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So following your argument, we would also need to outlaw every sort of risk-taking behaviour. Almost every sport except chess bears a risk comparable to what y

So following your argument, we would also need to outlaw every sort of risk-taking behaviour. Almost every sport except chess bears a risk comparable to what you say above. And most recreational activities also bear a risk that you might have an accident, which could put some stress on the people working at the hospital. Heck, the helicopter pilot could crash while they bring you to safety, so you implicitly killed them. In fact, everything you do outisde of your workhours is your personal risk, so it needs to be banned I guess. Sounds fine to me. I am blind and can not do most of the fancy recreational activities you sighted people are so fond of. So why should I care. In fact, I should immediately start a petition that makes your lifes more dull and miserable. But guess what, no. Thats not my thing. I am not an asshole.

yojo 5y ago
The required changes to liberty are substantially different. Giving up your hobbies means making a major change to your life. Getting two shots takes a cumulative 2ish hours. Do you claim you receive substantial benefits from not getting a shot? Because I claim society gets substantial benefits from you getting vaccinated. You’re trying to make this a binary thing, but we live in a society where collectively we try to make small trades in liberty for collective benefit. I do expect you not to drive 60MPH in front of my house where my children play. I do not expect you to give up tennis.
- mlang23 5y ago
  Yes, my "substiantial benefit" is not exposing my system to an artificially created addiction/dependency on fabricated meds. What you seem to ignore is the long term effect of going down that path as a society. If the death rate in my age group were higher, believe me, I would take a shot. But since I am statistically not really at risk, I prefer to not make myself dependent on vaccination to survive.
  - yojo 5y ago
    I’m not aware of any evidence that vaccinations of any kind cause addiction. Please provide citations.
    - mlang23 5y ago
      Almost all vaccine producers claim effectivity for about 9 months, right? So after 9 months, you need to get another shot. Since you have decided your immune system can not handle COVID on its own, you have now a dependency on the vaccine. Thats what I call an addiction. Better english word is probably a dependency...
- mlang23 5y ago
  Frankly, if you insist I get a biannual shot for your reasons, I insist that you give up tennis because I dont see why I should pay a single penny for your spare time activities. I am willing to retract my retarded claim if you do the same.
  - yojo 5y ago
    You agree that as society you make some concessions for the greater good? I assume you (roughly) coming with speed limits, yes? And driving slower almost certainly takes more of your time every year than getting a shot. Both measures save other people’s lives. I don’t think you have a leg to stand on here.
tw04 5y ago
>So following your argument, we would also need to outlaw every sort of risk-taking behaviour. We do outlaw almost every sort of behavior that risks OTHERS safety. >Almost every sport except chess bears a risk comparable to what you say above. I'm not aware of any sport which is mandatory, as far as I know everyone participating is doing so willingly. >And most recreational activities also bear a risk that you might have an accident, which could put some stress on the people working at the hospital. Again, I'm not aware of any recreational activity that is a required activity. I'm also not aware of any that are participated in by so many people that is simultaneously so risky that we have an issue with ICU beds. Can you name one? We have mountains of data showing that covid outbreaks stress hospital systems and are in fact doing that right now. I'm not aware of any evidence that sports or recreational activities do the same, but I'm open to learning. >Heck, the helicopter pilot could crash while they bring you to safety, so you implicitly killed them. The helicopter pilot voluntarily signed up to be a helicopter pilot, nobody forced him to do so. >Sounds fine to me. I am blind and can not do most of the fancy recreational activities you sighted people are so fond of. So why should I care. In fact, I should immediately start a petition that makes your lifes more dull and miserable. But guess what, no. Thats not my thing. I am not an asshole. Well, you're comparing recreational activities that carry low risk and have 0 history of causing an issue with ICU beds, to a disease which has an extremely high transmission rate, and is provably causing issues with ICU beds. So it makes your arguments seem rather silly.
tnel77 5y ago
Viruses and diseases tend to have a way of spreading and causing harm that voluntary sports don’t seem to have. Two willing participants crashing into each other and needing hospitalization is not nearly the same as one selfish person coughing their way around the grocery store. The infected person in the grocery store has now not only infected a good number of people in the store, but will be the root cause of many future cases as those fellow shoppers continue to live their lives. You have a choice to play a sport. People don’t have a choice to live their lives (work, shop for groceries, send their kids to school, etc).

yojo 5y ago

The required changes to liberty are substantially different. Giving up your hobbies means making a major change to your life. Getting two shots takes a cumulative 2ish hours. Do you claim you receive substantial benefits from not getting a shot? Because I claim society gets substantial benefits from you getting vaccinated. You’re trying to make this a binary thing, but we live in a society where collectively we try to make small trades in liberty for collective benefit. I do expect you not to drive 60MPH in front of my house where my children play. I do not expect you to give up tennis.

mlang23 5y ago
Yes, my "substiantial benefit" is not exposing my system to an artificially created addiction/dependency on fabricated meds. What you seem to ignore is the long term effect of going down that path as a society. If the death rate in my age group were higher, believe me, I would take a shot. But since I am statistically not really at risk, I prefer to not make myself dependent on vaccination to survive.
- yojo 5y ago
  I’m not aware of any evidence that vaccinations of any kind cause addiction. Please provide citations.
  - mlang23 5y ago
    Almost all vaccine producers claim effectivity for about 9 months, right? So after 9 months, you need to get another shot. Since you have decided your immune system can not handle COVID on its own, you have now a dependency on the vaccine. Thats what I call an addiction. Better english word is probably a dependency...
mlang23 5y ago
Frankly, if you insist I get a biannual shot for your reasons, I insist that you give up tennis because I dont see why I should pay a single penny for your spare time activities. I am willing to retract my retarded claim if you do the same.
- yojo 5y ago
  You agree that as society you make some concessions for the greater good? I assume you (roughly) coming with speed limits, yes? And driving slower almost certainly takes more of your time every year than getting a shot. Both measures save other people’s lives. I don’t think you have a leg to stand on here.

tw04 5y ago

>So following your argument, we would also need to outlaw every sort of risk-taking behaviour. We do outlaw almost every sort of behavior that risks OTHERS safety. >Almost every sport except chess bears a risk comparable to what you say above. I'm not aware of any sport which is mandatory, as far as I know everyone participating is doing so willingly. >And most recreational activities also bear a risk that you might have an accident, which could put some stress on the people working at the hospital. Again, I'm not aware of any recreational activity that is a required activity. I'm also not aware of any that are participated in by so many people that is simultaneously so risky that we have an issue with ICU beds. Can you name one? We have mountains of data showing that covid outbreaks stress hospital systems and are in fact doing that right now. I'm not aware of any evidence that sports or recreational activities do the same, but I'm open to learning. >Heck, the helicopter pilot could crash while they bring you to safety, so you implicitly killed them. The helicopter pilot voluntarily signed up to be a helicopter pilot, nobody forced him to do so. >Sounds fine to me. I am blind and can not do most of the fancy recreational activities you sighted people are so fond of. So why should I care. In fact, I should immediately start a petition that makes your lifes more dull and miserable. But guess what, no. Thats not my thing. I am not an asshole. Well, you're comparing recreational activities that carry low risk and have 0 history of causing an issue with ICU beds, to a disease which has an extremely high transmission rate, and is provably causing issues with ICU beds. So it makes your arguments seem rather silly.

tnel77 5y ago

Viruses and diseases tend to have a way of spreading and causing harm that voluntary sports don’t seem to have. Two willing participants crashing into each other and needing hospitalization is not nearly the same as one selfish person coughing their way around the grocery store. The infected person in the grocery store has now not only infected a good number of people in the store, but will be the root cause of many future cases as those fellow shoppers continue to live their lives. You have a choice to play a sport. People don’t have a choice to live their lives (work, shop for groceries, send their kids to school, etc).