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The governement should know who you are and the bank you are associated too, if that's required to do business with them. Eg. VISA should be able to return my m

The governement should know who you are and the bank you are associated too, if that's required to do business with them. Eg. VISA should be able to return my money to my bank account if someone has a chance to abuse the system and target me. I don't want companies to share my information to third parties, this includes the banks about my purchases. And eg. Facebook shouldn't be able to target me because a site added their 'like button'. Privacy doesn't mean lawless land of crypto companies hiding in unknown countries. I actually expect governement regulation to protect it's tax-paying citizens. That's why we vote for them. Edit: As a counter argument, there are also a lot of downvotes without reasonable arguments when you argument against crypto ;) Edit 2: the informed article you shared is actually pretty biased from my POV, definitely not neutral + The additional sanity check when checking the author didn't check out either.

ilaksh 5y ago
Visa is obsolete. That's the first point most people miss in these cryptocurrency discussions. Credit cards require you to disclose your secret credentials that allow withdrawals from your account. Cryptocurrency payments do not because they apply math and computer science to the problem. The banking systems are also mostly obsolete because they are usually on an outdated paradigm without a blockchain. Blockchains are the starting point for cheat-proof ledgers. Most existing financial ledgers are susceptible to manipulation. Some by design.
- kimixa 5y ago
  They don't have to though - asymmetric authentication has been a thing for decades. The issue with current card transactions is the size of the identifier string - 16 digits isn't enough to do anything particularly useful with that can't be near-instantly brute forced. Chip and pin somewhat improves that, all we need is to completely deprecate the idea of a "16 digit card number" and it opens up a world of possibilities. No "cryptocurrency" or "blockchain" needed. And for many a "reverse-able" ledger is a bonus not a disadvantage - the "Average Guy On The Street" falls for personal scams or need to do chargebacks waaayyyyy more than fall foul of bank-level fraud.
  - ilaksh 5y ago
    The reason chargebacks exist is because of the poor technology.
    - kimixa 5y ago
      You do realise that to be useful currency has to interact with the real world at some point? No amount of cryptocurrency-bro tech is going to help with a DOA washing machine...
    - acdha 5y ago
      Chargebacks exist because human error and fraud exist. Irrevocable transactions make it easy for people to be left with the choice between taking a loss or having to sue, and a LOT of people prefer to pay slightly more not to have to worry about that.
- nly 5y ago
  You can use a credit card anywhere even when your phone is in your car/at home or has a dead battery.
djbebs 5y ago
The government shouldn't know about any of that. Not their business.
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  That's exactly their business. What about a simple letter as invitation on how to register for a COVID vaccination center. Or a sms-alert for a incoming storm. Or if someone hits you with their car and runs away. Based on the license plate that they can track them down. Or if you call 911 for an emergency and you can't finish your sentence with the address. Or if you die, that you children are taken care of and can receive your inheritance. They need to be a neutral party. Even a simple birth certificate is done by the government.
- RileyJames 5y ago
  And that’s the two sides of the coin. Where does this ‘government doesn’t know any of that’ actually work in practice? America has become a joke, the rich do not pay their share of taxes and face no punishment. They do not declare what they should be paying taxes on (spirit of the law, not what they can get away with, remember you wanted that honesty policy). It’s unfortunate that crypto has become a worse state of affairs in terms of greed and inequality, but I think long term it offers the capacity for transparent finance. I’m pro privacy on a individual basis, but I don’t think financial or corporate privacy has served the world well.
  - StanislavPetrov 5y ago
    > the rich do not pay their share of taxes and face no punishment. The government tracks everything we do right now, and the rich still don't pay their share of the taxes or face punishment for it. So why don't we stop the tracking, since the rich aren't paying anyway, and stop pretending that blanket surveillance is somehow beneficial and desirable for the rest of us?

ilaksh 5y ago

Visa is obsolete. That's the first point most people miss in these cryptocurrency discussions. Credit cards require you to disclose your secret credentials that allow withdrawals from your account. Cryptocurrency payments do not because they apply math and computer science to the problem. The banking systems are also mostly obsolete because they are usually on an outdated paradigm without a blockchain. Blockchains are the starting point for cheat-proof ledgers. Most existing financial ledgers are susceptible to manipulation. Some by design.

kimixa 5y ago
They don't have to though - asymmetric authentication has been a thing for decades. The issue with current card transactions is the size of the identifier string - 16 digits isn't enough to do anything particularly useful with that can't be near-instantly brute forced. Chip and pin somewhat improves that, all we need is to completely deprecate the idea of a "16 digit card number" and it opens up a world of possibilities. No "cryptocurrency" or "blockchain" needed. And for many a "reverse-able" ledger is a bonus not a disadvantage - the "Average Guy On The Street" falls for personal scams or need to do chargebacks waaayyyyy more than fall foul of bank-level fraud.
- ilaksh 5y ago
  The reason chargebacks exist is because of the poor technology.
  - kimixa 5y ago
    You do realise that to be useful currency has to interact with the real world at some point? No amount of cryptocurrency-bro tech is going to help with a DOA washing machine...
  - acdha 5y ago
    Chargebacks exist because human error and fraud exist. Irrevocable transactions make it easy for people to be left with the choice between taking a loss or having to sue, and a LOT of people prefer to pay slightly more not to have to worry about that.
nly 5y ago
You can use a credit card anywhere even when your phone is in your car/at home or has a dead battery.

djbebs 5y ago

The government shouldn't know about any of that. Not their business.

NicoJuicy 5y ago
That's exactly their business. What about a simple letter as invitation on how to register for a COVID vaccination center. Or a sms-alert for a incoming storm. Or if someone hits you with their car and runs away. Based on the license plate that they can track them down. Or if you call 911 for an emergency and you can't finish your sentence with the address. Or if you die, that you children are taken care of and can receive your inheritance. They need to be a neutral party. Even a simple birth certificate is done by the government.
RileyJames 5y ago
And that’s the two sides of the coin. Where does this ‘government doesn’t know any of that’ actually work in practice? America has become a joke, the rich do not pay their share of taxes and face no punishment. They do not declare what they should be paying taxes on (spirit of the law, not what they can get away with, remember you wanted that honesty policy). It’s unfortunate that crypto has become a worse state of affairs in terms of greed and inequality, but I think long term it offers the capacity for transparent finance. I’m pro privacy on a individual basis, but I don’t think financial or corporate privacy has served the world well.
- StanislavPetrov 5y ago
  > the rich do not pay their share of taxes and face no punishment. The government tracks everything we do right now, and the rich still don't pay their share of the taxes or face punishment for it. So why don't we stop the tracking, since the rich aren't paying anyway, and stop pretending that blanket surveillance is somehow beneficial and desirable for the rest of us?