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Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader
- igetspam 5y agoWhile I know I'm an outlier, this has made me more interested in these devices. It's become almost impossible to find "smart" phones without cameras. I need to read my email, get directions and (unfortunately) us slack but that's about where my needs end. I don't like cameras. I don't want to be in front of them or be responsible for taking photos of things. (I find that my disinterest and my lack of skill makes them all pretty bad anyway, which is fine by me.) I've been known to physically remove them, if I have to replace batteries (I generally opt to fix them over buying new, until the software experience degrades due to becoming under powered for the updated experiences). I'd buy the smaller one (fold? flip?) if I could be promised that the camera would never work.
- dcdc123 5y agoWhat is up with that site repeatedly expanding the border to cover the edges of text on mobile? Such a toxic design.
- mithusingh32 5y agoXDA has gonna from the go to site for Android related everything. To an ad website. If you don't have a blocker like pihole or something similar, it is unusable on mobile.
- drcursor 5y agoThis is probably due to some copyrighted binary blob used on the camera driver of the front facing camera, given how much magic it needs to do to compensate for the opaque pixels.
- xiaq 5y agoIt could be for compliance with Japanese law which forbids taking photos without a shutter sound? This in principle doesn't apply when you're not in Japan, but after unlocking Samsung has no way to tell. Edit: reading the article about SONY (https://www.xda-developers.com/sony-xperia-android-pie-unlock-bootloader-drm-fix-camera/ https://www.xda-developers.com/sony-xperia-android-pie-unloc...), DRM keys seems to be a more likely cause, which drcursor's comment also mentions.
- fomine3 5y agoSome devices sold in Japan is unlockable. It's unlikely to start such regulation in 2021.
- josephcsible 5y agoIf this were the case, then why doesn't every phone have the same restriction? And why would it make its first appearance from a Korean company on a phone for the American market?
- xiaq 5y agoDifferent legal opinions and Samsung being more risk-averse I guess? However reading the article about SONY (https://www.xda-developers.com/sony-xperia-android-pie-unlock-bootloader-drm-fix-camera/ https://www.xda-developers.com/sony-xperia-android-pie-unloc...), DRM keys seems to be a more likely cause...
- gsich 5y agoVideos: exist
- mschuster91 5y agoJapan's cybersecurity minister was proud of never having used a computer (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/15/japan-cyber-security-ministernever-used-computer-yoshitaka-sakurada https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/15/japan-cyber-se...). What do you expect from such ignorance? Laws that make sense (like holding creeps accountable)?
- alibert 5y agoCould it be that the camera is directly connected to the security chip responsible for things like biometrics, payment, etc. and that unlocking disable it?
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y agoSomehow it does not make me feel better. I have hardware that becomes more restricted the moment I want to actually use it as I see fit.
- JCWasmx86 5y agoSadly this seems to be the trend of the last few years, that hardware is locked down and you sometimes have to use exploits to have full control over your device
- rex_lupi 5y agoquite unlikely
- senectus1 5y agoI have one of these on the way and never intended to root it, but this outrages me. I get that Samsung reserves the right to say "its been rooted and is now longer certified "safe" by us, but BREAKING the functionality of the device that I paid for and own is vandalism.
- somebody_amzn 5y ago> Re-locking the bootloader does make the camera work again, which indicates that it’s more of a software-level obstacle My guess is that their camera supplier has a secret blob that they want to retain encrypted...
- danuker 5y agoYou can cancel or return it. Money is a signal every company has to pay attention to.
- AshamedCaptain 5y agoI have been hearing "vote with your wallet" for more than 30 years. It has never, ever, made a difference in the direction of hardware.
- jrockway 5y agoIt depends on the circumstances. If everyone on HN orders a phone from some new phone startup, and then everyone returns it a few weeks later, that could spell the end of the company. But for companies like Apple and Samsung, making products is just kind of a hobby side business -- they could collect interest on the balance of their corporate treasury indefinitely and make more money than you could ever imagine.
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoI can almost guarantee this is due to licensing issues with the camera firmware. Modern cameras aren't just hardware any more. They're a mix of hardware and advanced processing algorithms that really do make a huge difference in the final output. Those algorithms are often licensed from 3rd parties with specific licensing requirements. Sony has been reasonably good about enabling open-source and fixing these things in the past, so I'd give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll try to find a way to enable the cameras on unlocked phones in the future.
- danuker 5y ago> they'll try to find a way to enable the cameras on unlocked phones in the future. In the meantime, I will only buy what ACTUALLY gives me control RIGHT NOW, namely, what is supported by LineageOS: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
- ddtaylor 5y agoThe average consumer only wants to purchase the cross-section between what is the cheapest and works the best. For most consumers Open Source is not a feature.
- danuker 5y agoWith various right-to-repair legislation popping up everywhere, I am not so sure. Software restrictions are one way to ensure planned obsolescence.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y agoActually, there is a specific set of features that guarantees planned obsolescence: * Irreplaceable battery (or one that is difficult to remove by the user). * on the iPhone, the Lightning socket and the Home button. The former starts to wear out after ca. 5 years; the Home button lasts a bit longer. Apple will repair both these for you but at this point you will be tempted to buy a new device instead because of the costs involved. * the support for older devices is being dropped from SDKs. With time, it becomes more and more difficult to develop apps for your device. For many developers this is something completely natural and reasonable. For me it's not. I'm not asking Apple to support iPhone 4s (would be nice, but it's unrealistic), but just to let me still run and provision apps on my old MacBook with a previous version of Xcode. It used to work well in 2012, why can't I do it now? Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade, produce tons of electric waste, buy more, buy more. OK, I am buying new devices, but I care about the old ones. I won't throw away a perfectly working phone that will serve me another 10 years just because it is not considered modern enough. EOL-ed smartphones are powerful computers, they have tons of different uses, I wish manufacturers recognized it and collaborate with their customers to reduce the amount of electrowaste.
- DudeInBasement 5y agoSamsung kills credit score when phone unlocked... Our future today
- anonymousiam 5y agoThe new Samsung phones are less attractive for many reasons. A few months ago I upgraded my S8+ to a S20+. I considered the S21+ or Note, but none of those have a microSD slot. I suspect that my next phone will be one of these: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
- zionic 5y agoAfter Apple's incredible reversal on privacy/spyware inclusion in iOS 15 I've chosen to cancel all future purchases with them and buy this. Hoping my american-made one comes soon. I will likely continue to carry my 12 pro max 512GB for a while as my primary camera/use old school apps, but my linux phone will be how people reach me/where I store my media and files. I purchase ~5 iPhones/year for my family (soon to be 6) and upgrade them every year (selling the old hardware). I refuse to participate in their closed ecosystem if they insist on shipping malware.
- tomcooks 5y agoNo idea why you're getting downvoted, unless the corporate drones from the company that abandoned you (a loyal customer, as far as I can tell) are trying to do damage control
- 29083011397778 5y agoIf you plan to use the Librem 5 (or Pinephone like me), I would highly recommend setting up a Matrix server. They're very easy to administer, hardware requirements have been dropping for months, and it means you don't have to switch chat apps. Would it be nice to switch to whatever your preferred messenger is? Absolutely. But some people won't make the jump, and this allows you to switch more completely to the Linux phone.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y agoI understand the appeal, but that's paying flagship prices for a phone with 7 year old hardware specs. You're paying for freedom, but trapped in 3 GB of RAM and 32 GB of internal storage (expandable, but you still need to store core software on that internal space).
- rex_lupi 5y ago"Re-locking the bootloader does make the camera work again, which indicates that it’s more of a software-level obstacle. With root access, it could be possible to detect and modify the responsible parameters sent by the bootloader to the OS to bypass this restriction."
- devney 5y agoOn the surface this seems blatantly illegal: after the sale is made the no-longer-owner removes functionality. Can someone please explain how this is legally not some sort of theft, or bait-and-switch, or ... something? I read comments about firmware licensing, or Japan's camera noise thing. Those sound like Samsung problems, while disabling a camera sounds like an actionable user problem.
- fomine3 5y agoIt seems that bootloader unlocking isn't listed as a feature and this restriction is implemented from day 1. So it shouldn't be illegal, I think. It's still better than phones that don't support unlocking.
- JCWasmx86 5y agoIt's probably somewhere deep in the EULA/ToS and furthermore it is shown, while unlocking the bootloader. Whether this is legal or not, is surely an open question.
- devney 5y agoThat raises whole other legal questions.... One basic pillar of contract law basically everywhere is that one can not be bound by a contract that they didn't read, even if they signed it. Usually these cases involve coercion or not knowing the language. If nobody can read the EULA because it's 10 pages of densely written legalese, can they even be bound by it? Since BigCo deliberately made their EULA harder to read than necessary, that probably counts as "acting in bad faith" which is an entirely different legal avenue for the EULA to be void.
- InitialLastName 5y ago> One basic pillar of contract law basically everywhere is that one can not be bound by a contract that they didn't read, even if they signed it. Wait, there has to be more nuance to this, right? Like, I can't just sign a contract and say "I didn't read it" when a term I don't like comes into force. Is there a precedent for where that line is?
- wlesieutre 5y agoI had an Xperia Z3 Compact from Sony and it had this same restriction. Much of its camera functionality (including de-noising) was DRMed and if you unlocked the bootlader it would delete the keys. No way to restore them.
- dbeley 5y agoUnlike the Z Fold 3 it doesn't kill the camera completely, you end up with a lower quality camera without its post-processing features but it's still usable.
- wlesieutre 5y agoOk yes, it would technically only turn your camera into a potato instead of disabling it completely
- mark_l_watson 5y agoWhile that is a bummer for advanced and/or privacy seeking users, it is understandable. I have considered membership in the CalyxOS Institute where you get a Google Pixel 4a phone all set up with CalyxOS. Something similar with the most modern hardware would be better, but the situation with Samsung, is what it is.
- summm 5y agoIt is not understandable, and we shouldn't accept asshole behavior like this. If we do, other manufacturers will follow one by one, and in 2 years you won't have any options left. Like it was with removable batteries. SD cards. Headphones jack.
- vbezhenar 5y agoAFAIK similar thing happens with Sony smartphones. They claim to officially support AOSP. But: "If you unlock the bootloader, you may void the warranty of your device and/or any warranty from your operator. See your device’s warranty statement for details. Additionally, due to the modified device software, Sony’s repair network will likely have to replace key components before it can properly test, repair and verify your device using our repair tools and software. Consequently, if Sony performs a warranty repair, Sony will likely charge you a significant service fee for the additional costs caused by your modification of the software." And regarding camera: "Certain pre-loaded content on your device may also be inaccessible due to the removal of DRM security keys. For devices running recent software versions, for instance Xperia Z3, the removal of DRM security keys may affect advanced camera functionality. For example, noise reduction algorithms might be removed, and performance when taking photos in low-light conditions might be affected. The secure user data partition may also become inaccessible, and you will not be able to get any more official software upgrades if you unlock the bootloader." I was very enthusiastic about Sony smartphones when I first read about them officially supporting AOSP, but after reading those terms I just bought cheap Android One Xiaomi instead, who supports unlocking bootloader with a single click, does not void your warranty or break your camera and you can easily re-flash original firmware.
- cupcake-unicorn 5y agoA lot of phones have issues with the built in cameras when flashing third party firmware. The roms that seem to work better with these phones integrate the original binary blobs from the manufacturer. I guess the question is can you do that in this case?
- fucksamsung 5y agocan somebody please get a fucking class action lawsuit going against these cunts (someone please for free money fuck them up their stupid asses)