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The latter. I'm probably not at risk from either the virus or the shot. Unfortunately you can't isolate a world-altering issue like this from its psychological

The latter. I'm probably not at risk from either the virus or the shot. Unfortunately you can't isolate a world-altering issue like this from its psychological and political context, so for me any respiratory-disease-related risk is secondary to the much bigger threat. "Live free or die" is not an empty slogan. I will be standing with the unvaxxed to the bitter end, although it probably won't go that far.

Bhilai 5y ago
Very curious to know, are you and your family (if you have kids) have not vaccinated for other kinds of stuff like Polio, HepA, HepB, Varicella etc. or is your objection just for Covid vaccines?
erhk 5y ago
You misunderstand me. Being vaccinated is your civic duty. Failing to do so is unpatriotic.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
Almost nobody is at risk from COVID-19. The 600k+ people who died from it so far in the US represents a tiny, tiny percentage of the population. Even after every single person has been exposed to the virus, it seems likely that the individual risk will remain extremely small. The problem with COVID-19 has never been the risk it poses for you as an individual, but the public health aspects. It is highly infectious; some number of cases require hospitalization; if too many people require that at the same time, the public health implications are substantial, much broader than COVID-19 itself, and potentially lethal. Ergo, we have a civic responsibility to take steps to reduce the chance of this happening, and the simplest way to do that is vaccination and masks.
- adventured 5y ago
  > Almost nobody is at risk from COVID-19. The 600k+ people who died from it so far in the US represents a tiny, tiny percentage of the population. True for the US, sure, because of its healthcare capacity and financial resources (rapid development and deployment of potent mRNA vaccines). Peru has likely lost near 1% of its entire population due to Covid (200k deaths, 32m population, guaranteed vast undercount due to local conditions). They'll recover from that no doubt, and the population will ultimately acquire widespread immunity with or without vaccines (which would bring down the rate of deaths), however it's definitely not a tiny percentage of the population to lose so quickly. It's going to be an incredible rolling challenge to handle the bottom ~3-4 billion people getting Covid vaccinations every year to prevent millions of people from dying annually. And that's assuming the mass propogation of Covid to all humans and a lot of animals isn't going to eventually unleash super deadly strains.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    >... isn't going to eventually unleash super deadly strains. The Guardian had an interview last week or the week before with someone who appeared to know what they were talking about. They made the point that there are dozens of known respiratory viruses already, and that although they constantly mutate and pose new challenges, we have not seen them ever mutate into "super deadly" strains. I take some comfort from that (even though it is clearly not a sure thing).
outside1234 5y ago
But then you spread it someone else that is at risk. Getting vaccinated is not about you only. It is about reducing the risk to all of us.
eagsalazar2 5y ago
It is an empty slogan coming from you. You apply it so nonsensically here that it is obvious you care more about chest pounding faux-nationalism than the true meaning of those words. Consider the fact that right now in the US, no one is being forced to take the vaccine. No one. So your choice to defiantly refuse the vaccine is just defiance against a boogeyman you have self-servingly created, not an act of defiance against oppression. Note: there are half-way decent arguments against taking the vaccine. Resisting govt oppression is not one of them.
- OJFord 5y ago
  Well to be fair there's significant 'peer pressure' (just look at this thread!) and there's debate about 'vaccine passports' for non-travel, i.e. restaurants etc. I had my second dose today, but I'm against having to 'prove' (or comment on) that when I decide to go anywhere (within the UK, I don't mean for travel) again.
  - eagsalazar2 5y ago
    Why? As a private business I can exclude you for many reasons. If I believe you pose a health risk to me, and I demand you prove you've been vaccinated, that's my choice and it is your choice to take your business elsewhere. I might piss off or lose all my customers but that is my right. Again, no govt oppression or threat to your liberty.
    - OJFord 5y ago
      I wrote another couple of paragraphs that touched on that but deleted them.. yes, as an option for individual businesses, fine, free market, fully in support of that. I just don't want to see it mandated. (Nor disallowed.)
- guscost 5y ago
  You are of course entitled to your own opinion, but I am still going to do what I think is right, and you are going to deal with it. Simple as that.

Bhilai 5y ago

Very curious to know, are you and your family (if you have kids) have not vaccinated for other kinds of stuff like Polio, HepA, HepB, Varicella etc. or is your objection just for Covid vaccines?

erhk 5y ago

You misunderstand me. Being vaccinated is your civic duty. Failing to do so is unpatriotic.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

Almost nobody is at risk from COVID-19. The 600k+ people who died from it so far in the US represents a tiny, tiny percentage of the population. Even after every single person has been exposed to the virus, it seems likely that the individual risk will remain extremely small. The problem with COVID-19 has never been the risk it poses for you as an individual, but the public health aspects. It is highly infectious; some number of cases require hospitalization; if too many people require that at the same time, the public health implications are substantial, much broader than COVID-19 itself, and potentially lethal. Ergo, we have a civic responsibility to take steps to reduce the chance of this happening, and the simplest way to do that is vaccination and masks.

adventured 5y ago
> Almost nobody is at risk from COVID-19. The 600k+ people who died from it so far in the US represents a tiny, tiny percentage of the population. True for the US, sure, because of its healthcare capacity and financial resources (rapid development and deployment of potent mRNA vaccines). Peru has likely lost near 1% of its entire population due to Covid (200k deaths, 32m population, guaranteed vast undercount due to local conditions). They'll recover from that no doubt, and the population will ultimately acquire widespread immunity with or without vaccines (which would bring down the rate of deaths), however it's definitely not a tiny percentage of the population to lose so quickly. It's going to be an incredible rolling challenge to handle the bottom ~3-4 billion people getting Covid vaccinations every year to prevent millions of people from dying annually. And that's assuming the mass propogation of Covid to all humans and a lot of animals isn't going to eventually unleash super deadly strains.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  >... isn't going to eventually unleash super deadly strains. The Guardian had an interview last week or the week before with someone who appeared to know what they were talking about. They made the point that there are dozens of known respiratory viruses already, and that although they constantly mutate and pose new challenges, we have not seen them ever mutate into "super deadly" strains. I take some comfort from that (even though it is clearly not a sure thing).

outside1234 5y ago

But then you spread it someone else that is at risk. Getting vaccinated is not about you only. It is about reducing the risk to all of us.

eagsalazar2 5y ago

It is an empty slogan coming from you. You apply it so nonsensically here that it is obvious you care more about chest pounding faux-nationalism than the true meaning of those words. Consider the fact that right now in the US, no one is being forced to take the vaccine. No one. So your choice to defiantly refuse the vaccine is just defiance against a boogeyman you have self-servingly created, not an act of defiance against oppression. Note: there are half-way decent arguments against taking the vaccine. Resisting govt oppression is not one of them.

OJFord 5y ago
Well to be fair there's significant 'peer pressure' (just look at this thread!) and there's debate about 'vaccine passports' for non-travel, i.e. restaurants etc. I had my second dose today, but I'm against having to 'prove' (or comment on) that when I decide to go anywhere (within the UK, I don't mean for travel) again.
- eagsalazar2 5y ago
  Why? As a private business I can exclude you for many reasons. If I believe you pose a health risk to me, and I demand you prove you've been vaccinated, that's my choice and it is your choice to take your business elsewhere. I might piss off or lose all my customers but that is my right. Again, no govt oppression or threat to your liberty.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    I wrote another couple of paragraphs that touched on that but deleted them.. yes, as an option for individual businesses, fine, free market, fully in support of that. I just don't want to see it mandated. (Nor disallowed.)
guscost 5y ago
You are of course entitled to your own opinion, but I am still going to do what I think is right, and you are going to deal with it. Simple as that.