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To put some numbers to this. France produced 537.7 TWh of electricity in 2020. That's 537,700,000,000 kWh. Let's say you want battery capacity that can cover th

To put some numbers to this. France produced 537.7 TWh of electricity in 2020. That's 537,700,000,000 kWh. Let's say you want battery capacity that can cover this for one day - divide it by 365 - 1,473,000,000 kWh. At $100 per kWh that would cost $147 billion. That's actually not that outrageous. In reality you would probably want more battery capacity than that, but at the same time you'd probably have other forms of power generation too. Those other forms of power generation probably aren't going to be off when wind power isn't being produced, which means that they don't need to be covered by the battery capacity. France's budget in 2021 was $755 billion. Edit: I forgot about batteries wearing out. If they have to replace the batteries once a year then this would still be prohibitively expensive.

N1H1L 5y ago
Batteries easily last a decade now. LFP chemistries easily will do 1000+ cycles. Also 24 hours is a huge amount - you actually don't need more than that, especially if you have offshore wind in your mix, as they blow pretty much all the time.
- liketochill 5y ago
  1000 cycles / 365 days =~ 3 years, not 10? I heard a solar project is over-provisioning the battery and planning to replace it every 5 years as they must be able to deliver some amount of MWh 4 years down the road.
  - N1H1L 5y ago
    Yes - but you are never really cycling all the way. Draining them down completely and filling them all the way up. Rather they are often smoothing out power supply.
    - liketochill 5y ago
      So a cycle is a full discharge and if you get at least 1000 cycles but never go below 10% discharge you would get 10000 10% discharge/charge cycles from a battery?
      - N1H1L 5y ago
        Yes. As Apple puts it here[0]: > You complete one charge cycle when you’ve used (discharged) an amount that equals 100% of your battery’s capacity — but not necessarily all from one charge. For instance, you might use 75% of your battery’s capacity one day, then recharge it fully overnight. If you use 25% the next day, you will have discharged a total of 100%, and the two days will add up to one charge cycle. References: [0] https://www.apple.com/batteries/why-lithium-ion/ https://www.apple.com/batteries/why-lithium-ion/
- Aerroon 5y ago
  And when a storm hits? No electricity?
  - N1H1L 5y ago
    That happens today only, with conventional power sources. Snowstorms routinely knock out power infrastructure
guerby 5y ago
There are currently 32 millions passenger cars in France, so for 1,473,000,000 kWh by 32 millions that's ... 46 kWh per car. Most cars have more than that as battery so when all car are electrified, put together and filled up they can power France for a day without any other generation source. France peak demand is about 100 GW so that's 3.2 kW per car. It's a tiny amount relative to the power of the motor. It can flow through a nearly normal plug (16A 230V). And this is for the worst day of the year.

N1H1L 5y ago

Batteries easily last a decade now. LFP chemistries easily will do 1000+ cycles. Also 24 hours is a huge amount - you actually don't need more than that, especially if you have offshore wind in your mix, as they blow pretty much all the time.

liketochill 5y ago
1000 cycles / 365 days =~ 3 years, not 10? I heard a solar project is over-provisioning the battery and planning to replace it every 5 years as they must be able to deliver some amount of MWh 4 years down the road.
- N1H1L 5y ago
  Yes - but you are never really cycling all the way. Draining them down completely and filling them all the way up. Rather they are often smoothing out power supply.
  - liketochill 5y ago
    So a cycle is a full discharge and if you get at least 1000 cycles but never go below 10% discharge you would get 10000 10% discharge/charge cycles from a battery?
    - N1H1L 5y ago
      Yes. As Apple puts it here[0]: > You complete one charge cycle when you’ve used (discharged) an amount that equals 100% of your battery’s capacity — but not necessarily all from one charge. For instance, you might use 75% of your battery’s capacity one day, then recharge it fully overnight. If you use 25% the next day, you will have discharged a total of 100%, and the two days will add up to one charge cycle. References: [0] https://www.apple.com/batteries/why-lithium-ion/ https://www.apple.com/batteries/why-lithium-ion/
Aerroon 5y ago
And when a storm hits? No electricity?
- N1H1L 5y ago
  That happens today only, with conventional power sources. Snowstorms routinely knock out power infrastructure

guerby 5y ago

There are currently 32 millions passenger cars in France, so for 1,473,000,000 kWh by 32 millions that's ... 46 kWh per car. Most cars have more than that as battery so when all car are electrified, put together and filled up they can power France for a day without any other generation source. France peak demand is about 100 GW so that's 3.2 kW per car. It's a tiny amount relative to the power of the motor. It can flow through a nearly normal plug (16A 230V). And this is for the worst day of the year.