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> "We go hard and we go early" works. "We go hard and we go early" works *in a small, remote island nation that is willing to hermetically seal itself off from

by tdfx 5y ago

> "We go hard and we go early" works. "We go hard and we go early" works *in a small, remote island nation that is willing to hermetically seal itself off from the rest of the world.

wozniacki 5y ago
Also, a country with a GDP the size of the U.S. state of Oklahoma mind you (New Zealand's G.D.P 204,671, Oklahoma's G.D.P. 206,058 (in USD million, 2019, according to the IMF) [1] [1] Comparison between U.S. states and sovereign states by GDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_sovereign_states_by_GDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states...
- talaketu 5y ago
  What does GDP measured in Oklahomas have to do with anything?
  - wozniacki 5y ago
    It gives you a general idea, how significant or insignificant an economy is and also roughly how many other moving parts of the global economy it has complex gears in. And thereby how many more fold damages can result from a catastrophic shutdown of the country, something a small geographically-on-the-periphery-of-the-world nation need not worry about, to the same degree.
    - socialdemocrat 5y ago
      You got it all in reverse. Large countries are much less affected by this as they are more self sufficient. Small countries have far more open economies and depend far more on import and export to work. They are too small to make everything themselves.
    - LAC-Tech 5y ago
      NZ isn't North Korea. It's not a hermit jurisdiction relying on its own internal economy. It relies a lot on trade with the rest of the world - it gets a lot of money from exports and relies a lot on imports (everything here is depressingly expensive for that reason). Hell I'm even able to connect to communicate you using internet (the exact same kind you get in Oklahoma).
    - actually_a_dog 5y ago
      Except that's completely wrong. All the costs are borne by the citizens of NZ. Someone who can't go to work in NZ is just as affected as someone who can't go to work in the US. The difference is, and was, in the government's response in assisting those bearing those costs.
wwweston 5y ago
"small", "remote", and "island" aren't significant direct contributions here. "seal" does -- whether any group is collectively capable of taking chain-of-exposure and its management seriously. Make your island arbitrarily small and remote but have even a single person who's boating/flying or any kind of unmanaged travel outside the bubble regularly and you'll see infection overrun the island. Pick an arbitrarily large city within miles of another on a shared continent with an unmanaged pandemic. Have it populated with people who are unified in careful contact management and they'll keep outbreaks scarce and small.
- BeFlatXIII 5y ago
  It's far easier to have a successful seal on a remote island than the Czech Republic or Alabama. Land borders are both more secure and more porous than you'd think.
  - LAC-Tech 5y ago
    What's Britains excuse? People swimming over from Calais to cough?
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      we never shut the airports (or the channel tunnel). If you arrived in the UK you were told to quarantine, but not made to. Also our politicians are deeply incompetent and were the only ones in Europe (AFAIK) aiming for herd immunity right off the bat, until they eventually ran the numbers on death rates if the ICUs ran out of capacity and realised it was a terrible idea.
      - LAC-Tech 5y ago
        Right, so it's far more to do with institutions and policy than it is to do with how big an ocean you're in. NZ could have done the exact same thing - kept flights going, asked people politely to quarantine, etc.
nojs 5y ago
It’s also worked pretty well in China.
- dharma1 5y ago
  Incredibly well. But wonder how long they can keep doing it https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-23/china-crushed-covid-again-with-containment-on-steroids https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-23/china-cru...
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
  ...according to China, masters of disinformation
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- aantix 5y ago
  Where they forceably took citizens for quarantine? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/video-appears-show-people-china-forcibly-taken-quarantine-over-coronavirus-n1133096 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/video-appears-show-people... Yeah, that's not happening in the U.S. Not without starting a civil war. "Later the policy became even more aggressive, with officials going door to door for health checks, and forcing anyone ill into isolation. A disabled boy reportedly died after he was left without food, water or help when his his father and brother were quarantined." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/chinas-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-brutal-but-effective https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/chinas-coronav...
  - pasabagi 5y ago
    That's just the chinese administrative culture. It's obviously totally possible to do a strict lockdown without doing anything draconian.
    - actually_a_dog 5y ago
      Oh really? Is it possible to shut down the birthday parties and holiday gatherings my neighbors were having during the height of the winter peak without being draconian?
LAC-Tech 5y ago
Being a remote island nation really doesn't make much difference in the era of Air travel. It has (had) very high immigration rates and a lot of tourists.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- odessacubbage 5y ago
  every single person traveling through an international airport is concentrated and processed in a way that people driving from alabama to florida are not. that makes an extraordinary difference.
  - LAC-Tech 5y ago
    Let's take an island nation with an island nation - the Isle of Mann. 58x less people than New Zealand. Only accessible by plane and boat. 37 deaths to NZs 26.
kls 5y ago
Right, I will second this, our law enforcement shut down the Florida Keys at what we call he 18 mile stretch. No one that is not a resident was allowed in. for a good deal of time it worked and to be honest, I am thankful that they did, as at that moment in time, we did not know what we where looking at.
anonymouswacker 5y ago
Wait until they actually open up. They are just delaying the inevitable. Then again there’s no reason to go indoors in crowds in NZ—not like they have an arts scene, or anything, really, besides the outdoors.

by tdfx 5y ago

> "We go hard and we go early" works. "We go hard and we go early" works *in a small, remote island nation that is willing to hermetically seal itself off from the rest of the world.

wozniacki 5y ago

Also, a country with a GDP the size of the U.S. state of Oklahoma mind you (New Zealand's G.D.P 204,671, Oklahoma's G.D.P. 206,058 (in USD million, 2019, according to the IMF) [1] [1] Comparison between U.S. states and sovereign states by GDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_sovereign_states_by_GDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states...

talaketu 5y ago
What does GDP measured in Oklahomas have to do with anything?
- wozniacki 5y ago
  It gives you a general idea, how significant or insignificant an economy is and also roughly how many other moving parts of the global economy it has complex gears in. And thereby how many more fold damages can result from a catastrophic shutdown of the country, something a small geographically-on-the-periphery-of-the-world nation need not worry about, to the same degree.
  - socialdemocrat 5y ago
    You got it all in reverse. Large countries are much less affected by this as they are more self sufficient. Small countries have far more open economies and depend far more on import and export to work. They are too small to make everything themselves.
  - LAC-Tech 5y ago
    NZ isn't North Korea. It's not a hermit jurisdiction relying on its own internal economy. It relies a lot on trade with the rest of the world - it gets a lot of money from exports and relies a lot on imports (everything here is depressingly expensive for that reason). Hell I'm even able to connect to communicate you using internet (the exact same kind you get in Oklahoma).
  - actually_a_dog 5y ago
    Except that's completely wrong. All the costs are borne by the citizens of NZ. Someone who can't go to work in NZ is just as affected as someone who can't go to work in the US. The difference is, and was, in the government's response in assisting those bearing those costs.

wwweston 5y ago

"small", "remote", and "island" aren't significant direct contributions here. "seal" does -- whether any group is collectively capable of taking chain-of-exposure and its management seriously. Make your island arbitrarily small and remote but have even a single person who's boating/flying or any kind of unmanaged travel outside the bubble regularly and you'll see infection overrun the island. Pick an arbitrarily large city within miles of another on a shared continent with an unmanaged pandemic. Have it populated with people who are unified in careful contact management and they'll keep outbreaks scarce and small.

BeFlatXIII 5y ago
It's far easier to have a successful seal on a remote island than the Czech Republic or Alabama. Land borders are both more secure and more porous than you'd think.
- LAC-Tech 5y ago
  What's Britains excuse? People swimming over from Calais to cough?
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    we never shut the airports (or the channel tunnel). If you arrived in the UK you were told to quarantine, but not made to. Also our politicians are deeply incompetent and were the only ones in Europe (AFAIK) aiming for herd immunity right off the bat, until they eventually ran the numbers on death rates if the ICUs ran out of capacity and realised it was a terrible idea.
    - LAC-Tech 5y ago
      Right, so it's far more to do with institutions and policy than it is to do with how big an ocean you're in. NZ could have done the exact same thing - kept flights going, asked people politely to quarantine, etc.

nojs 5y ago

It’s also worked pretty well in China.

dharma1 5y ago
Incredibly well. But wonder how long they can keep doing it https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-23/china-crushed-covid-again-with-containment-on-steroids https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-23/china-cru...
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
...according to China, masters of disinformation
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
aantix 5y ago
Where they forceably took citizens for quarantine? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/video-appears-show-people-china-forcibly-taken-quarantine-over-coronavirus-n1133096 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/video-appears-show-people... Yeah, that's not happening in the U.S. Not without starting a civil war. "Later the policy became even more aggressive, with officials going door to door for health checks, and forcing anyone ill into isolation. A disabled boy reportedly died after he was left without food, water or help when his his father and brother were quarantined." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/chinas-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-brutal-but-effective https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/chinas-coronav...
- pasabagi 5y ago
  That's just the chinese administrative culture. It's obviously totally possible to do a strict lockdown without doing anything draconian.
  - actually_a_dog 5y ago
    Oh really? Is it possible to shut down the birthday parties and holiday gatherings my neighbors were having during the height of the winter peak without being draconian?

LAC-Tech 5y ago

Being a remote island nation really doesn't make much difference in the era of Air travel. It has (had) very high immigration rates and a lot of tourists.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
odessacubbage 5y ago
every single person traveling through an international airport is concentrated and processed in a way that people driving from alabama to florida are not. that makes an extraordinary difference.
- LAC-Tech 5y ago
  Let's take an island nation with an island nation - the Isle of Mann. 58x less people than New Zealand. Only accessible by plane and boat. 37 deaths to NZs 26.

kls 5y ago

Right, I will second this, our law enforcement shut down the Florida Keys at what we call he 18 mile stretch. No one that is not a resident was allowed in. for a good deal of time it worked and to be honest, I am thankful that they did, as at that moment in time, we did not know what we where looking at.

anonymouswacker 5y ago

Wait until they actually open up. They are just delaying the inevitable. Then again there’s no reason to go indoors in crowds in NZ—not like they have an arts scene, or anything, really, besides the outdoors.