5 ms·

Only time CDC and WHO were anti-mask were when there were shortages. Save the masks for the healthcare workers, essentially.

nerdponx 5y ago
But they burned huge amounts of their social trust capital in doing so, because they didn't just say "there are shortages, please stop hoarding masks", they outright lied about the efficacy of masks and perpetuated the lie for months. If people have no idea what to believe, it's because the government led a catastrophically inept response.
- mike00632 5y ago
  No. The CDC said AT THE TIME that they didn't recommend everyone wearing masks because hospitals were facing shortages. They have always been open about their reasoning and data. Quit repeating this terrible lie.
  - malkuth23 5y ago
    That is not quite true. The CDC listed several reasons not to wear masks. They definitely mention a shortage of masks and retaining supply for medical personnel, but at the same time they also said they were unnecessary and unhelpful for anyone not working directly around symptomatic sick people. Also, most people do not differentiate the CDC from the Surgeon General. This is a quote from the LA Times quoting Jerome Adams: “Seriously people — STOP BUYING MASKS!” he wrote in a tweet that was later deleted. “They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!” This is a good article about the changing position on masks: https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-07-27/timeline-cdc-mask-guidance-during-covid-19-pandemic https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-07-27/timeline-cd... Here are a few other sources I found with a quick google search: https://www.aaha.org/publications/newstat/articles/2020-03/cdc-an-about-face-on-face-masks/ https://www.aaha.org/publications/newstat/articles/2020-03/c... https://www.marketwatch.com/story/surgeon-general-wants-you-to-stop-buying-masks-to-protect-yourself-from-coronavirus-they-are-not-effective-2020-03-01?mod=article_inline https://www.marketwatch.com/story/surgeon-general-wants-you-... marketwatch.com/story/the-cdc-says-americans-dont-have-to-wear-facemasks-because-of-coronavirus-2020-01-30
    - wwweston 5y ago
      Regarding the surgeon general quote, if you understand that he's referring to protective masks (such as N95s) and their capacity -- and it's pretty clear that he is -- the contents of his statement holds up very well, even now. PPE is extra crucial for those working around infected people. Most members of the general public are unlikely to use N95s in such a way they'd be significantly protective (after watching how most people wear any kind of mask including x95s, I don't know anyone could argue differently, and that's before you get into the kind of fit testing that people who count on these things professionally do and speak of as difficult). What happened subsequently was a shift to cooperative masks whose benefit is primarily reducing transmission from the wearer. These two things are both discussed under the header of "masks" but they are very different interventions. It's less that the position changed, it's more that what authorities were actually talking about changed. You can fairly argue that this counts as a messaging failure and I'd agree, but a lot of people seem to be missing what the issue actually was (especially some who set this up as dishonesty or an attack on expertise).
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        Many N95s have valves that aren't permissable as COVID masks anyways. They are mostly designed to keep pollution out rather than your breath off of other people. I for one, am glad that N95s haven't been mandated. I found them extremely irritating when I had to wear them because of high pollution in Beijing. The masks we wear instead, in comparison, are much more comfortable.
    - tunesmith 5y ago
      This all makes sense when you remember that the scientific belief at the time were that COVID was spread through droplets and not aerosol. They later had evidence that COVID was aerosol transmitted - masks for everyone make more sense in that scenario.
  - Graffur 5y ago
    You're trying hard to rewrite what happened
    - wait_a_minute 5y ago
      You're just asserting that, but where is your rebuttal of their contentions?
  - amerkhalid 5y ago
    Here[1] is Dr. Fauci talking about how masks are mostly ineffective. Only at the end of the video, he agrees with the host that if everyone wears masks, it can lead to shortages for healthcare workers. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI

nerdponx 5y ago

But they burned huge amounts of their social trust capital in doing so, because they didn't just say "there are shortages, please stop hoarding masks", they outright lied about the efficacy of masks and perpetuated the lie for months. If people have no idea what to believe, it's because the government led a catastrophically inept response.

mike00632 5y ago
No. The CDC said AT THE TIME that they didn't recommend everyone wearing masks because hospitals were facing shortages. They have always been open about their reasoning and data. Quit repeating this terrible lie.
- malkuth23 5y ago
  That is not quite true. The CDC listed several reasons not to wear masks. They definitely mention a shortage of masks and retaining supply for medical personnel, but at the same time they also said they were unnecessary and unhelpful for anyone not working directly around symptomatic sick people. Also, most people do not differentiate the CDC from the Surgeon General. This is a quote from the LA Times quoting Jerome Adams: “Seriously people — STOP BUYING MASKS!” he wrote in a tweet that was later deleted. “They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!” This is a good article about the changing position on masks: https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-07-27/timeline-cdc-mask-guidance-during-covid-19-pandemic https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-07-27/timeline-cd... Here are a few other sources I found with a quick google search: https://www.aaha.org/publications/newstat/articles/2020-03/cdc-an-about-face-on-face-masks/ https://www.aaha.org/publications/newstat/articles/2020-03/c... https://www.marketwatch.com/story/surgeon-general-wants-you-to-stop-buying-masks-to-protect-yourself-from-coronavirus-they-are-not-effective-2020-03-01?mod=article_inline https://www.marketwatch.com/story/surgeon-general-wants-you-... marketwatch.com/story/the-cdc-says-americans-dont-have-to-wear-facemasks-because-of-coronavirus-2020-01-30
  - wwweston 5y ago
    Regarding the surgeon general quote, if you understand that he's referring to protective masks (such as N95s) and their capacity -- and it's pretty clear that he is -- the contents of his statement holds up very well, even now. PPE is extra crucial for those working around infected people. Most members of the general public are unlikely to use N95s in such a way they'd be significantly protective (after watching how most people wear any kind of mask including x95s, I don't know anyone could argue differently, and that's before you get into the kind of fit testing that people who count on these things professionally do and speak of as difficult). What happened subsequently was a shift to cooperative masks whose benefit is primarily reducing transmission from the wearer. These two things are both discussed under the header of "masks" but they are very different interventions. It's less that the position changed, it's more that what authorities were actually talking about changed. You can fairly argue that this counts as a messaging failure and I'd agree, but a lot of people seem to be missing what the issue actually was (especially some who set this up as dishonesty or an attack on expertise).
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      Many N95s have valves that aren't permissable as COVID masks anyways. They are mostly designed to keep pollution out rather than your breath off of other people. I for one, am glad that N95s haven't been mandated. I found them extremely irritating when I had to wear them because of high pollution in Beijing. The masks we wear instead, in comparison, are much more comfortable.
  - tunesmith 5y ago
    This all makes sense when you remember that the scientific belief at the time were that COVID was spread through droplets and not aerosol. They later had evidence that COVID was aerosol transmitted - masks for everyone make more sense in that scenario.
- Graffur 5y ago
  You're trying hard to rewrite what happened
  - wait_a_minute 5y ago
    You're just asserting that, but where is your rebuttal of their contentions?
- amerkhalid 5y ago
  Here[1] is Dr. Fauci talking about how masks are mostly ineffective. Only at the end of the video, he agrees with the host that if everyone wears masks, it can lead to shortages for healthcare workers. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI