7 ms·

> Microsoft can sell me their operating system in a minute if they just stop all the stupid telemetry, remove the bloat and by default turn all privacy and sec

> Microsoft can sell me their operating system in a minute if they just stop all the stupid telemetry, remove the bloat and by default turn all privacy and security options to on and not off I don't think Microsoft is in the business of selling desktop OSs anymore, despite the fact that they still charge money for them. All of their behavior suggests complete disdain for the desktop and users of the desktop. I think Windows is only still being developed because it is a delivery platform for ads and telemetry. For the moment I'll still take it over the alternatives, but I'm confident Microsoft will eventually push me over the edge.

Silhouette 5y ago
The question as always is what you could replace it with. We have an unfortunate situation where Microsoft had a near-monopoly on the desktop for so long that credible alternatives are lacking for many users. Even if they like some particular flavour of Apple or *nix as an OS, the applications they need might not be available on that platform. I wonder what the forever-defenders of Windows think they will do if Microsoft continues along the course set by Nadella and the current senior team and the situation with intrusions and lack of control over your own equipment continues to deteriorate.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Honestly I'm probably just going to stop using computers so much if that happens. Linux Desktop has consistently proven that it has no interest in doing anything in a sane or consistent manner, and Apple is just as bad as Microsoft in terms of fucking shit up for no reason, only in different ways. If we're very very lucky, something like Haiku will gain a hypervisor, WINE port, and graphical acceleration, then take off in popularity and become the last refuge of the desktop. I'm pretty skeptical it'll go down like that though.
  - JohnFen 5y ago
    > Honestly I'm probably just going to stop using computers so much if that happens. The state of mobile software (including the OS) has become so awful that I've already decided to stop using a smartphone entirely.
  - keyb0ardninja 5y ago
    > Linux Desktop has consistently proven that it has no interest in doing anything in a sane or consistent manner Could you explain that a bit more?
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      Yes, but I won't because I find that posts like yours are only interested in performative argumentation for the sake of convincing some nebulous group of "future readers" that Linux Desktop is worth considering. I'll save you the trouble: Dear readers, Linux Desktop is fine if you like the way it works. I encourage using tools you like. If you haven't tried it, it might work for you. I don't like the way works, I've expounded upon the details many times, and I'm not interested in further performative argumentation on the subject.
    - hamburglar 5y ago
      This weekend I was traveling with my kubuntu machine and despite searching for at least 20 minutes, I was unable to find the controlpanel/settings page/widget/app that will allow me to connect a WiFi network, so I gave up and switched to gnome.
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    Who do you imagine this "Linux Desktop" is, that you attribute lack of interest to? Various groups make desktop environments that may be used on Linux, as diverse as KDE, Gnome, Chrome, and Android. It could possibly make sense to complain about one or other of them, or even several. As it is your complaint is entirely nonsensical, a category error like saying red is too hot.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      > Who do you imagine this "Linux Desktop" is The community of people who make and distribute Linux distributions and software intended for the Desktop use case, when taken as a whole. > Various groups make desktop environments that may be used on Linux, as diverse as KDE, Gnome, Chrome, and Android. Calling Android or ChromeOS a Linux Desktop is incredibly disingenuous. > It could possibly make sense to complain about one or other of them, or even several. Every distribution has the same problems because they are all built with more or less the same hodgepodges of desperately developed software.
      - evilduck 5y ago
        > Every distribution has the same problems because they are all built with more or less the same hodgepodges of desperately developed software. In other words, slightly better than trying to change system settings in Windows 10?
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        Well no. The new settings panels in Windows 10 certainly do suck ass and contribute to the general UI fragmentation, but the systems that are the foundation of the Windows operating system are not disparately developed hodgepodges. The same cannot be said for Linux Desktop, although with SystemD taking over everything that might not remain true indefinitely.
- tumblewit 5y ago
  With ARM, the lack of control might deteriorate even further. While the underlying architecture might not have much to do with it, the accelerators in these SOCs just give more options for Microsoft to collect data and lock down devices even further.
passivate 5y ago
I have the opposite experience. MS has enabled our company to save tens of thousands of dollars because of their unwillingness to compromise on backwards compat. Literally we take CD's burned a decade(s) ago and the software installs and functions just fine. In our field, software tends to cost five digits and upwards so its a big F* deal. I can't imagine any other vendor coming even close. I don't particularly care for their other products, but Windows has earned a ton of respect from me.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Yeah, that's one of the reasons I still choose Windows over the other desktop OSs. PowerShell is also great. The problem is that they take this great base and plaster a slow, dysfunctional, half-thought-out, user-hostile interface on top of it stuffed with telemetry, ads, and dark patterns designed to push you to their cloud services.
  - passivate 5y ago
    Agreed, No argument there.
ncmncm 5y ago
Like the battered wife staying because "I can still stand it."
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  I'm curious if you think statements like this really help paint the Linux Desktop community in a good light. Because honestly as much as I don't like a lot of things about how Linux Desktop works the community is also a significant factor in driving me away.
  - worik 5y ago
    True Filing bug reports is a exercise in getting abused. I installed a clean install on a Raspberry PI, installed emcas (which I have used for about thirty years), and found a utility did not work (I will conceal the guilty - it is a common story) I filed a bug report, and was abused because I was using a emacs distribution that was three years old - how could I possibly think that any problems I saw be anything but my fault , and didn't I have better things to do than waste their time with my idiot ramblings. What sort of silly child acts like that? What a crock! Some parts of the Free Software community are much better. (Rust, for example, nothing but respect for my idiot ramblings). But some parts are still full of the "bigger dick" egomaniacs....
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      Who "acts like that"? Maybe somebody unpaid and abused over a bug maybe already fixed, years ago. What "silly child" abuses unpaid maintainers? Oh, right, you. If you just want somebody whose job is to listen to you complain, there are companies that will sell you a contract for that.
      - BizarroLand 5y ago
        Sorry your life sucks so much that you have to be an ass on the internet to strangers to feel better about yourself. I hope things get better for you one day.
mr_toad 5y ago
Enterprise desktop is still a cash cow.

Silhouette 5y ago

The question as always is what you could replace it with. We have an unfortunate situation where Microsoft had a near-monopoly on the desktop for so long that credible alternatives are lacking for many users. Even if they like some particular flavour of Apple or *nix as an OS, the applications they need might not be available on that platform. I wonder what the forever-defenders of Windows think they will do if Microsoft continues along the course set by Nadella and the current senior team and the situation with intrusions and lack of control over your own equipment continues to deteriorate.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Honestly I'm probably just going to stop using computers so much if that happens. Linux Desktop has consistently proven that it has no interest in doing anything in a sane or consistent manner, and Apple is just as bad as Microsoft in terms of fucking shit up for no reason, only in different ways. If we're very very lucky, something like Haiku will gain a hypervisor, WINE port, and graphical acceleration, then take off in popularity and become the last refuge of the desktop. I'm pretty skeptical it'll go down like that though.
- JohnFen 5y ago
  > Honestly I'm probably just going to stop using computers so much if that happens. The state of mobile software (including the OS) has become so awful that I've already decided to stop using a smartphone entirely.
- keyb0ardninja 5y ago
  > Linux Desktop has consistently proven that it has no interest in doing anything in a sane or consistent manner Could you explain that a bit more?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Yes, but I won't because I find that posts like yours are only interested in performative argumentation for the sake of convincing some nebulous group of "future readers" that Linux Desktop is worth considering. I'll save you the trouble: Dear readers, Linux Desktop is fine if you like the way it works. I encourage using tools you like. If you haven't tried it, it might work for you. I don't like the way works, I've expounded upon the details many times, and I'm not interested in further performative argumentation on the subject.
  - hamburglar 5y ago
    This weekend I was traveling with my kubuntu machine and despite searching for at least 20 minutes, I was unable to find the controlpanel/settings page/widget/app that will allow me to connect a WiFi network, so I gave up and switched to gnome.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Who do you imagine this "Linux Desktop" is, that you attribute lack of interest to? Various groups make desktop environments that may be used on Linux, as diverse as KDE, Gnome, Chrome, and Android. It could possibly make sense to complain about one or other of them, or even several. As it is your complaint is entirely nonsensical, a category error like saying red is too hot.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    > Who do you imagine this "Linux Desktop" is The community of people who make and distribute Linux distributions and software intended for the Desktop use case, when taken as a whole. > Various groups make desktop environments that may be used on Linux, as diverse as KDE, Gnome, Chrome, and Android. Calling Android or ChromeOS a Linux Desktop is incredibly disingenuous. > It could possibly make sense to complain about one or other of them, or even several. Every distribution has the same problems because they are all built with more or less the same hodgepodges of desperately developed software.
    - evilduck 5y ago
      > Every distribution has the same problems because they are all built with more or less the same hodgepodges of desperately developed software. In other words, slightly better than trying to change system settings in Windows 10?
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        Well no. The new settings panels in Windows 10 certainly do suck ass and contribute to the general UI fragmentation, but the systems that are the foundation of the Windows operating system are not disparately developed hodgepodges. The same cannot be said for Linux Desktop, although with SystemD taking over everything that might not remain true indefinitely.
tumblewit 5y ago
With ARM, the lack of control might deteriorate even further. While the underlying architecture might not have much to do with it, the accelerators in these SOCs just give more options for Microsoft to collect data and lock down devices even further.

passivate 5y ago

I have the opposite experience. MS has enabled our company to save tens of thousands of dollars because of their unwillingness to compromise on backwards compat. Literally we take CD's burned a decade(s) ago and the software installs and functions just fine. In our field, software tends to cost five digits and upwards so its a big F* deal. I can't imagine any other vendor coming even close. I don't particularly care for their other products, but Windows has earned a ton of respect from me.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Yeah, that's one of the reasons I still choose Windows over the other desktop OSs. PowerShell is also great. The problem is that they take this great base and plaster a slow, dysfunctional, half-thought-out, user-hostile interface on top of it stuffed with telemetry, ads, and dark patterns designed to push you to their cloud services.
- passivate 5y ago
  Agreed, No argument there.

ncmncm 5y ago

Like the battered wife staying because "I can still stand it."

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
I'm curious if you think statements like this really help paint the Linux Desktop community in a good light. Because honestly as much as I don't like a lot of things about how Linux Desktop works the community is also a significant factor in driving me away.
- worik 5y ago
  True Filing bug reports is a exercise in getting abused. I installed a clean install on a Raspberry PI, installed emcas (which I have used for about thirty years), and found a utility did not work (I will conceal the guilty - it is a common story) I filed a bug report, and was abused because I was using a emacs distribution that was three years old - how could I possibly think that any problems I saw be anything but my fault , and didn't I have better things to do than waste their time with my idiot ramblings. What sort of silly child acts like that? What a crock! Some parts of the Free Software community are much better. (Rust, for example, nothing but respect for my idiot ramblings). But some parts are still full of the "bigger dick" egomaniacs....
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    Who "acts like that"? Maybe somebody unpaid and abused over a bug maybe already fixed, years ago. What "silly child" abuses unpaid maintainers? Oh, right, you. If you just want somebody whose job is to listen to you complain, there are companies that will sell you a contract for that.
    - BizarroLand 5y ago
      Sorry your life sucks so much that you have to be an ass on the internet to strangers to feel better about yourself. I hope things get better for you one day.

mr_toad 5y ago

Enterprise desktop is still a cash cow.