4 ms·

The reality is that there's a vocal minority (looks around here) and the vast majority of people couldn't give a shit less. Not once in my life has my dad, my

The reality is that there's a vocal minority (looks around here) and the vast majority of people couldn't give a shit less. Not once in my life has my dad, my grandma, or some random friend I met up with at a bar gone "jeez, Apple and Google sure do have a monopoly on pricing in their respective app stores and this harms me as a consumer". Nobody cares. In fact, most people probably think everything is amazing how it is now and don't think there's a problem. Personally, I'm knowledgable enough and I think things are way better now than they might be in a future state where this is changed. I know exactly what is going to happen. They are going to be forced to allow competing app stores (in the case of Apple) and then everybody I know is going to have like 5 stores installed, garbage apps spying and harvesting personal info, and it's going to just be a shit storm of stupid knock-offs, crappy products, and outright theft. There's no way around it and if you don't understand that you're now going to have to fix your grandma's iPhone now because Facebook wasn't on the Apple App Store but was on the whatever App Store you're living in a fantasy bubble where people are even moderately technically literate. There's just a few disgruntled developers who don't like the rules so they complain loudly, and some billion dollar corporations who can make some money if they win legal cases. Small, but vocal players. Unfortunately that's how a democracy in a country as large as the United States works. Most people don't care about something so one group can just shout loudly and eventually get their way, even if it is bad for the country as a whole. Then they get entrenched and laws are nearly impossible to repeal now. Then we overcorrect and pass new laws, but then these laws have loopholes or carve out exceptions. /rant

flavius29663 5y ago
You should read upon the woman who brought down Standard Oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_Tarbell#Standard_Oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_Tarbell#Standard_Oil It was basically a person that took on the largest monopoly in the world, and won. What we have today is a significantly larger momentum against tech monopolies. Look at some of the practices that brought the case forward: "An office boy working at the Standard Oil headquarters was given the job of destroying records which included evidence that railroads were giving the company advance information about refiner's shipments.[85] This allowed them to undercut the refiners" Does that sound familiar? Google knows everything that happens on your phone; and they can just undercut every other successful app if they wish so? Or how Amazon can simply analyze all the sales and create their own version of the successful products?
- ericmay 5y ago
  I'm not arguing that all tech companies are or are not monopolies. I think Google and Facebook are specifically candidates for anti-trust regulation. But I don't see it with Apple at all, especially around this App Store issue, and I'm not really convinced that Amazon is either.
  - echelon 5y ago
    50% of Americans use jPhone, and many as their primary computer device. You can't reach them without paying Apple tax. You can't write software and be done with it - you have to make their arbitrary reviewers happy and wait for releases. No matter what your business is. They also keep you from forming a relationship with the customer. You don't get an email or anything. You're on their payment rails most of the time, which significantly increases risk. One press of a button, and your business is obliterated. Imagine if every car was either Ford or Tesla, and Tesla charged your destinations 30% on everything you do. Every bagel you buy, or every concert you attend. Margins are tight as it is. Apple makes it substantially harder. Before Apple, people were satisfied with websites and Windows programs. Now everything has to be an App.
    - ericmay 5y ago
      > 50% of Americans use jPhone, and many as their primary computer device. Isn't this article about Korea? Anyway. > You can't reach them without paying Apple Tax And? If it's that bad just don't do business with iPhone users. Can you not make money on the other 50% of users who use Android? If so that's kind of telling on its own. Or is it that you want your own business to be more lucrative? The thing is what is happening is that Apple is passing costs on to developers instead of consumers, and as a developer you don't like that. As a consumer, I love it. If they stop passing those costs and stop collectively bargaining against developers for me then the cost of the iPhone goes up. > Margins are tight as it is. Apple makes it substantially harder. Before Apple, people were satisfied with websites and Windows programs. Now everything has to be an App. Maybe you just don't have a good enough business model? If it comes to having fewer apps on the Apple App Store or having multiple stores, as an iPhone user I prefer fewer apps for sure.
jollybean 5y ago
It's probably true that the vast majority of people don't have an awareness of the impact and/or have little care but that doesn't make the issues unsubstantial.
ksec 5y ago
>Not once in my life has my dad, my grandma, o Neither did any consumer complain to EU about credit card processing fees. Because they dont know. But EU business did. Just the same as App business in other country that are complaining now. And EU took action on Visa and MasterCard processing fees. And is the same argument, It is Apple's App Store, they can do what ever they want with it. Fine. Perfectly valid argument. But it is also EU's Market ( or in this case South Korean Market ), if Apple dont like it, do what the MacRumors comments have been telling Apple to do, Pull out of the EU and South Korean market to retaliate.
- ericmay 5y ago
  > Neither did any consumer complain to EU about credit card processing fees. Because they dont know. But EU business did. Just the same as App business in other country that are complaining now. Sure but that's not a great comparison. The experience for users is the same, you're just shuffling around who gets paid. A better comparison would be a business that only accepts cash who then has to accept credit cards so they raise prices for everyone. Either way, in the case of Apple and the iPhone it changes the user experience and the ability of Apple to collectively bargain against developers for the interest of consumers (where we are aligned). With 3rd-party App Stores you can now take a company like Facebook with abusive privacy rules, or manipulative and scammy apps and they basically get back into the ecosystem. So you're going to lose a lot of good things for not much value. I think the writing is probably on the wall for Apple, but hopefully the experience isn't destroyed too much. Sucks that we're going to a worse future. > And EU took action on Visa and MasterCard processing fees. And did those businesses lower prices or keep the prices the same but pocket the extra margin they were padding on for the fees? I'm not saying it wasn't a good move, Visa and MasterCard are useful middle people but middle all the same, but it seems to me to just be shuffling around who is getting paid. Where this affects small businesses, great! Where it affects large companies? Meh. > And is the same argument, It is Apple's App Store, they can do what ever they want with it. Fine. Perfectly valid argument. But it is also EU's Market ( or in this case South Korean Market ), if Apple dont like it, do what the MacRumors comments have been telling Apple to do, Pull out of the EU and South Korean market to retaliate. I mean yea I'm not disputing that. The EU can pass whatever laws it wants, as can Korea. I just think it's anti-consumer. I don't think Apple will leave the markets though, they'll likely implement it and it'll just be a worse experience for EU citizens and South Koreans who have iPhones. I'm against it, personally.

flavius29663 5y ago

You should read upon the woman who brought down Standard Oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_Tarbell#Standard_Oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_Tarbell#Standard_Oil It was basically a person that took on the largest monopoly in the world, and won. What we have today is a significantly larger momentum against tech monopolies. Look at some of the practices that brought the case forward: "An office boy working at the Standard Oil headquarters was given the job of destroying records which included evidence that railroads were giving the company advance information about refiner's shipments.[85] This allowed them to undercut the refiners" Does that sound familiar? Google knows everything that happens on your phone; and they can just undercut every other successful app if they wish so? Or how Amazon can simply analyze all the sales and create their own version of the successful products?

ericmay 5y ago
I'm not arguing that all tech companies are or are not monopolies. I think Google and Facebook are specifically candidates for anti-trust regulation. But I don't see it with Apple at all, especially around this App Store issue, and I'm not really convinced that Amazon is either.
- echelon 5y ago
  50% of Americans use jPhone, and many as their primary computer device. You can't reach them without paying Apple tax. You can't write software and be done with it - you have to make their arbitrary reviewers happy and wait for releases. No matter what your business is. They also keep you from forming a relationship with the customer. You don't get an email or anything. You're on their payment rails most of the time, which significantly increases risk. One press of a button, and your business is obliterated. Imagine if every car was either Ford or Tesla, and Tesla charged your destinations 30% on everything you do. Every bagel you buy, or every concert you attend. Margins are tight as it is. Apple makes it substantially harder. Before Apple, people were satisfied with websites and Windows programs. Now everything has to be an App.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    > 50% of Americans use jPhone, and many as their primary computer device. Isn't this article about Korea? Anyway. > You can't reach them without paying Apple Tax And? If it's that bad just don't do business with iPhone users. Can you not make money on the other 50% of users who use Android? If so that's kind of telling on its own. Or is it that you want your own business to be more lucrative? The thing is what is happening is that Apple is passing costs on to developers instead of consumers, and as a developer you don't like that. As a consumer, I love it. If they stop passing those costs and stop collectively bargaining against developers for me then the cost of the iPhone goes up. > Margins are tight as it is. Apple makes it substantially harder. Before Apple, people were satisfied with websites and Windows programs. Now everything has to be an App. Maybe you just don't have a good enough business model? If it comes to having fewer apps on the Apple App Store or having multiple stores, as an iPhone user I prefer fewer apps for sure.

jollybean 5y ago

It's probably true that the vast majority of people don't have an awareness of the impact and/or have little care but that doesn't make the issues unsubstantial.

ksec 5y ago

>Not once in my life has my dad, my grandma, o Neither did any consumer complain to EU about credit card processing fees. Because they dont know. But EU business did. Just the same as App business in other country that are complaining now. And EU took action on Visa and MasterCard processing fees. And is the same argument, It is Apple's App Store, they can do what ever they want with it. Fine. Perfectly valid argument. But it is also EU's Market ( or in this case South Korean Market ), if Apple dont like it, do what the MacRumors comments have been telling Apple to do, Pull out of the EU and South Korean market to retaliate.

ericmay 5y ago
> Neither did any consumer complain to EU about credit card processing fees. Because they dont know. But EU business did. Just the same as App business in other country that are complaining now. Sure but that's not a great comparison. The experience for users is the same, you're just shuffling around who gets paid. A better comparison would be a business that only accepts cash who then has to accept credit cards so they raise prices for everyone. Either way, in the case of Apple and the iPhone it changes the user experience and the ability of Apple to collectively bargain against developers for the interest of consumers (where we are aligned). With 3rd-party App Stores you can now take a company like Facebook with abusive privacy rules, or manipulative and scammy apps and they basically get back into the ecosystem. So you're going to lose a lot of good things for not much value. I think the writing is probably on the wall for Apple, but hopefully the experience isn't destroyed too much. Sucks that we're going to a worse future. > And EU took action on Visa and MasterCard processing fees. And did those businesses lower prices or keep the prices the same but pocket the extra margin they were padding on for the fees? I'm not saying it wasn't a good move, Visa and MasterCard are useful middle people but middle all the same, but it seems to me to just be shuffling around who is getting paid. Where this affects small businesses, great! Where it affects large companies? Meh. > And is the same argument, It is Apple's App Store, they can do what ever they want with it. Fine. Perfectly valid argument. But it is also EU's Market ( or in this case South Korean Market ), if Apple dont like it, do what the MacRumors comments have been telling Apple to do, Pull out of the EU and South Korean market to retaliate. I mean yea I'm not disputing that. The EU can pass whatever laws it wants, as can Korea. I just think it's anti-consumer. I don't think Apple will leave the markets though, they'll likely implement it and it'll just be a worse experience for EU citizens and South Koreans who have iPhones. I'm against it, personally.