4 ms·

I would go further: software should always be optional in any hardware purchase and the price of hardware with software should be higher than the price of the h

by oever 5y ago

I would go further: software should always be optional in any hardware purchase and the price of hardware with software should be higher than the price of the hardware alone. Discount bundles with software + hardware should not be allowed. So no iPhone + iOS or laptop + Windows as one item. Selling hardware and software separately ensures that the hardware can be repurposed with independently sourced software. That gives control to the user and reduces e-waste. This should include 'firmware'. The benefit for the manufacturer is that they can charge for software updates. But the consumer can choose to get the update from elsewhere.

fsflover 5y ago
So basically what Pine64 is doing.
- Avamander 5y ago
  One vendor who can ship a product that is very old and still not truly-fully supported. It's a tremendous task that takes more than enthusiasts for great results.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  Basically what a large chunk of the PC world was for a few decades.
oshiar53-0 5y ago
The real issue here is DRM and nonstandard/undocumented* platform interface (e.g. fixed attestation keys and tamper-protected chips preventing efficient RE work). Even if they manage to comply, competitors (even free software options) would still be locked out of market and the no-OS option would be next to useless to average users. *edit
- Avamander 5y ago
  > The real issue here is DRM and nonstandard platform interface Undocumented hardware, really. It's very hard to run anything if you can't even init the chipset.
throwaway59553 5y ago
This is such an awful take. First of all 95% of consumers have no idea about how software and hardware works, they'd have to install the OS, drivers and basic programs. Most consumers value commodity above all, and they are more than willing to pay for it.
- TotempaaltJ 5y ago
  It seems reasonable to me that a small but not insignificant market could emerge around providing convenience for this.
- detaro 5y ago
  So they can choose the option to have the hardware with software and pay for it? Consistent with parent's proposal.

by oever 5y ago

fsflover 5y ago

So basically what Pine64 is doing.

Avamander 5y ago
One vendor who can ship a product that is very old and still not truly-fully supported. It's a tremendous task that takes more than enthusiasts for great results.
rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
Basically what a large chunk of the PC world was for a few decades.

oshiar53-0 5y ago

The real issue here is DRM and nonstandard/undocumented* platform interface (e.g. fixed attestation keys and tamper-protected chips preventing efficient RE work). Even if they manage to comply, competitors (even free software options) would still be locked out of market and the no-OS option would be next to useless to average users. *edit

Avamander 5y ago
> The real issue here is DRM and nonstandard platform interface Undocumented hardware, really. It's very hard to run anything if you can't even init the chipset.

throwaway59553 5y ago

This is such an awful take. First of all 95% of consumers have no idea about how software and hardware works, they'd have to install the OS, drivers and basic programs. Most consumers value commodity above all, and they are more than willing to pay for it.

TotempaaltJ 5y ago
It seems reasonable to me that a small but not insignificant market could emerge around providing convenience for this.
detaro 5y ago
So they can choose the option to have the hardware with software and pay for it? Consistent with parent's proposal.