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People here are indeed ill-informed. Silicon valley has a recent obsession with battery tech and seems to believe that batteries can scale like software. Spoile

People here are indeed ill-informed. Silicon valley has a recent obsession with battery tech and seems to believe that batteries can scale like software. Spoiler - this is not the case. As i said originally, the technical problem is scale. Even if cost does fall, no battery can power a gigawatt scale grid for more than a few minutes. Yes - minutes. During an extreme weather event, what will happen? There is a lot to learn but the solution - and this the part that people don't like hearing - is a mix of technologies. Batteries are a thin slice of the solution. We need more hydro generation, more nuclear, more wind and more solar PV. It is not a binary choice as many here seem to believe.

N1H1L 5y ago
Overbuilding solar and wind have been long suggested. But your insistence that batteries will only provide power for a few minutes is honestly not backed up by any data.
adventured 5y ago
> the solution ... is a mix of technologies Certainly. > Even if cost does fall, no battery can power a gigawatt scale grid for more than a few minutes. Yes - minutes. During an extreme weather event, what will happen? In an emergency the primary focus isn't, for example, on powering offices, powering every single thing you can. The focus should be on powering homes for a relatively short duration at reduced consumption. The goal is survival, not keeping everything on the grid powered up 24/7. Two Powerwalls can power a home for two to three days at reduced energy consumption (rationing). There's no reason we can't get to that type of outcome as routine in the next 10-20 years, given the cost of homes today (nearing $400,000 median sale price) and the continual decline in battery costs (and that's assuming no great battery breakthroughs). There's no reason all new homes built in the US shouldn't come with the equivalent of at least three Powerwalls of energy storage 20 years out.
Jedd 5y ago
It's possible that the phrase 'behind the meter' isn't universally understood - what I meant by that is that we can put storage systems (Lithium, Flow, etc) on the customer premises - on their side of the electricity meter. This gives the power consumer an energy cache, effectively, with 2-3 days of self-reliance. That's why I suggested that your insistence that we need one stonking large battery sitting somewhere is misguided - we can distribute, today, relatively cheaply (compared to the cost of a house build / maintenance) short-term independence from the grid supply.
- N1H1L 5y ago
  Yeah. And for big power banks, there are several options beyond Li-ion. There are sodium, iron and magnesium chemistries for one. Compressed air storage is another option, that is quite cheap and scales extremely well. The one being built by Hydrostor now in California is 4GWh, for example [0]. Refs: [0] https://newatlas.com/energy/hydrostor-compressed-air-energy-storage/ https://newatlas.com/energy/hydrostor-compressed-air-energy-...

N1H1L 5y ago

Overbuilding solar and wind have been long suggested. But your insistence that batteries will only provide power for a few minutes is honestly not backed up by any data.

adventured 5y ago

> the solution ... is a mix of technologies Certainly. > Even if cost does fall, no battery can power a gigawatt scale grid for more than a few minutes. Yes - minutes. During an extreme weather event, what will happen? In an emergency the primary focus isn't, for example, on powering offices, powering every single thing you can. The focus should be on powering homes for a relatively short duration at reduced consumption. The goal is survival, not keeping everything on the grid powered up 24/7. Two Powerwalls can power a home for two to three days at reduced energy consumption (rationing). There's no reason we can't get to that type of outcome as routine in the next 10-20 years, given the cost of homes today (nearing $400,000 median sale price) and the continual decline in battery costs (and that's assuming no great battery breakthroughs). There's no reason all new homes built in the US shouldn't come with the equivalent of at least three Powerwalls of energy storage 20 years out.

Jedd 5y ago

It's possible that the phrase 'behind the meter' isn't universally understood - what I meant by that is that we can put storage systems (Lithium, Flow, etc) on the customer premises - on their side of the electricity meter. This gives the power consumer an energy cache, effectively, with 2-3 days of self-reliance. That's why I suggested that your insistence that we need one stonking large battery sitting somewhere is misguided - we can distribute, today, relatively cheaply (compared to the cost of a house build / maintenance) short-term independence from the grid supply.

N1H1L 5y ago
Yeah. And for big power banks, there are several options beyond Li-ion. There are sodium, iron and magnesium chemistries for one. Compressed air storage is another option, that is quite cheap and scales extremely well. The one being built by Hydrostor now in California is 4GWh, for example [0]. Refs: [0] https://newatlas.com/energy/hydrostor-compressed-air-energy-storage/ https://newatlas.com/energy/hydrostor-compressed-air-energy-...