3 ms·

Lol. What the hell is this? What's the real motive of this org? My "no phd"/"intuition" (their words) questions why they're not addressing the fact that most d

by ramoz 5y ago

Lol. What the hell is this? What's the real motive of this org? My "no phd"/"intuition" (their words) questions why they're not addressing the fact that most deaths likely happen in large cities. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedestrians https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedes... https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/03/03/the-worst-us-cities-for-pedestrian-fatalities-infographic/?sh=5ac76b8bbf38 https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/03/03/the-wo... ...But, maybe only republican cities for this org? https://smartgrowthamerica.org/dangerous-by-design/ https://smartgrowthamerica.org/dangerous-by-design/

ramoz 5y ago
And where are tractor trailers and buses in their statistics? https://www.paulsoncoletti.com/bus-accident-statistics/ https://www.paulsoncoletti.com/bus-accident-statistics/
ramoz 5y ago
Florida's response: https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/local/volusia/2021/03/10/florida-dot-secretary-pedestrian-fatality-report-inaccurate/6938246002/ https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/local/volusia/...
tbihl 5y ago
The statistics you cited show more "urban" than "rural", yes, but nowhere do they explain the distinction. Both words are poor descriptors of areas with unlimited access, 45mph roads linking gas stations and big box stores. In all likelihood, they just slap one word or other on to each death based on the municipality it was in, which is worthless for most places in the US.
zip1234 5y ago
Road deaths in the US are highest in Wyoming: https://twitter.com/Maps_US_EU/status/1429034525242318848 https://twitter.com/Maps_US_EU/status/1429034525242318848
- 1123581321 5y ago
  That map is per capita without accounting for rates of car ownership or miles driven per day per owner.
  - Thorrez 5y ago
    Sure, but ramoz's argument seems to be that rural is safer than urban and that thus we should encourage more rural living instead of urban living. If we increase rural living, that will increase rates of car ownership and miles driven per day per owner. In trying to decide whether to promote rural or urban living, we should not adjust for dependent variables, we should only adjust for independent variables. I see 2 independent variables: land type (urban vs rural) and population size. Miles driven per day per owner and rates of car ownership are largely dependent on urban vs rural.
    - 1123581321 5y ago
      Yes, it would depend on, based on ramoz’ links and the link we are discussing, whether the urban victims would become safer as drivers or not. Non-driving risks of urban and rural life and potential lifestyle changes would also need to be factored in.
    - ramoz 5y ago
      That's not my argument. I grew up on rural roads, where there are obviously no side walks or pedestrian crossways. Heard of some (vehicle-vehicle) terrible accident every other month, and at one point(s) knew a person(s) who had passed. Including my own close calls, as a dumb teen in any car, and especially on a motorcycle. I do agree that Campers/RVs are a legitimate threat... these vehicles have terrible turn radius and blind spots, and are driven by average joes or joe-granpa. They find their way onto rural roads all the time. 3 close calls with these vehicles, 2/3 the driver never realized. Other than RVs, the greatest offender to motorcyclists were your average driver. It takes zero effort to not be aware of your surroundings vs music, phone, a race to not be late, etc. Riding in the city was always sketch, sometimes adrenaline-rush like experience. That's where the cars really seem like hotwheels. Its a lot easier to whip a sudan around then a large truck, but there are buses and those things seemed like they were floating on the city roads. I know of one pedestrian who was killed on rural roads. It was a drunk driver. The guy was also a known drunk, but he would bicycle 10 miles every day as part of some grocery shopping routine. I saw him for years going back and forth on my way to school. I have, and still do, drive trucks around. You're naturally forced into being on edge, and careful when driving. You do get used it, where your guard may go down or where you might want to crank a V8 out. Driving a truck in the city brings me back to the motorcycle days, back on edge with what seems like chaos all around. The last truck I drove in the city, a 2020 RAM, had sensors going off every 5seconds (road lines, bumper to bumper).
Thorrez 5y ago
That 2nd link seems to be number of fatalities, which is largely going to be proportional to population. To avoid looking at population and instead look at actual risk to a person, it should look at fatalities per capita. https://xkcd.com/2476/ https://xkcd.com/2476/
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>What's the real motive of this org? They list pronouns for everyone on their staff page. I think it's safe to say that whatever their motives are taking donations from conservatives and the transportation needs of middle America are not high on their priorities list.

by ramoz 5y ago

ramoz 5y ago

And where are tractor trailers and buses in their statistics? https://www.paulsoncoletti.com/bus-accident-statistics/ https://www.paulsoncoletti.com/bus-accident-statistics/

ramoz 5y ago

Florida's response: https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/local/volusia/2021/03/10/florida-dot-secretary-pedestrian-fatality-report-inaccurate/6938246002/ https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/local/volusia/...

tbihl 5y ago

The statistics you cited show more "urban" than "rural", yes, but nowhere do they explain the distinction. Both words are poor descriptors of areas with unlimited access, 45mph roads linking gas stations and big box stores. In all likelihood, they just slap one word or other on to each death based on the municipality it was in, which is worthless for most places in the US.

zip1234 5y ago

Road deaths in the US are highest in Wyoming: https://twitter.com/Maps_US_EU/status/1429034525242318848 https://twitter.com/Maps_US_EU/status/1429034525242318848

1123581321 5y ago
That map is per capita without accounting for rates of car ownership or miles driven per day per owner.
- Thorrez 5y ago
  Sure, but ramoz's argument seems to be that rural is safer than urban and that thus we should encourage more rural living instead of urban living. If we increase rural living, that will increase rates of car ownership and miles driven per day per owner. In trying to decide whether to promote rural or urban living, we should not adjust for dependent variables, we should only adjust for independent variables. I see 2 independent variables: land type (urban vs rural) and population size. Miles driven per day per owner and rates of car ownership are largely dependent on urban vs rural.
  - 1123581321 5y ago
    Yes, it would depend on, based on ramoz’ links and the link we are discussing, whether the urban victims would become safer as drivers or not. Non-driving risks of urban and rural life and potential lifestyle changes would also need to be factored in.
  - ramoz 5y ago
    That's not my argument. I grew up on rural roads, where there are obviously no side walks or pedestrian crossways. Heard of some (vehicle-vehicle) terrible accident every other month, and at one point(s) knew a person(s) who had passed. Including my own close calls, as a dumb teen in any car, and especially on a motorcycle. I do agree that Campers/RVs are a legitimate threat... these vehicles have terrible turn radius and blind spots, and are driven by average joes or joe-granpa. They find their way onto rural roads all the time. 3 close calls with these vehicles, 2/3 the driver never realized. Other than RVs, the greatest offender to motorcyclists were your average driver. It takes zero effort to not be aware of your surroundings vs music, phone, a race to not be late, etc. Riding in the city was always sketch, sometimes adrenaline-rush like experience. That's where the cars really seem like hotwheels. Its a lot easier to whip a sudan around then a large truck, but there are buses and those things seemed like they were floating on the city roads. I know of one pedestrian who was killed on rural roads. It was a drunk driver. The guy was also a known drunk, but he would bicycle 10 miles every day as part of some grocery shopping routine. I saw him for years going back and forth on my way to school. I have, and still do, drive trucks around. You're naturally forced into being on edge, and careful when driving. You do get used it, where your guard may go down or where you might want to crank a V8 out. Driving a truck in the city brings me back to the motorcycle days, back on edge with what seems like chaos all around. The last truck I drove in the city, a 2020 RAM, had sensors going off every 5seconds (road lines, bumper to bumper).

Thorrez 5y ago

That 2nd link seems to be number of fatalities, which is largely going to be proportional to population. To avoid looking at population and instead look at actual risk to a person, it should look at fatalities per capita. https://xkcd.com/2476/ https://xkcd.com/2476/

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

>What's the real motive of this org? They list pronouns for everyone on their staff page. I think it's safe to say that whatever their motives are taking donations from conservatives and the transportation needs of middle America are not high on their priorities list.