4 ms·

I've always left "location history" turned off, never found it useful enough to turn on at all... BUT I don't understand if that's even enough to prevent Google

I've always left "location history" turned off, never found it useful enough to turn on at all... BUT I don't understand if that's even enough to prevent Google from having the records that can be accessed via warrant. I have "location history" off, but I have "location services" ON, to allow for instance Google Maps to know my current location. THAT is useful enough I'd have trouble doing without it, Google Maps knowing my location (or uber, tinder, etc, things that won't work without it). It's unclear to me leaving "location services" is enough to create the records that can be accessed with a geofence warrant? Even with "location history" off entirely/purged? The article says: "collected from users’ phones when they use an Android device with location data switched on" It doesn't sound like deleting old location history, or even turning off location history entirely will actually limit anything at all for these warrants? Actually turning off location services might, but if you find it inconvenient to even turn off "location history", I don't think you'll like that solution much...

throwawayboise 5y ago
I keep location services off unless I'm actively using Google Maps for navigation (you don't need to turn it on to just look at a map of an area). I'd be more comfortable if my phone had a kill switch for GPS, but it doesn't.
sen 5y ago
It’s fair to assume that every single interaction you have with any major website is logged and stored, and disabling any “history” features etc is only for yourself, eg if you’re on a shared computer. There’s absolutely no way any of the FAANGs would let you use their service without harvesting your data. It’s their reason for existing and any other “features” (like search, maps, video) is just the carrot to get you there.
- refulgentis 5y ago
  This is both the best organic example of FUD I've seen since Slashdot articles on Microsoft during the Windows/Linux battles 20 years ago, and an excellent example of the black hole nihilism of 2010s HN on data - free, fantastic tools used by billions are reduced to a "carrot" for "data harvesting"
  - bayindirh 5y ago
    Why a multi-billion tech conglomerate should code "free, fantastic tools used by billions", if it's not going to get anything from it? We openly trained/training image detection algorithms with re-captcha for example.
  - Cipater 5y ago
    So why do they offer these services for free? Altruism?
- whoknowswhat11 5y ago
  Most sites do track forever. That said google at least and I think Microsoft anonymizes a bit after I think 18 months or so, and does the last bits of an IP address before anything is written to disk on the google analytics side.
- nl 5y ago
  Google deletes old data after 18 months for new users: https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/google-collects-a-frightening-amount-of-data-about-you-you-can-find-and-delete-it-now/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/google-colle... For users who signed up before that point you choose how long to keep it for.
  - trasz 5y ago
    Or at least claims to do so. No reason not to trust them about it, right?
    - brootstrap 5y ago
      "Delete data" aka keeping all of the records around but changing the `is_Deleted?` column to True.
      - nl 5y ago
        GPDR penalties make this kind of misleading information pretty expensive, even for Google. Why would they do that when commercial intent is available from current behaviour so easily.
- rat87 5y ago
  It may be accurate but its not fair to assume and could be illegal (especially in the EU) If they don't want you to use services then they should explicitly disable them without tracking
  - bayindirh 5y ago
    You just have to anonymize at various levels after some time . You can keep the data forever if you wish (with anonymization of course).
nuclearnice3 5y ago
I agree with your conclusion that turning off location history will not protect you from inclusion in these warrants. Another quote from the article: > In 2018, the Associated Press reported that Google could still collect users’ locations even when their location history is “paused.”
- whoknowswhat11 5y ago
  If you have web and app activity off this is probably not true and the AP is lying. If you turn off location services on device, also probably not true and the AP is lying. If you run location services set to ON at device level and you have App Activity tracking set to ON then location will be tracked. Note that a fair number of users like these features. Google starts suggesting common destinations based on starting destination in Maps, Weather apps will remember the most recent location weather was checked from and much more.
  - nl 5y ago
    "Lying" is an extremely strong word here. Usually it's more like "the situation is more complex than this story says". > If you have web and app activity off this is probably not true and the AP is lying. However in this case this is absolutely true, and Google recently lost a lawsuit in Australia over it: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/australia-rules-google-misled-android-users-about-location-history/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/australia-rules-goog... As the article it self says, Google collects and stores location from a number of different sources, and this setting only affected one of them. There are other lawsuits ongoing: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/did-google-violate-users-privacy-when-it-secretly-kept-location-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/did-google-viola... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/08/unredacted-suit-shows-googles-own-engineers-confused-by-privacy-settings/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/08/unredacted-suit-...
  - jrochkind1 5y ago
    What is "App Activity tracking"? I know how to turn "Location Services" on and off. I know how to turn "Location History" on and off, as well as use Google's interface to delete my current history. I can't find anything on Android "App Activity tracking". But we're specifically talking about having "Location Services" on, but "Location History" off, that's what the article suggests is being recorded and available for warrant anyway. Since the posts at the top of the thread was suggesting deleting your "Location History" data -- but the article seems to suggest that if you still have "Location Services" on, it's still recording you and available for warrant. I don't think there is any reporting that standard Android/Google record you available for warrant if "Location Services" is turned off though. It definitely makes it more confusing that there are several different settings/services, each of which may be called slightly different names in slightly different places, and it's not always clear how they interact with regard to what information Google is actually recording. That is part of what's making this conversation confusing and I'm not sure we're all talking about the same things when we think we are. "App Activity tracking" is a term that's confusing me. Do you mean this as a synonym for "Location History" and/or "Location Services", or is this a separate thing?
whoknowswhat11 5y ago
You generally also need to turn off Web and App Activity tracking if you don't want tracking in apps. https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols?settings=app&pli=1 https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols?settings=app&... I used to have that off, but I actually found I liked getting the various suggestions (google figures out your commutes and common destinations based on starting points from what I could see - pretty convenient).

throwawayboise 5y ago

I keep location services off unless I'm actively using Google Maps for navigation (you don't need to turn it on to just look at a map of an area). I'd be more comfortable if my phone had a kill switch for GPS, but it doesn't.

sen 5y ago

It’s fair to assume that every single interaction you have with any major website is logged and stored, and disabling any “history” features etc is only for yourself, eg if you’re on a shared computer. There’s absolutely no way any of the FAANGs would let you use their service without harvesting your data. It’s their reason for existing and any other “features” (like search, maps, video) is just the carrot to get you there.

refulgentis 5y ago
This is both the best organic example of FUD I've seen since Slashdot articles on Microsoft during the Windows/Linux battles 20 years ago, and an excellent example of the black hole nihilism of 2010s HN on data - free, fantastic tools used by billions are reduced to a "carrot" for "data harvesting"
- bayindirh 5y ago
  Why a multi-billion tech conglomerate should code "free, fantastic tools used by billions", if it's not going to get anything from it? We openly trained/training image detection algorithms with re-captcha for example.
- Cipater 5y ago
  So why do they offer these services for free? Altruism?
whoknowswhat11 5y ago
Most sites do track forever. That said google at least and I think Microsoft anonymizes a bit after I think 18 months or so, and does the last bits of an IP address before anything is written to disk on the google analytics side.
nl 5y ago
Google deletes old data after 18 months for new users: https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/google-collects-a-frightening-amount-of-data-about-you-you-can-find-and-delete-it-now/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/google-colle... For users who signed up before that point you choose how long to keep it for.
- trasz 5y ago
  Or at least claims to do so. No reason not to trust them about it, right?
  - brootstrap 5y ago
    "Delete data" aka keeping all of the records around but changing the `is_Deleted?` column to True.
    - nl 5y ago
      GPDR penalties make this kind of misleading information pretty expensive, even for Google. Why would they do that when commercial intent is available from current behaviour so easily.
rat87 5y ago
It may be accurate but its not fair to assume and could be illegal (especially in the EU) If they don't want you to use services then they should explicitly disable them without tracking
- bayindirh 5y ago
  You just have to anonymize at various levels after some time . You can keep the data forever if you wish (with anonymization of course).

nuclearnice3 5y ago

I agree with your conclusion that turning off location history will not protect you from inclusion in these warrants. Another quote from the article: > In 2018, the Associated Press reported that Google could still collect users’ locations even when their location history is “paused.”

whoknowswhat11 5y ago
If you have web and app activity off this is probably not true and the AP is lying. If you turn off location services on device, also probably not true and the AP is lying. If you run location services set to ON at device level and you have App Activity tracking set to ON then location will be tracked. Note that a fair number of users like these features. Google starts suggesting common destinations based on starting destination in Maps, Weather apps will remember the most recent location weather was checked from and much more.
- nl 5y ago
  "Lying" is an extremely strong word here. Usually it's more like "the situation is more complex than this story says". > If you have web and app activity off this is probably not true and the AP is lying. However in this case this is absolutely true, and Google recently lost a lawsuit in Australia over it: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/australia-rules-google-misled-android-users-about-location-history/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/australia-rules-goog... As the article it self says, Google collects and stores location from a number of different sources, and this setting only affected one of them. There are other lawsuits ongoing: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/did-google-violate-users-privacy-when-it-secretly-kept-location-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/did-google-viola... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/08/unredacted-suit-shows-googles-own-engineers-confused-by-privacy-settings/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/08/unredacted-suit-...
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  What is "App Activity tracking"? I know how to turn "Location Services" on and off. I know how to turn "Location History" on and off, as well as use Google's interface to delete my current history. I can't find anything on Android "App Activity tracking". But we're specifically talking about having "Location Services" on, but "Location History" off, that's what the article suggests is being recorded and available for warrant anyway. Since the posts at the top of the thread was suggesting deleting your "Location History" data -- but the article seems to suggest that if you still have "Location Services" on, it's still recording you and available for warrant. I don't think there is any reporting that standard Android/Google record you available for warrant if "Location Services" is turned off though. It definitely makes it more confusing that there are several different settings/services, each of which may be called slightly different names in slightly different places, and it's not always clear how they interact with regard to what information Google is actually recording. That is part of what's making this conversation confusing and I'm not sure we're all talking about the same things when we think we are. "App Activity tracking" is a term that's confusing me. Do you mean this as a synonym for "Location History" and/or "Location Services", or is this a separate thing?

whoknowswhat11 5y ago

You generally also need to turn off Web and App Activity tracking if you don't want tracking in apps. https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols?settings=app&pli=1 https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols?settings=app&... I used to have that off, but I actually found I liked getting the various suggestions (google figures out your commutes and common destinations based on starting points from what I could see - pretty convenient).