6 ms·

I don't know the legal implications, but if the duress password unlocks your device and simply deletes a directory or two, and the officer only asked you to unl

by yosito 5y ago

I don't know the legal implications, but if the duress password unlocks your device and simply deletes a directory or two, and the officer only asked you to unlock your device (without a warrant, by the way), how is that lying?

hirundo 5y ago
Even if it isn't lying, it's destruction of evidence. 18 U.S. Code 1519: > Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
- yosito 5y ago
  Would that apply to a warrantless search?
  - salawat 5y ago
    Yes. Sadly.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  > investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States I mean, you’re not seeking to obstruct anything other than a federal agent looking at your personal pictures, which they explicitly do not need to fulfill their duty. Now if you were removing evidence of your crimes. Anyway, I know it doesn’t work that way, but I think it should.
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  Not clear. You can argue you were afraid for your life or property in the case you did not expect the agent or courts to react reasonably to the now-concealed information. As well, they would need to prove you concealed or destroyed information. Similar case law exists in this context, but for actions like running from the police.
  - o-__-o 5y ago
    Do not do this unless you have strict guidance from a lawyer immediately before this happens. One small mistake could open you up to criminal liability and a world of hurt. Better to just plan ahead, bring a burner phone and show the photos to the agent when asked. IANAL but play one on tv
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      Are you insane? Going along with the courts is usually not in your best interests. Hiding the evidence and never going to trial certainly is. If we are talking about information that you definitely need to hide then the penalty for your obstruction of justice, whatever its form, will be a rounding error on your sentence. If it does not definitely need to be hidden then should they find out they are unlikely to charge you. An attorney will tell you what is legal. An excellent attorney will tell you what you can get away with. Strong language I know, but prisons are full of innocent people.
- GoblinSlayer 5y ago
  Does it prohibit encryption?
- brigandish 5y ago
  If they can prove it, you're in trouble. How are they going to prove it?
Spooky23 5y ago
Despite rumors to the contrary, the police aren’t stupid. They are trained to ask questions in ways that elicit a confession or falsehood. The simplest example is asking “Do you know why I pulled you over?”. Typically, people spontaneously confess to speeding, sometimes they break down and admit that someone is wrapped up in a rug in the trunk. The courts have consistently ruled that customs is different and you can be searched without a warrant. Don’t cross borders with contraband or evidence of criminal acts/dissident identity/your email correspondence with foreign agents/etc.
- isatty 5y ago
  Time to post this again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE (Don't talk to the police)
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    Customs is different in two crucial points: 1. The probability of your being in a stressful situation without the option to leave is high - you probably arrived via plane, so you can't simply go back, and you don't know the local laws well. 2. You usually know that a customs checkpoint is upcoming. So, in that case, it's far better to prepare (i.e. don't bring things you don't want searched/compromised) and cooperate.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - wildfire 5y ago
      Indeed. I was once "detained" whilst going from France to England while the customs official searched my bag. I complained to the UK immigration and the same customs officier called me back, searched my bag again, and said "unless you agree to withdraw your complaint, we are going to have to continue searching your bag until the train departs and you miss it". i.e. costing me about £150 in expenses. As expected, I withdraw it and went on my way. However I now make a point to record the name / number of custom officials I make a complaint to -- in case they turn out to be jerks like the UK one was.

by yosito 5y ago

hirundo 5y ago

Even if it isn't lying, it's destruction of evidence. 18 U.S. Code 1519: > Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

yosito 5y ago
Would that apply to a warrantless search?
- salawat 5y ago
  Yes. Sadly.
Aeolun 5y ago
> investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States I mean, you’re not seeking to obstruct anything other than a federal agent looking at your personal pictures, which they explicitly do not need to fulfill their duty. Now if you were removing evidence of your crimes. Anyway, I know it doesn’t work that way, but I think it should.
R0b0t1 5y ago
Not clear. You can argue you were afraid for your life or property in the case you did not expect the agent or courts to react reasonably to the now-concealed information. As well, they would need to prove you concealed or destroyed information. Similar case law exists in this context, but for actions like running from the police.
- o-__-o 5y ago
  Do not do this unless you have strict guidance from a lawyer immediately before this happens. One small mistake could open you up to criminal liability and a world of hurt. Better to just plan ahead, bring a burner phone and show the photos to the agent when asked. IANAL but play one on tv
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    Are you insane? Going along with the courts is usually not in your best interests. Hiding the evidence and never going to trial certainly is. If we are talking about information that you definitely need to hide then the penalty for your obstruction of justice, whatever its form, will be a rounding error on your sentence. If it does not definitely need to be hidden then should they find out they are unlikely to charge you. An attorney will tell you what is legal. An excellent attorney will tell you what you can get away with. Strong language I know, but prisons are full of innocent people.
GoblinSlayer 5y ago
Does it prohibit encryption?
brigandish 5y ago
If they can prove it, you're in trouble. How are they going to prove it?

Spooky23 5y ago

Despite rumors to the contrary, the police aren’t stupid. They are trained to ask questions in ways that elicit a confession or falsehood. The simplest example is asking “Do you know why I pulled you over?”. Typically, people spontaneously confess to speeding, sometimes they break down and admit that someone is wrapped up in a rug in the trunk. The courts have consistently ruled that customs is different and you can be searched without a warrant. Don’t cross borders with contraband or evidence of criminal acts/dissident identity/your email correspondence with foreign agents/etc.

isatty 5y ago
Time to post this again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE (Don't talk to the police)
- Sebb767 5y ago
  Customs is different in two crucial points: 1. The probability of your being in a stressful situation without the option to leave is high - you probably arrived via plane, so you can't simply go back, and you don't know the local laws well. 2. You usually know that a customs checkpoint is upcoming. So, in that case, it's far better to prepare (i.e. don't bring things you don't want searched/compromised) and cooperate.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - wildfire 5y ago
    Indeed. I was once "detained" whilst going from France to England while the customs official searched my bag. I complained to the UK immigration and the same customs officier called me back, searched my bag again, and said "unless you agree to withdraw your complaint, we are going to have to continue searching your bag until the train departs and you miss it". i.e. costing me about £150 in expenses. As expected, I withdraw it and went on my way. However I now make a point to record the name / number of custom officials I make a complaint to -- in case they turn out to be jerks like the UK one was.