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Forcing me to take a week or two away from my family multiple times a year would be enough to get me to quit. There's a reason I choose to work remotely. I don

Forcing me to take a week or two away from my family multiple times a year would be enough to get me to quit. There's a reason I choose to work remotely. I don't mind working closely with others, but leaving the household for two weeks straight simply isn't feasible, and certainly not more than once a year.

helen___keller 5y ago
I totally understand, there's a reason I used the word "fascinating" and not "exciting" I would personally be open to trying it once, but I have no idea if it would fit in my life as a regular occurrence or if it would be miserable and make me want to quit.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  I did have a job previously that required 2-3 days of travel 4 times a year, and was able to make it work. In fact, a 2 week trip to a cabin to focus on work and team building sounds fantastic... for me. My spouse, on the other hand, would not be having a great time. It certainly has a whiff of unintentional ageism.
  - helen___keller 5y ago
    > It certainly has a whiff of unintentional ageism. A time honored silicon valley tradition!
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - mehlmao 5y ago
    What makes you think it's unintentional? The goal is absolutely to filter out people whose families are more important to them than whatever shitty webapp they're making.
    - zdragnar 5y ago
      For many people, it isn't much work at all. Maybe they dont have kids, or maybe their kids are old enough to not need as much supervision, or maybe they have other family or friends who can help chip in. That isn't my case, but I am also not going to assume the worst of someone for whom it isn't an issue and is simply not considerate. Then again, I have also avoided working for any company that failed to commit to a healthy work-life balance.
anamexis 5y ago
This is of course completely valid, but to provide a countering anecdote, looking for companies that do this kind of recurring retreat is a strong positive signal in my current search for a remote dev job.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  Understandable, 15 years ago, I would have said the same thing. Now, life is less flexible and I can't just run off for weeks at a time- some families can make it work, some cannot.
  - loceng 5y ago
    Surely there are different roles that would allow for both states to exist and thrive?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - pc86 5y ago
    Why are you acting like you're going to be told on Thursday that you have to get on a flight across the country Sunday night? I've known several people who work for companies like this. It's always been scheduled months in advance such that by the time you go on one the next one is typically already locked in. And even the long ones have been 4-5 days, not "weeks." It just seems like you're intentionally making this into a strawman when "travel for work 4-5 days at a time, 1-3 times a year" is a perfectly reasonable job requirement. And even with all that being said, there's nothing wrong with just not wanting to do that.
    - zdragnar 5y ago
      Here is the quote I replied to: > The idea of taking the team out to an airbnb (or some other communal living arrangement) in the woods or by the beach for a week or two to launch a new major initiative 1-4 times a year Note that "week or two" and "1-4 times a year". It isn't a strawman, it is literally the topic. As for > Why are you acting like you're going to be told on Thursday that you have to get on a flight across the country Sunday night? I don't believe I ever expressed that the trips are surprises. It isn't a matter of planning, it is a matter of the duration being a burden.
ceejayoz 5y ago
My work let me bring family on our retreat several years ago. It was a lot of fun.
- mountainriver 5y ago
  Yup that’s the play here, or just make it optional
  - alistairSH 5y ago
    If 90% of the team attends and significant work is done at the retreat (and that work excludes the person who couldn't come), it's "optional" not optional.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  Did they pay for that, or was that expense on you?
  - sumtechguy 5y ago
    That depends on the company. Some do, most dont. But they will not really give you much grief over it. I know several people who did it. Usually after 2nd or 3rd time they would not do it. Because the spouse usually figured out pretty quick 'oh I am sitting here by myself when I could be at home doing the same thing...'
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Work paid.
ehnto 5y ago
These conversations often boil down into dichotomies when if you've ever been part of a team you'll know there's tonnes of compromise and negotiation going on in professional settings. People make comments on either side because they feel they would enjoy X or Y, but they're not meaning to imply that we all hoover up the cool-aid and sacrifice all we have for it. Zdragnar doesn't come to the retreats because they would rather spend time with their family, most places would understand that or at least accept that it's your choice. If your boss doesn't get it, then maybe they'll do you the favour of firing you and you can find a team that does get it.
- almost_usual 5y ago
  Having a family is a lot of work. A job that takes all that time away from your other responsibilities isn’t feasible for most people with kids.
  - shepherdjerred 5y ago
    Kids were raised just fine for the thousands of years before remote work existed.
    - makapuf 5y ago
      For those thousands of years, women didnt work without their kids nearby.
    - dukeyukey 5y ago
      Work-from-home was pretty much the standard up until 1900 or so, at least for the vast majority of people. It's only since trains and motor vehicles we've been able to commute.
      - ngrilly 5y ago
        For what kind of work?
        5y ago
avoaja 5y ago
What if it’s bring your family along for a four day weekend.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  Sure, it would work with the spouse I have now, but I would have been mortified bringing my ex with me. There are good reasons I left him, and having to watch over him at inappropriate times was part of it. Not all families are wonderful.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    This. Same with my ex wife. I’m now looking after the kids and have a full time job so there’s no option to take a flight or even go into the office.
mostertoaster 5y ago
I have a large family, and while I wouldn’t spend two full consecutive weeks away ever, I could probably do 4-6 weeks a year, fly out Sunday, fly back Friday evening. Except this last year cuz my wife was homeschooling the kids and she would’ve gone insane, but they’ll be back in school this year so I could imagine it happening. Even two weeks straight is fine if I was flown back on the weekend.

helen___keller 5y ago

I totally understand, there's a reason I used the word "fascinating" and not "exciting" I would personally be open to trying it once, but I have no idea if it would fit in my life as a regular occurrence or if it would be miserable and make me want to quit.

zdragnar 5y ago
I did have a job previously that required 2-3 days of travel 4 times a year, and was able to make it work. In fact, a 2 week trip to a cabin to focus on work and team building sounds fantastic... for me. My spouse, on the other hand, would not be having a great time. It certainly has a whiff of unintentional ageism.
- helen___keller 5y ago
  > It certainly has a whiff of unintentional ageism. A time honored silicon valley tradition!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mehlmao 5y ago
  What makes you think it's unintentional? The goal is absolutely to filter out people whose families are more important to them than whatever shitty webapp they're making.
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    For many people, it isn't much work at all. Maybe they dont have kids, or maybe their kids are old enough to not need as much supervision, or maybe they have other family or friends who can help chip in. That isn't my case, but I am also not going to assume the worst of someone for whom it isn't an issue and is simply not considerate. Then again, I have also avoided working for any company that failed to commit to a healthy work-life balance.

anamexis 5y ago

This is of course completely valid, but to provide a countering anecdote, looking for companies that do this kind of recurring retreat is a strong positive signal in my current search for a remote dev job.

zdragnar 5y ago
Understandable, 15 years ago, I would have said the same thing. Now, life is less flexible and I can't just run off for weeks at a time- some families can make it work, some cannot.
- loceng 5y ago
  Surely there are different roles that would allow for both states to exist and thrive?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- pc86 5y ago
  Why are you acting like you're going to be told on Thursday that you have to get on a flight across the country Sunday night? I've known several people who work for companies like this. It's always been scheduled months in advance such that by the time you go on one the next one is typically already locked in. And even the long ones have been 4-5 days, not "weeks." It just seems like you're intentionally making this into a strawman when "travel for work 4-5 days at a time, 1-3 times a year" is a perfectly reasonable job requirement. And even with all that being said, there's nothing wrong with just not wanting to do that.
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    Here is the quote I replied to: > The idea of taking the team out to an airbnb (or some other communal living arrangement) in the woods or by the beach for a week or two to launch a new major initiative 1-4 times a year Note that "week or two" and "1-4 times a year". It isn't a strawman, it is literally the topic. As for > Why are you acting like you're going to be told on Thursday that you have to get on a flight across the country Sunday night? I don't believe I ever expressed that the trips are surprises. It isn't a matter of planning, it is a matter of the duration being a burden.

ceejayoz 5y ago

My work let me bring family on our retreat several years ago. It was a lot of fun.

mountainriver 5y ago
Yup that’s the play here, or just make it optional
- alistairSH 5y ago
  If 90% of the team attends and significant work is done at the retreat (and that work excludes the person who couldn't come), it's "optional" not optional.
alistairSH 5y ago
Did they pay for that, or was that expense on you?
- sumtechguy 5y ago
  That depends on the company. Some do, most dont. But they will not really give you much grief over it. I know several people who did it. Usually after 2nd or 3rd time they would not do it. Because the spouse usually figured out pretty quick 'oh I am sitting here by myself when I could be at home doing the same thing...'
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Work paid.

ehnto 5y ago

These conversations often boil down into dichotomies when if you've ever been part of a team you'll know there's tonnes of compromise and negotiation going on in professional settings. People make comments on either side because they feel they would enjoy X or Y, but they're not meaning to imply that we all hoover up the cool-aid and sacrifice all we have for it. Zdragnar doesn't come to the retreats because they would rather spend time with their family, most places would understand that or at least accept that it's your choice. If your boss doesn't get it, then maybe they'll do you the favour of firing you and you can find a team that does get it.

almost_usual 5y ago
Having a family is a lot of work. A job that takes all that time away from your other responsibilities isn’t feasible for most people with kids.
- shepherdjerred 5y ago
  Kids were raised just fine for the thousands of years before remote work existed.
  - makapuf 5y ago
    For those thousands of years, women didnt work without their kids nearby.
  - dukeyukey 5y ago
    Work-from-home was pretty much the standard up until 1900 or so, at least for the vast majority of people. It's only since trains and motor vehicles we've been able to commute.
    - ngrilly 5y ago
      For what kind of work?
      - 5y ago

avoaja 5y ago

What if it’s bring your family along for a four day weekend.

Broken_Hippo 5y ago
Sure, it would work with the spouse I have now, but I would have been mortified bringing my ex with me. There are good reasons I left him, and having to watch over him at inappropriate times was part of it. Not all families are wonderful.
- hughrr 5y ago
  This. Same with my ex wife. I’m now looking after the kids and have a full time job so there’s no option to take a flight or even go into the office.

mostertoaster 5y ago

I have a large family, and while I wouldn’t spend two full consecutive weeks away ever, I could probably do 4-6 weeks a year, fly out Sunday, fly back Friday evening. Except this last year cuz my wife was homeschooling the kids and she would’ve gone insane, but they’ll be back in school this year so I could imagine it happening. Even two weeks straight is fine if I was flown back on the weekend.