paris or London to Milan, and only slightly less than New York to Chicago.
- dougmwne 5y ago
  I have heard very nice things about Lviv from friends and family, small but very pretty and extremely cheap.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

41209 5y ago

>Due to the Turkish lira collapsing That doesn't bold well for stability. Hungry did appear on my list, the rent seems very very low. Right now I'm trying to see where COVID-19 will be in a few months. If it's still not possible to travel easily, I might need to stay and save for a bit longer.

keiferski 5y ago
The lira has been down for quite some time. I wouldn't consider it indicative of future instability. Hungary is also a good (and affordable) choice. Budapest is probably one of the most interesting cities in Europe, IMO.
- Macha 5y ago
  Hungary does have the Orban and anti-LGBT situations, so your personal comfort at living in such an environment is something to consider.
  - therufa 5y ago
    It's not as severe as advertised.
throw63738 5y ago
Turkey is stable, maybe there could be revolution, but normal traveler will hardly notice. Airport may be closed for couple of days. I was there during coup. Also turkey is big and diverse, so if borders closes, it is still large country to travel. It hardly puts any limitations on foreigners.

kodzoman 5y ago

I second this, I would add Croatia to the list if you stay out of Zagreb and Split and even seaside tourist towns are doable for $300 out of season (October to June). Also Croatia offers a digital nomad visa which means you don't pay most of the taxes there.

mdp2021 5y ago
Which levels of security will you find in Croatia - including appropriate behaviour of public officers, such as the police? Also - how widespread is the understanding of the English language?
- dougmwne 5y ago
  From what I understand it is very safe and fairly low corruption. English is widespread, especially in cities and costal towns with tourism. It is an absolutely gorgeous country, very Italian in character, but minus the chaos and cheaper as well.
  - wheels 5y ago
    Low corruption is not a reasonable description of any of the Balkan countries. Croatia is a little bit better than Serbia, Montenegro and Albania, but on corruption indexes is still considered to be one of the most corrupt countries in Europe.
    - keiferski 5y ago
      This is really not something that a tourist / remote worker will ever experience.
      - wheels 5y ago
        Not in Croatia, but I have experienced corruption as a tourist in Serbia and Bosnia: - Serbia: Driving in Novi Sad, and another driver illegally passed me and hit my car coming back into traffic, causing a few hundred euro in damage to my car. He got out and yelled me and then drove off before exchanging any info. I had photos of his license plates, but multiple Serbian friends advised me to not deal with it because it would ultimately come down to who was more able to deal with the nuance of bribing the police. On the other hand, I once stupidly left my Macbook Pro on a flight landing in Belgrade, and it ended up in the hands of the airport police, who handled everything professionally. - Bosnia: Driving into the country, with insurance that's valid in Bosnia (and every country in Europe), which it says right on my insurance form. The immigration officer denies this and sends me over to his buddy 20m away to buy "Bosnian insurance". Only €30, but definitely corruption.

la_fayette 5y ago

I can also highly recommend Bulgaria (Sofia). With 1000$ you'll have a decent lifestyle there. I did my Erasmus there with less money. The people are extremely helpful and friendly to foreigners. There is also a tech scene with meetups etc, were you can connect with other people. As a side note BG has the most beatiful women in the world...

academia_hack 5y ago

Yeah. The quality of life available in many of these major Balkan cities is on-par with anywhere else in Europe for a tiny fraction of the price. You can find lovely flats in the urban center Sofia, Bulgaria for less than $500 pcm, pay basically no local taxes, access the quality of music/museums/restaurants you'd expect in any other capital city, use a solid public transport system, and get healthcare that beats the USA in both quality and cost. Add in a gorgeous countryside, safety orders of magnitude better than major US cities, and decent English skills among the younger generations and it's a very easy place to pass a year or two. Something to consider for retirement too. Trying to convince my parents to give that a go, since they'd be able to live like kings on their modest savings rather than developing ulcers from constant fear of retirement ending healthcare mishaps.

zucked 5y ago

I lived in Albania for three years - it's not at the level of the other countries on this list. It's firmly a developing country - water, electricity and other infrastructure are not great in the capital and degrade precipitously in the countryside and second-tier cities. It's a great place if you're adventurous - if you're looking for stability, it isn't the place for you. Upsides are that Albanians love Americans (as opposed to the Serbs, who often harbor a grudge) and generally speak at least some english. Prices for things like coffee, etc. are low. Albanians also have not been very good stewards of their environments, either - litter is a constant, nobody gives an "F" about rules and regulations, practically all the endemic animals have disappeared, and waterways, including beaches, are quite polluted. Cities are a hodgepodge of chaotic construction and barely-functioning infrastructure. I lived roughly here: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3170299,19.8070025,3a,60y,241.71h,91.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-Eu9ObLzgR9-HkID5jnXjg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3170299,19.8070025,3a,60y,24... If that kind of scene excites you, perhaps Albania is for you.

keiferski 5y ago
Eh, it’s the Balkans. I wouldn’t call it a developing country, but sure, many parts of this region are rough around the edges in terms of infrastructure.
ddorian43 5y ago
That's one of the better places (Komuna e Parisit). The lake is literally 10 minutes walking. But if you're paying $500/month for 100m2 in this photo, 10 minutes walking away that you have a view of the lake it's 2x-5x+. And in 3 minutes walking distance you have every type of service that exists in the city.
41209 5y ago
That actually looks very nice compared to the parts of America I grew up in.

wheels 5y ago

I'd largely agree on the Balkans, though the trick would either to be in one of the large cities, or in the real countryside. A lot of the smaller cities are pretty depressing. I've been to every country in the Balkans except for Romania (which barely qualifies), and in terms of bang-for-your-buck, Tirana is probably one of the more interesting cities. It has less gritty big-city feeling (if that's your thing) than Sofia or Belgrade, but still a surprisingly nice central district (for Europe's second poorest country). I have even recommended it specifically for cases like this: it's a cheap place to hang out in Europe that feels genuinely European, but where the cost of living is more on par with Latin America. Parts of Greece can also be surprisingly affordable (with much better infrastructure than Albania), particularly if you hit a place that's a summer hot-spot in the off-season.

atmosx 5y ago
Smaller towns in North Greece can be cheap nowadays. Especially the ones that don't have universities. About the infrastructure, might good or awful, depends on where you live.