7 ms·

Points to a bigger problem. Imagine how many startups simply don't come into existence because the founders are stuck on life long H1B visas. Or many times the

Points to a bigger problem. Imagine how many startups simply don't come into existence because the founders are stuck on life long H1B visas. Or many times the founders simply can't even make it into the US even though they have much needed skills. Skilled immigration into the US is much harder and way more uncertain than other nations. Massive amounts of paperwork (so much that you need a lawyer), lotteries, long wait times and in the end highly dependent on whichever immigration officer sees your application.

secondaryacct 5y ago
Yeah it's so weird - Im French, I emigrated to Hong Kong with literally no effort and will be permanent soon, I know I could go to Singapore, Taiwan, maybe Japan with ease and a good sponsor, or China with difficulty with a very good sponsor. I think Canada is an english test away, Australia should be not too hard. The US: just the whole thing stresses me. I d rather stay in Hong Kong forever than move to the US with all their weird paperwork, conditions etc. They dont want me, I wont insist :D
- triceratops 5y ago
  > I think Canada is an english test away Or French test.
  - belval 5y ago
    It's actually better if you have both because of the point system. If the author has both + is considered skilled labor it should be pretty easy to get in.
    - wing-_-nuts 5y ago
      ...and doesn't have a disability. Canada is awfully ableist, even when it comes to those who have skills and high paying jobs.
      - belval 5y ago
        Not to be controversial or incendiary, but why would a country with public healthcare accept immigrants that will put a bigger strain on its system? Socialized healthcare does not work if we accept people that never contributed to it with known previous disabilities.
        wing-_-nuts 5y ago
        That's the thing, Canada, at least, doesn't even evaluate the cost benefit. They (and NZ and some other commonwealth countries), are pretty ban happy when it comes to those with disabilities, even if the condition is stable and easily and cheaply treatable. I'd pay an order of magnitude more in taxes in CA than my medical costs, but they don't really care.
- bserge 5y ago
  So, you haven't even looked at the requirements. The US ain't easy to get to, but it's no China. Easier than Australia, actually.
  - whoisburbansky 5y ago
    If you're French, sure, easy enough.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
akomtu 5y ago
I know it's going to be unpopular here, but can those H1Bs go to the southern border, claim asylum and get fasttracked to GC without questions asked?
- ptudan 5y ago
  I don't think claiming asylum and no questions asked go hand in hand. There are many forms and approvals.
tdeck 5y ago
> Imagine how many startups simply don't come into existence because the founders are stuck on life long H1B visas. This implicitly assumes that startups need to happen in the U.S. Another option that may be more preferable to some founders is getting access to appropriate capital and resources in their home country, or in another country of their choice. Getting rid of the exploitative H1B system is only a solution for some people and having every founder move to the U.S. isn't necessarily good for the rest of world.
- baybal2 5y ago
  > Another option that may be more preferable to some founders is getting access to appropriate capital and resources in their home country, or in another country of their choice. I spent most of my childhood in Russia, and I am stuck with a Russian passport. Russia is a mafia state I absolutely don't want my children to grow up in. It's absolutely out of the question for anybody of talent, or ability. My parents personally knew a number of dollar millionaires who lost all their livelihoods to the mafia. No way I'm going back. So, what is the crowd of us expat entrepreneurs from 3rd world countries do have as an option? 1. Startup visas: largely open to people from first world countries only. Paperwork requirements make it effectively impossible to prove ones background as an entrepreneur, or a graduate of a high profile university. 2. Freelancer visas: a bit easier, most countries just want a proof of substantial income, or an LLC documents. It's still a perpetual visa program, without a way to settle down in most of these countries. Dubai PR was ever given to just few thousand people. Singapore PR is possible, but again not the lowest effort around. 3. Create a business in your home country, cook books, and establish a subsidiary in a developed world: explicitly illegal, but widely practiced to the point of getting some semi-official recognition. A patently absurd scheme normalising a nominally illegal behaviour. 4. Investment immigration, and such: investment immigration to the West is plainly out of reach financially to the most people whom I can genuinely call entrepreneurs. Western world's investment immigration programmes are both dysfunctional, and expensive, as they mean to steer you into bad investments. 5. Go from one 3rd-world mafia state, to another which is less of a mafia state; Have hope, and pray: pretty much the only option opened unconditionally to the widest number of people. 3rd world countries are very hungry for just any money, and their investment programmes are largely "anything goes," as well as having the least of inspections/scrutiny/enforcement. It's the toughest option, but the easiest to get into one. India will sell you a PR for 15 lakh USD, Indonesia for 8 lakh, Bangladesh for 75 thousand, and Pakistan for just around 35k-30k given the extreme PKR depreciation in recent years. I think it's the best option for anybody in the factory business, and 5-7 years experience actually running things, despite the South Asia's well known problems like extreme bureaucracy, and overt corruption.
jimmaswell 5y ago
> how many startups simply don't come into existence because the founders are stuck on life long H1B visas. How many American computer science graduates go unemployed because of H1B's? It seems like a lot of entry level work is now either completely outsourced or performed by consultancy companies that hire largely non-citizens. The problem doesn't even solely target new grads: https://m.economictimes.com/tech/ites/tcs-faces-us-trial-in-anti-american-bias-case/amp_articleshow/62277122.cms https://m.economictimes.com/tech/ites/tcs-faces-us-trial-in-...
- Causality1 5y ago
  I have a handful of friends that lost their jobs to H1Bs. The one at Disney even spent his last month training his replacement. Personally I'd raise the H1B salary floor to 100 grand.
obviouslynotme 5y ago
I will fully support H1B's when their minimum wages are $100k and they aren't tied to a sponsoring employer. Until then, they are slave labor used to bypass employment laws and shaft American workers.
- throw123123123 5y ago
  You mean unquota'd H1B? As in allow 10x or 50x the immigrants through that program?
  - unrealhoang 5y ago
    50x the immigrants with 100k+$? That would be a huge win.
  - mdorazio 5y ago
    Sure, I've been directly (adversely) impacted by the H1B program multiple times and I'd be perfectly fine if the program was auction based with a minimum floor on worker salaries at something like 1.1x the prevailing wage. If you really need H1B workers you should be willing to pay significantly more than it would cost to hire and train a domestic worker. If that's the case then great, H1B mission accomplished. Otherwise, the program is garbage and completely abused to depress wages for American workers.
    - throw123123123 5y ago
      What would be the loss of taking someone that makes 99k that someone that makes 101k makes it a win?
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  $100k isn't what it used to be. Original conception of the H1B program was for extremely specialized labor, not "I need a software developer" labor.
baybal2 5y ago
> Points to a bigger problem. Imagine how many startups simply don't come into existence because the founders are stuck on life long H1B visas. > Or many times the founders simply can't even make it into the US even though they have much needed skills. It points to a very obvious solution: Don't go to US to start a business. There are megatons of "startup visa" programs, government backed accelerators, and generally much healthier tech ecosystems than the US around the world. > Skilled immigration into the US is much harder and way more uncertain than other nations. Yet, the American Dream is still a such potent image, US still ends being the world's No.1 migration destination, unless you take the EU as a whole. Canada has lowered its immigration threshold to the point of almost every professional with some degree, and English knowledge can move there by themselves in their late twenties. Yet, they the immigration digits are not driven now by the cutoff threshold, but by the number of applicants. Canada is a heck of a good option to immigrate to, except for the job market. It's easily in the top 10... yet. In my case, after living in Canada for 6 years, and getting a kick to the butt due to LMIA, I don't want to go back. First, because I don't want to beg the same government which delivered me a kick to the butt to give me a work permit; Second, the job market in is just that weak.

secondaryacct 5y ago

Yeah it's so weird - Im French, I emigrated to Hong Kong with literally no effort and will be permanent soon, I know I could go to Singapore, Taiwan, maybe Japan with ease and a good sponsor, or China with difficulty with a very good sponsor. I think Canada is an english test away, Australia should be not too hard. The US: just the whole thing stresses me. I d rather stay in Hong Kong forever than move to the US with all their weird paperwork, conditions etc. They dont want me, I wont insist :D

triceratops 5y ago
> I think Canada is an english test away Or French test.
- belval 5y ago
  It's actually better if you have both because of the point system. If the author has both + is considered skilled labor it should be pretty easy to get in.
  - wing-_-nuts 5y ago
    ...and doesn't have a disability. Canada is awfully ableist, even when it comes to those who have skills and high paying jobs.
    - belval 5y ago
      Not to be controversial or incendiary, but why would a country with public healthcare accept immigrants that will put a bigger strain on its system? Socialized healthcare does not work if we accept people that never contributed to it with known previous disabilities.
      - wing-_-nuts 5y ago
        That's the thing, Canada, at least, doesn't even evaluate the cost benefit. They (and NZ and some other commonwealth countries), are pretty ban happy when it comes to those with disabilities, even if the condition is stable and easily and cheaply treatable. I'd pay an order of magnitude more in taxes in CA than my medical costs, but they don't really care.
bserge 5y ago
So, you haven't even looked at the requirements. The US ain't easy to get to, but it's no China. Easier than Australia, actually.
- whoisburbansky 5y ago
  If you're French, sure, easy enough.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

akomtu 5y ago

I know it's going to be unpopular here, but can those H1Bs go to the southern border, claim asylum and get fasttracked to GC without questions asked?

ptudan 5y ago
I don't think claiming asylum and no questions asked go hand in hand. There are many forms and approvals.

tdeck 5y ago

> Imagine how many startups simply don't come into existence because the founders are stuck on life long H1B visas. This implicitly assumes that startups need to happen in the U.S. Another option that may be more preferable to some founders is getting access to appropriate capital and resources in their home country, or in another country of their choice. Getting rid of the exploitative H1B system is only a solution for some people and having every founder move to the U.S. isn't necessarily good for the rest of world.

baybal2 5y ago
> Another option that may be more preferable to some founders is getting access to appropriate capital and resources in their home country, or in another country of their choice. I spent most of my childhood in Russia, and I am stuck with a Russian passport. Russia is a mafia state I absolutely don't want my children to grow up in. It's absolutely out of the question for anybody of talent, or ability. My parents personally knew a number of dollar millionaires who lost all their livelihoods to the mafia. No way I'm going back. So, what is the crowd of us expat entrepreneurs from 3rd world countries do have as an option? 1. Startup visas: largely open to people from first world countries only. Paperwork requirements make it effectively impossible to prove ones background as an entrepreneur, or a graduate of a high profile university. 2. Freelancer visas: a bit easier, most countries just want a proof of substantial income, or an LLC documents. It's still a perpetual visa program, without a way to settle down in most of these countries. Dubai PR was ever given to just few thousand people. Singapore PR is possible, but again not the lowest effort around. 3. Create a business in your home country, cook books, and establish a subsidiary in a developed world: explicitly illegal, but widely practiced to the point of getting some semi-official recognition. A patently absurd scheme normalising a nominally illegal behaviour. 4. Investment immigration, and such: investment immigration to the West is plainly out of reach financially to the most people whom I can genuinely call entrepreneurs. Western world's investment immigration programmes are both dysfunctional, and expensive, as they mean to steer you into bad investments. 5. Go from one 3rd-world mafia state, to another which is less of a mafia state; Have hope, and pray: pretty much the only option opened unconditionally to the widest number of people. 3rd world countries are very hungry for just any money, and their investment programmes are largely "anything goes," as well as having the least of inspections/scrutiny/enforcement. It's the toughest option, but the easiest to get into one. India will sell you a PR for 15 lakh USD, Indonesia for 8 lakh, Bangladesh for 75 thousand, and Pakistan for just around 35k-30k given the extreme PKR depreciation in recent years. I think it's the best option for anybody in the factory business, and 5-7 years experience actually running things, despite the South Asia's well known problems like extreme bureaucracy, and overt corruption.

jimmaswell 5y ago

> how many startups simply don't come into existence because the founders are stuck on life long H1B visas. How many American computer science graduates go unemployed because of H1B's? It seems like a lot of entry level work is now either completely outsourced or performed by consultancy companies that hire largely non-citizens. The problem doesn't even solely target new grads: https://m.economictimes.com/tech/ites/tcs-faces-us-trial-in-anti-american-bias-case/amp_articleshow/62277122.cms https://m.economictimes.com/tech/ites/tcs-faces-us-trial-in-...

Causality1 5y ago
I have a handful of friends that lost their jobs to H1Bs. The one at Disney even spent his last month training his replacement. Personally I'd raise the H1B salary floor to 100 grand.

obviouslynotme 5y ago

I will fully support H1B's when their minimum wages are $100k and they aren't tied to a sponsoring employer. Until then, they are slave labor used to bypass employment laws and shaft American workers.

throw123123123 5y ago
You mean unquota'd H1B? As in allow 10x or 50x the immigrants through that program?
- unrealhoang 5y ago
  50x the immigrants with 100k+$? That would be a huge win.
- mdorazio 5y ago
  Sure, I've been directly (adversely) impacted by the H1B program multiple times and I'd be perfectly fine if the program was auction based with a minimum floor on worker salaries at something like 1.1x the prevailing wage. If you really need H1B workers you should be willing to pay significantly more than it would cost to hire and train a domestic worker. If that's the case then great, H1B mission accomplished. Otherwise, the program is garbage and completely abused to depress wages for American workers.
  - throw123123123 5y ago
    What would be the loss of taking someone that makes 99k that someone that makes 101k makes it a win?
R0b0t1 5y ago
$100k isn't what it used to be. Original conception of the H1B program was for extremely specialized labor, not "I need a software developer" labor.

baybal2 5y ago

> Points to a bigger problem. Imagine how many startups simply don't come into existence because the founders are stuck on life long H1B visas. > Or many times the founders simply can't even make it into the US even though they have much needed skills. It points to a very obvious solution: Don't go to US to start a business. There are megatons of "startup visa" programs, government backed accelerators, and generally much healthier tech ecosystems than the US around the world. > Skilled immigration into the US is much harder and way more uncertain than other nations. Yet, the American Dream is still a such potent image, US still ends being the world's No.1 migration destination, unless you take the EU as a whole. Canada has lowered its immigration threshold to the point of almost every professional with some degree, and English knowledge can move there by themselves in their late twenties. Yet, they the immigration digits are not driven now by the cutoff threshold, but by the number of applicants. Canada is a heck of a good option to immigrate to, except for the job market. It's easily in the top 10... yet. In my case, after living in Canada for 6 years, and getting a kick to the butt due to LMIA, I don't want to go back. First, because I don't want to beg the same government which delivered me a kick to the butt to give me a work permit; Second, the job market in is just that weak.