3 ms·

Road deaths in the US are highest in Wyoming: https://twitter.com/Maps_US_EU/status/1429034525242318848 https://twitter.com/Maps_US_EU/status/14290345252423188

Road deaths in the US are highest in Wyoming: https://twitter.com/Maps_US_EU/status/1429034525242318848 https://twitter.com/Maps_US_EU/status/1429034525242318848

1123581321 5y ago
That map is per capita without accounting for rates of car ownership or miles driven per day per owner.
- Thorrez 5y ago
  Sure, but ramoz's argument seems to be that rural is safer than urban and that thus we should encourage more rural living instead of urban living. If we increase rural living, that will increase rates of car ownership and miles driven per day per owner. In trying to decide whether to promote rural or urban living, we should not adjust for dependent variables, we should only adjust for independent variables. I see 2 independent variables: land type (urban vs rural) and population size. Miles driven per day per owner and rates of car ownership are largely dependent on urban vs rural.
  - 1123581321 5y ago
    Yes, it would depend on, based on ramoz’ links and the link we are discussing, whether the urban victims would become safer as drivers or not. Non-driving risks of urban and rural life and potential lifestyle changes would also need to be factored in.
  - ramoz 5y ago
    That's not my argument. I grew up on rural roads, where there are obviously no side walks or pedestrian crossways. Heard of some (vehicle-vehicle) terrible accident every other month, and at one point(s) knew a person(s) who had passed. Including my own close calls, as a dumb teen in any car, and especially on a motorcycle. I do agree that Campers/RVs are a legitimate threat... these vehicles have terrible turn radius and blind spots, and are driven by average joes or joe-granpa. They find their way onto rural roads all the time. 3 close calls with these vehicles, 2/3 the driver never realized. Other than RVs, the greatest offender to motorcyclists were your average driver. It takes zero effort to not be aware of your surroundings vs music, phone, a race to not be late, etc. Riding in the city was always sketch, sometimes adrenaline-rush like experience. That's where the cars really seem like hotwheels. Its a lot easier to whip a sudan around then a large truck, but there are buses and those things seemed like they were floating on the city roads. I know of one pedestrian who was killed on rural roads. It was a drunk driver. The guy was also a known drunk, but he would bicycle 10 miles every day as part of some grocery shopping routine. I saw him for years going back and forth on my way to school. I have, and still do, drive trucks around. You're naturally forced into being on edge, and careful when driving. You do get used it, where your guard may go down or where you might want to crank a V8 out. Driving a truck in the city brings me back to the motorcycle days, back on edge with what seems like chaos all around. The last truck I drove in the city, a 2020 RAM, had sensors going off every 5seconds (road lines, bumper to bumper).

Road deaths in the US are highest in Wyoming: https://twitter.com/Maps_US_EU/status/1429034525242318848 https://twitter.com/Maps_US_EU/status/1429034525242318848

1123581321 5y ago

That map is per capita without accounting for rates of car ownership or miles driven per day per owner.

Thorrez 5y ago
Sure, but ramoz's argument seems to be that rural is safer than urban and that thus we should encourage more rural living instead of urban living. If we increase rural living, that will increase rates of car ownership and miles driven per day per owner. In trying to decide whether to promote rural or urban living, we should not adjust for dependent variables, we should only adjust for independent variables. I see 2 independent variables: land type (urban vs rural) and population size. Miles driven per day per owner and rates of car ownership are largely dependent on urban vs rural.
- 1123581321 5y ago
  Yes, it would depend on, based on ramoz’ links and the link we are discussing, whether the urban victims would become safer as drivers or not. Non-driving risks of urban and rural life and potential lifestyle changes would also need to be factored in.
- ramoz 5y ago
  That's not my argument. I grew up on rural roads, where there are obviously no side walks or pedestrian crossways. Heard of some (vehicle-vehicle) terrible accident every other month, and at one point(s) knew a person(s) who had passed. Including my own close calls, as a dumb teen in any car, and especially on a motorcycle. I do agree that Campers/RVs are a legitimate threat... these vehicles have terrible turn radius and blind spots, and are driven by average joes or joe-granpa. They find their way onto rural roads all the time. 3 close calls with these vehicles, 2/3 the driver never realized. Other than RVs, the greatest offender to motorcyclists were your average driver. It takes zero effort to not be aware of your surroundings vs music, phone, a race to not be late, etc. Riding in the city was always sketch, sometimes adrenaline-rush like experience. That's where the cars really seem like hotwheels. Its a lot easier to whip a sudan around then a large truck, but there are buses and those things seemed like they were floating on the city roads. I know of one pedestrian who was killed on rural roads. It was a drunk driver. The guy was also a known drunk, but he would bicycle 10 miles every day as part of some grocery shopping routine. I saw him for years going back and forth on my way to school. I have, and still do, drive trucks around. You're naturally forced into being on edge, and careful when driving. You do get used it, where your guard may go down or where you might want to crank a V8 out. Driving a truck in the city brings me back to the motorcycle days, back on edge with what seems like chaos all around. The last truck I drove in the city, a 2020 RAM, had sensors going off every 5seconds (road lines, bumper to bumper).