20 ms·

On the link between great thinking and obsessive walking

502 points by prostoalex 5y ago

ammar_x 5y ago
Summary of the studies mentioned in the article: - An experiment to look at the effects of walking on creative thinking done by Marilyn Oppezzo, a Stanford University psychologist and her Ph.D. advisor: A group of Stanford students were asked to list as many creative uses for common objects as they could. A Frisbee, for example, can be used as a dog toy, but it can also be used as a hat, a plate, a bird bath, or a small shovel. The more novel uses a student listed, the higher the creativity score. Half the students sat for an hour before they were given their test. The others walked on a treadmill. The results were staggering. Creativity scores improved by 60 percent after a walk. - Michelle Voss, a University of Iowa psychology professor, studied the effects of walking on brain connectivity. She recruited 65 couch-potato volunteers aged 55 to 80 and imaged their brains in an MRI machine. For the next year, half of her volunteers took 40-minute walks three times a week. The other participants kept spending their days watching Golden Girls reruns and only participated in stretching exercises as a control. After a year, Voss put everyone back in the MRI machine and imaged their brains again. Not much had happened to the control group, but the walkers had significantly improved connectivity in regions of the brain understood to play an important role in our ability to think creatively. - Jennifer Weuve of Boston University’s School of Public Health studied the relationship between walking and cognitive decline in 18,766 women aged 70 to 81. Her team asked them to name as many animals as they could in one minute. Those who walked regularly recalled more penguins, pandas, and pangolins than the women who were less mobile. Weuve then read a series of numbers and asked the women to repeat them in reverse order. Those who walked regularly performed the task much better than those who didn’t. The author notes at the end that correlation does not equal causation. He says that perhaps the arrow of causality was pointing in the wrong direction. Maybe mentally active people were simply more likely to go for a walk. Researchers had to dive deeper.
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hoppyhoppy2 5y ago
http://archive.today/APjsG http://archive.today/APjsG https://web.archive.org/web/https://lithub.com/on-the-link-between-great-thinking-and-obsessive-walking/ https://web.archive.org/web/https://lithub.com/on-the-link-b...
readonthegoapp 5y ago
lithub is good
PicassoCTs 5y ago
My personal assumption was, that walking, always was hunting for us as a species. So to hunt for great ideas, one must connect the whole experience to what we did once to track down animals. Look at the ground, when thinking about facts, chains of evidence, the origin of your problems. Walk known routes, when traversing well known approaches, take unknown routes, go off-road, when you are stuck with the usual ways. Move your body, like you want your mind to move, but most important, do not self-observe while you do it. Forget about yourself, think only about the pray and the hunt. It may just be superstitious. But it is how my subconscious tries to explain away my endless pacing. Horrido.
- patentatt 5y ago
  I think it’s also just an activity that preoccupies a portion of your consciousness so that the subconscious can chime in. I get the same effect from mowing grass.
  - josephg 5y ago
    I get a similar effect from assembling lego sets. But I think walking works better - probably to do with the increased blood flow helping thoughts do their thing.
- forgotmypw17 5y ago
  Our minds are closely integrated with our bodies.
math-dev 5y ago
I agree 100% with this article - I do my best thinking when walking. It is the combination of light exercise that gets the blood moving (to the brain!), but not too strenuous that our minds must devote mental energy to the act of phsyical exercise, the oxygen from the fresh air, the feeling of _wandering_ and letting our minds wander. Sometimes I struggle with deep thinking at my desk - its too quiet / stable. A little bit of distraction helps. Not to say I don’t think while at my desk, I just think walking is a great compliment and in our sedentary lives, better to think on our feet and leave the desk to implementation / coding. I say this after two productive walks today :)
- Kaibeezy 5y ago
  We took in an older dog who had worked for 10 years at a hunting lodge. He’s incredibly well trained, doesn’t need a leash, doesn’t go wild or bark his head off under any provocation, and is happy going for long walks at a slow pace with random pauses. I’ve lost track number and quality of excellent solutions I have come up with on these walks, including three provisional patents filed and a major contract saved. He’s earned increasingly indulgent treats. Who rescued who?
  - math-dev 5y ago
    That’s a fantastic story to hear :)
  - shreyshnaccount 5y ago
    heart warming
- globular-toast 5y ago
  I enjoy walking very much and I can understand that it might increase overall health and therefore the quality of one's thoughts. But I never have good thoughts while walking. My brain seems to be occupied in the state of walking itself. To get into deep thought I need to be sitting down with no distractions.
nightsd01 5y ago
I have found that I have my best (and worst) ideas by changing mental states. For example I’m usually sober so when I’m intoxicated I usually have garbage ideas, but every now and then I think of something truly incredible/useful that I would never have had insight into sober. The same applies to being sleep deprived, it leads me into a different mental headspace where I can think differently than normal (though I try to avoid being sleep deprived cause it’s miserable)
- vvatermelone 5y ago
  There is something about sleep deprivation that makes me so vividly visually creative, things and image flow in my mind like they otherwise never do. Unfortunately I haven't found a way to trigger this any other way, so my only real creative moments tend to happen in the middle of the night where they aren't much use to anyone.
  - moehm 5y ago
    AFAIK sleep deprivation is discussed as a short term treatment of depression. I don't have any exclusive papers on hand (I'm not an expert), but if you are interested, please do your own research.
    - butwhywhyoh 5y ago
      Where is this discussed? I'm curious.
      - arc-in-space 5y ago
        For a start: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/sleep-is-the-mate-of-death https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/sleep-is-the-mate-of-d...
    - joegahona 5y ago
      I’ve heard Dr. John McDougall say this too — he recommends less sleep than most doctors for this reason. [1] https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2002nl/mar/sleep.htm https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2002nl/mar/sleep.htm
twobitshifter 5y ago
I don’t deny the link. I worked with a programmer/mathematician who would just start ambling about the office without any mission when deep in thought. I think that in his case the thinking actually drives the walking instead of vice versa. >Oppezzo designed an elegant experiment. A group of Stanford students were asked to list as many creative uses for common objects as they could. A Frisbee, for example, can be used as a dog toy, but it can also be used as a hat, a plate, a bird bath, or a small shovel. The more novel uses a student listed, the higher the creativity score. Half the students sat for an hour before they were given their test. The others walked on a treadmill. >The results were staggering. Creativity scores improved by 60 percent after a walk. With everything in the news about reproducibility and doctored data, this seems too staggering to believe. Has this study been tried again?
- zz865 5y ago
  I'm more interested that the walk was before the test. I thought the point was to think while you're walking.
  - irrational 5y ago
    Maybe they told them the question beforehand and then the test was writing down their answers.
- OskarS 5y ago
  > With everything in the news about reproducibility and doctored data, this seems too staggering to believe. Has this study been tried again? Yep, totally! I'm a firm believer in the power of walking to increase thoughts, but whenever I read about studies like this a big red beeping alarm goes of in my brain that goes "replication crisis! replication crisis!"
- thevagrant 5y ago
  There are other cases / studies that point to similar cognitive improvements through exercise. There was a case study I read in the book linked below and it indicated that test scores improved dramatically when they had kids exercise before learning. It states that the improvements occurred regardless of physical ability as long as participants aimed to achieve their personal best during exercise. I can't speak to the quality of the research but it is interesting and does not surprise me. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113514 https://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-...
YossarianFrPrez 5y ago
For more / additional information, check out Alex Soojung-Kim Pang's book Rest: Why You Get More Done When You Work Less. Like Jeremy DeSilva, the author of this Lithub article, Pang discusses Darwin and others who consistently walked to think. The short story is that Pang went and read through the diaries of many notable thinkers, artists and creative types going back to the 19th century. Walking is one tool in the tool box. There are others, including getting enough sleep and taking naps.
throwaway803453 5y ago
Somewhat related, about 10 years ago I was in a tragic situation where someone I loved would be murdered but I couldn't speak out because of possible retaliation against my family. I found myself compulsively walking randomly in the city every night for several nights. I would walk half way to a random destination only to change directions in 30 minutes convinced I was headed the wrong way forgetting the previous destination and repeatedly heading part way to successive random destinations. I did this night after night convinced there was a place I needed to go but in retrospect they were completely arbitrary and there was no purpose. I recently read the book Crime and Punishment and there is a scene a bit like this which suggests this may be in our DNA. To share further, I eventually spoke out (at some point you have to pick your poison) and the person did die suddenly and unexpectedly. The NYPD coroner eventually ruled out foul play, but the suspects the suspects left the country immediately after his death so it wouldn't have mattered. Had you plotted my path you would say that it was the walk of a person who is "lost", yet I knew the city perfectly. However it was accurate to say I was hopelessly lost. Changing subjects to lighten things up, I would assume there would be a metaphor for walking in way that parallels what your brain is doing when it is searching for a solution but I can't think of a word. Contemplative walks are certainly not erratic and discontinuous as described above. They are smooth and differentiable like a gradient descent.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  condolences for your loss, an oddly fascinating story I got into walking due to health reason, and there's a freedom seeking / search in it yes. The internal process of finding a path from idea to idea b is probably linked to the geometry of going from spot to spot. another thing about walking, is that it's free, and every fork in the road means you get to decide where you feel like you want to go, and that, to me, seems a deep need for our minds.
- gexla 5y ago
  I can lose my sense of location when walking in an area which I have driven around a lot but then try to walk. Same for an area which I try to walk at night when I have only been there previously during the day. Or the opposite.
nickjj 5y ago
I like walking and have walked around 2-5 miles a day for the last 7 or 8ish years. I also go without a phone and I go every day no matter what the weather is like in NY (hot summers and snowy winters). There's a bunch of benefits and I'll continue doing it because I really do enjoy it and I do think it helps get clarity but I wouldn't treat it like a magical activity that's going to make you successful on its own in whatever field you're working in. It's still very possible to feel the pressures of what a non-walker will experience such as procrastination and everything else we all know and experience. But with that said, I do highly recommend giving walking a shot. It's a really relaxing way to decompress.
wly_cdgr 5y ago
Everything in my life I've ever won an award for I thought of/through while walking
- Graffur 5y ago
  What are some of the things you have won awards for?
  - wly_cdgr 5y ago
    Nothing major, especially not by HN standards. Won best game design at one of the Global Game Jam sites a couple times & won a Ford smart mobility app design competition thing. Got a couple minor IndieCade type noms back in the day but didn't win
damontal 5y ago
Would listening to music or a podcast or an audiobook interfere with the generation of ideas while walking? I love running and walking but I always feel like I have to have something playing in my ear during.
- dasil003 5y ago
  I believe it does interfere. I started walking pretty obsessively during the pandemic as a way to get exercise that I used to get by bicycle commuting. Normally I would listen to podcasts during this time. However a few times when I went without anything in my ears I noticed that I was starting to do real work while walking, and coming up with great solutions to difficult problems. Now I limit podcasts just as I would with TV, video games or any other passive consumption. Nothing against consumption per se—a lot of ideas are seeded from outside—but in terms of creative work there's huge value to being left alone with ones thought. Anything mentally engaging will disrupt that.
  - em-bee 5y ago
    i have the reverse experience. thinking interferes with my ability to listen. sometimes i am distracted by some important topic, work or personal or other, sometimes the story i am listening to is not engaging enough. but then i spend most of the day working alone, so i have plenty of time to think. and for me the point of going for a walk and listen to a story is to stop thinking for some time and immerse myself into a different world.
  - SamPatt 5y ago
    I second this. I do long distance cycling and always had an audiobook going. One day my battery died and I had an hour and a half of silence. I found my thoughts were enjoyable. I now take some rides without any audio at all.
    - deleted 5y ago
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- ajuc 5y ago
jrootabega 5y ago
Just don't this as an excuse to have walking conversations in an open floor plan office.
jger15 5y ago
related: "Perhaps the reason walking helps us think is that we evolved as persistence hunters." https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1429535366705463298 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1429535366705463298
- throwaway803453 5y ago
  I wonder if you can discern what type of problem a person is working on based on their path. For example if you give a person two good solutions to a problem but they can only pick one, would they naturally pace back and forth ?
  - aaron5 5y ago
    what an interesting question! i'm trying to think of another example...
nanomonkey 5y ago
I'm always trying to figure out the ideal way of walking and inputting information into a computer. I purchased a twiddler 2 chording keyboard, but didn't enjoy the concept of figuring out and learning the ideal key mapping (the defaults are terrible). Talking to myself seems silly, but I'm starting to think it might be the ideal way of getting ideas down. Stopping and pulling out pen and paper was too disruptive. My ideal would be a walking stick with a few chording buttons that would key off different tasks, like start recording, or the next vocal word with be a voice command.
- dTal 5y ago
  I've recently had some success with a GPD Micro PC, which fits in a back or jacket pocket and has a very thumb-typeable keyboard. It does require you to look at the screen, of course.
  - nanomonkey 5y ago
    I've been using emacs through termux on my phone for this. It's surprisingly usable, but I'd rather have something that works seamlessly with walking. I'm thinking something like a Zoom H1N field recorder might work for just recording all of my thoughts, but I'd really like it to be automatically transcribed, if not an interactive REPL environment.
    - fsiefken 5y ago
      yes, but you could always let it automatically be transcribed later by some speech to text engine or write a blog post or digital garden plant later.
the_only_law 5y ago
I used to really enjoy walking when I lived somewhere with decent parks. I’d wait till early evening, when it wasn’t as hot and head down to one of the river walk near by and just keep walking and thinking about whatever. A little while after things got dark I would walk up into town and grab me something to eat. I really miss late night walks, but unfortunately where I live now there aren’t so many great options. A few nature trails that close early as hell and are probably moderately unsafe at that time. There are some of paths in the residential area I live in now, but they’re relatively short unless I want to link up to a main road (cars zipping past you at whatever speed does not do well for thinking) and I’m not gonna risk getting harassed because I’m out walking too late.
romwell 5y ago
Can we, for a second, remember that walking-makes-thinking-easier is a classic ADHD/ASD symptom? And that both ADHD and ASD have been linked to creative, deep thinking? Charles Darwin, the #1 example in this article, has been long suspected to have had Asperger's (which we classify as ASD today)[1]; and had exhibited symptoms of ADHD (one makes the other more likely)[2]. That link is only a surprise to neurotypicals. The answer is in plain sight: "On the link between great thinking and obsessive walking: it's ADHD/ASD!” EDIT: the word obsessive alone should give a clue were to look. While walking might make thinking easier for everyone, it might be outright necessary for people with conditions like ASD/ADHD. Please consider this before hitting that downvote button. Disclaimer: I'm a person with ASD, ADHD, and a PhD [1]https://web.archive.org/web/20090221125332/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/4680971/Charles-Darwin-had-autism-leading-psychiatrist-claims.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090221125332/http://www.telegr... [2]https://www.masters-in-special-education.com/lists/5-historical-figures-who-overcame-learning-disorders/ https://www.masters-in-special-education.com/lists/5-histori...
- emadabdulrahim 5y ago
  My first job out of college was in an office with a cubicle space floor. After a few weeks, I'd often pace around in a small space outside the main entrance when I'm thinking about a problem at work. People would ask if I'm ok. After ~3 months, I couldn't do any work in that office, so I quit. I don't know if I have ADHD or not, but whenever I'm stuck at a coding problem or any sort of a creative problem (I do product design work as well), I have to walk. Otherwise I feel claustrophobic or about to have a panic attack. At the very least, I feel very agitated and have shortness of breath. I'm coming to accept this about myself and after reading this article, I'll embrace walking as a mode for thinking and clearing my head more.
  - romwell 5y ago
    When I worked in an open floor layout, I used to set my working hours to 2PM-10PM, while most of my coworkers were on 9AM-5PM or so. This gave me an overlap of 3 hours to exchange information with my colleagues, and 5 hours to actually work when the office emptied out. If you are wondering whether you have ADHD or not, I made a website where symptoms are described from a first-person POV[1]. It's 200+ memes/comics I found on the Net, and a lot of text going in-depth about them. If you relate to a lot of these, treatment can improve your life. However, if you find that whatever makes your life easier - walking while thinking, fidgeting/doodling in meetings and phone calls, etc - just do it. It's your life. No need to play it on hard mode. [1] https://romankogan.net/adhd https://romankogan.net/adhd
lordnacho 5y ago
This is why I am looking for a simple AR headset: so I can look at code while walking through the woods in my area. Just a simple translucent IDE is all I need. I definitely feel that I am better at thinking when walking, but I also need to be looking at source code to get the details, otherwise I can only think about larger architecture. When is this coming?
- Sevii 5y ago
  The wolfram alpha founder does this with a laptop and custom harness.
  - TchoBeer 5y ago
    https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2019/02/seeking-the-productive-life-some-details-of-my-personal-infrastructure/ https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2019/02/seeking-the-prod... this article goes into some details about Stephen Wolfram's walking laptop setup.
  - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
    You made me feel old, Stephen Wolfram is now known for launching WolframAlpha rather than for creating Wolfram Mathematica. Truly a sign of the passing of time.
- georgewsinger 5y ago
  The application of VR/AR technology to creative office work is generally underrated (with too much emphasis on games/entertainment). SimulaVR is making a portable Linux VR headset which will have an "AR mode" (using cameras), scheduled for Kickstarter release early next year: www.simulavr.com We have plans to eventually release a proper AR headset also, though not on first iteration.
- mncharity 5y ago
  > When is this coming? Well, there's Nreal Light, with nice 1080p. But it may not fit your face well. I use it without the nose piece, and with the temples down around the middle of my ears. The recurring "we didn't design it for you" China HMD fit problem. I've no idea if the EU release was identical. And some complain of its weight. It's been variously available in Asia for years, more recently in the EU, but not yet in the US I believe (there was talk of maybe this year). In the US one has been able to ebay it from elsewhere, but US Customs duties have been highly varied and sometimes quite large. [1] sunset silliness: https://twitter.com/mncharity/status/1397553615372529668 https://twitter.com/mncharity/status/1397553615372529668
omarhaneef 5y ago
Lots of writers are also runners. But if you’re collecting walking-thinking connections I’ll add: Kahneman mentions somewhere that many of his ideas with Tversky emerged from long walks the two took together.
chasd00 5y ago
I have ADHD and without my medicine begin walking obsessively. In college, i would walk from one end of campus to the other over and over. When i lived in downtown Dallas i would walk from the West End to Deep Ellum (that's petty far on foot) and back over and over as well. It was good exercise i guess but took a lot of time/energy. Plus, on weekdays i would do it at night which is not the safest thing. Now on medication, I still walk but not near as much, maybe a mile a day. And, like others have said, i've solved many problems while walking so it's not a total waste of time.
- romwell 5y ago
  I've said in my other comment here that "walking-helps-thinking" is a well-known symptom of ADHD and ASD. Was surprised to see my comment initially downvoted a lot. For all who feel like they need walk to think about things, looking into ADHD/ASD could improve y'all's lives.
papito 5y ago
This was mentioned before, but the explanation is very simple - walking gets your brain flushed with blood, making you think clearer. That's all there is to it. To take it further, recent studies suggest that exercise more strenuous than just walking makes you better at dealing with uncomfortable decisions and situations (as exercise forces you to power through discomfort). https://www.thecut.com/2016/06/how-exercise-shapes-you-far-beyond-the-gym.html https://www.thecut.com/2016/06/how-exercise-shapes-you-far-b...
- rramadass 5y ago
  Good point. I think we need to be careful in recognizing that strenuous exercise does not enable us to make better considered decisions. It is gentle rhythmic exercise (eg. Walking, Tai-chi etc.) which does not tire out the body that is so important for brain health and better decision making.
  - sweuder 5y ago
    > I think we need to be careful in recognizing that strenuous exercise does not enable us to make better considered decisions. What? Is there any evidence to support this statement? I know I (personally, anecdotally) am a way calmer, more rational and reasonable decision maker after bouts of intense exercise. - Heavy lifting sessions, hard sports training, etc.
    - rramadass 5y ago
      Note that i used the phrase "better considered decisions" which is not the same as making a "quick decision". Decision making is improved during Walking while you need some variable time after Strenuous Exercise when your Arousal state has calmed down to make better decisions. The Inverted U Hypothesis (aka Yerkes-Dodson law - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerkes%E2%80%93Dodson_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerkes%E2%80%93Dodson_law) and https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/inverted-u.htm https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/inverted-u.htm was the first to posit the relationship between Arousal and Performance. However there are lots of nuances to this. The important one is Cue Utilization Theory (https://www.elitetrack.com/blogs-details-7362/ https://www.elitetrack.com/blogs-details-7362/ and https://psychology.iresearchnet.com/sports-psychology/perception-in-sport/%D1%81ue-utilization-theory/ https://psychology.iresearchnet.com/sports-psychology/percep...) which is relevant for decision making. Coming to Exercise Intensity and Decision Making you may find the following papers helpful for some empirical data. * Influence of exercise intensity on the decision-making performance of experienced and inexperienced soccer players - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19454768/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19454768/ and Fontana's thesis at https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/12206332.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/12206332.pdf * Effect of Exercise Intensity Level on Choice Reaction Time - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.2466/11.03.CP.4.3 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.2466/11.03.CP.4.3 PS: I have linked to two relevant books in another post of mine in this thread which you may find useful.
jcq3 5y ago
"Historically, however, walking has been the privilege of white men." Come on... Anyway, Nietzsche used to walk before writing like Darwin Long time ago I read that walking or taking a shower make your thinking more effective because it somehow enables automation mode and allow to be more focused
- klipt 5y ago
  Hunter gatherers (who mostly aren't white) probably do way more walking than most modern people.
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - WalterBright 5y ago
    The Australian indigenous peoples walked 9 miles a day (men) and 5 miles a day (women).
    - betwixthewires 5y ago
      So the men left the women behind? Or the women weren't allowed to walk as much? We need to close that mile gap!
      - rpmisms 5y ago
        Hunting vs. Gathering is what springs to mind. Also a theory as to why women have better color perception than men.
        goodpoint 5y ago
        This is wild speculation based to the myths around "hunter/gatherer" society.
        rpmisms 5y ago
AlexCoventry 5y ago
This appeals to Marilyn Oppezzo's and Daniel Schwartz's 2014 study on walking and creativity [1], based on an experiment with 48 subjects, a lot of subjective assessment, and a weird constraint which sounds like p-hacking ("The CRA task always followed the GAU task, because pilot work indicated that the CRA could be demoralizing, which interfered with performance on an immediately following GAU task.") Does anyone know whether it has been replicated? My money would be on replication failing. [1] https://aaalab.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Oppezzo2014GiveYourIdeasSomeLegs.pdf https://aaalab.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Oppez...
imposter 5y ago
This is why I built a walking desk. And funny thing is that, I have tested this that my dual n-back scores are marginally better when I do them while walking at the speeds of 1-1.5 km/h.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  I built one, too. The only problem is it never remains where I left it. One time the police brought it back, as it had wandered into somebody else's home. Another time, I found it lying in an alley in a pool of machine oil and stinking of WD-40. I'm going to have to stick one of those Apple tracker thingies on it.
mncharity 5y ago
In the before time, I'd optimize productivity with a mix of modalities. Some things were best done with technical pen on paper. Others as outline or text files. Others with assorted styles of coding. Whiteboards and discussion. And others with assorted styles of walking. The long slow ponder. The quick brief pace for a minor decision. The "what am I'm missing here?" distracted walking into walls.:) Matching modality to the moment seemed an art form. I've fond memories of one site, a few cubicles and tables in one corner of a big otherwise-empty floor of a office park building. A floor wrapped with full-height windows looking out on trees. One could variously loop, without bothering anyone, alternating walking and desk work.
irrational 5y ago
Now I’m feeling guilty for listening to audio books while walking instead of engaging in great thinking.
- em-bee 5y ago
  if i don't listen to something i'll just continue thinking about work or whatever other issues occupy my mind. i listen to fiction in particular to allow me to disengage from the worries of the day.
- frogulis 5y ago
  Guilt isn't necessary. After all, there's no better time to give it a try than the present! I find it productive even if I don't have a specific problem in mind. I find something almost indulgent about letting my mind wander over whatever work/personal/curiosity topics pop up.
- Baeocystin 5y ago
  I listen to lectures on things that have nothing to do with my day job, and I love every minute of it. Listening to something you find interesting while walking is a delightful match.
  - noisy_boy 5y ago
    Interesting indeed. Where can you find lectures that are far removed from, say, software engineering, but still provide solid new information without being either too superficial or too hard to grasp due to level of depth? I don't like to exercise but may be something like this would get me to go for walks.
    - Baeocystin 5y ago
      I listen to the Great Courses catalog via Audible. For example: I'm personally interested in archaeology & anthropology, and just finished this lecture series covering ancient mesoamerica: https://www.audible.com/pd/Maya-to-Aztec-Ancient-Mesoamerica-Revealed-Audiobook/B00TKIYO46 https://www.audible.com/pd/Maya-to-Aztec-Ancient-Mesoamerica... 48 lectures, ~23 hours. Loved it. Didn't spent a single minute the entire time thinking about anything even tangentially related to iptables, regular expressions, or why patch tuesday makes my eyelid twitch.
katzgrau 5y ago
In addition to walking, I've noticed that walking in a fasted state (usually early in the morning) really gets the mind turning. It does take a little while to get that perfect pace sometimes. Also: hounds (in my case, a beagle) are excellent long walk buddies. One more, going off the deep end: long thinking walks along trails in the woods (ideally a path that you know well so you don't have to think about it) can be a low-key spiritual experience.
b215826 5y ago
Yet another great mind (also an infamous introvert) who used to take long walks to refresh his mind was Paul Dirac. From his 1963 interview [1] with Thomas Kuhn, he describes how a decisive Sunday walk made him see the analogy between commutators in quantum mechanics and Poisson brackets in classical mechanics: > "I used to take long walks on Sundays and get away from the work altogether, and at the end of those walks I would perhaps go on with my work a bit in a refreshed state of mind. And after one of these Sunday walks it occurred to me that the commutator might be the analogue of the Poisson bracket, but I didn’t know very well what a Poisson bracket was then. I had just read a bit about it and forgotten most of what I had read, and I wanted to check up on this idea, but I couldn’t do it because I didn’t have any book at home which gave Poisson brackets and all the libraries were closed. So I just had to wait impatiently until Monday morning when the libraries were open to go and check up on what Poisson brackets really were. Then I found that they did fit, but I had one impatient night of waiting." [1] https://www.aip.org/history-programs/niels-bohr-library/oral-histories/4575-3 https://www.aip.org/history-programs/niels-bohr-library/oral...
- romwell 5y ago
  >also an infamous introvert ...and a person who likely had ASD[1][2][3][4] (aka Asperger's, being on the spectrum, etc). As did Charles Darwin (see my other comment in this thread). [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539373/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539373/ [2] https://www.quora.com/Did-Paul-Dirac-have-Asperger-syndrome https://www.quora.com/Did-Paul-Dirac-have-Asperger-syndrome [3]https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2009/jan/07/autism-test-genius-dirac https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2009/jan/07/autism-... [4]https://www.newstatesman.com/society/2010/11/dirac-autism-autistic https://www.newstatesman.com/society/2010/11/dirac-autism-au...
  - FreeFull 5y ago
    I am not on the autistic spectrum, but in my experience walking does help a lot with thinking things through. Part of it is certainly the lack of distractions, but there is something about the movement too. I'm not sure why you've brought autism up.
hydrox24 5y ago
I believe this is the paper referenced[0]. [0]: https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/xlm-a0036577.pdf https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/xlm-a0036577.pdf
labster 5y ago
Finally, proof that my dog is a genius! And not just the usual confirmation bias, because she really likes to walk.
betwixthewires 5y ago
I walk to think, very frequently. I talk to myself sometimes too, which can get weird if you get comfortable with it, as you'll sometimes do it in the presence of strangers and look crazy. Usually I pace, sometimes I stroll, always outside.
ilovefood 5y ago
I love walking and there are many parks next to where I live. However I am never able to fully enjoy it or indulge in any longer thinking activities as most of the time I'll be interrupted by either elderly people asking me "to go back where I came from" or random ID checks by undercover police. This happened a lot (5x times) over the last year when I decide to go and walk in a park, once even during an online call with my team. I live in a medium sized city in Germany and come from North Africa / France and it might show a bit too much. As a mitigation I once seriously considered changing how I look by for example dressing more like a dad or walking the neighbors dog as an alibi for being "normal". Maybe it would have interested the old ladies too, who knows. For the time being I'll keep at walking on streets or inside the city as it's less strange to see foreigners there. Can't wait to have my private forest :')
- marcusestes 5y ago
  That must absolutely suck. I’m sorry you have to deal with that.
- mateuszf 5y ago
  A workaround which could work for regular people not bothering you would be using headphones.
- switch007 5y ago
  That was heartbreaking to read. I’m sorry. It really surprised me when I read Germany. Shame on those people and the politicians who allow police to harass you. Shame on them!
  - vaylian 5y ago
    I was also very surprised when I read that it was in Germany. When it comes to police checks, it is important to know your rights: https://anwaltauskunft.de/magazin/gesellschaft/strafrecht-polizei/was-darf-die-polizei-bei-einer-personenkontrolle?full=1 https://anwaltauskunft.de/magazin/gesellschaft/strafrecht-po... The police is not allowed to discriminate against you just because you look foreign. Always demand that they tell you why you were stopped and that they show their badge. When it comes to racists, I personally would reply with irony and humor to make them look silly. But ignoring them can also be a viable strategy.
robertwt7 5y ago
Coming from Asia, especially tropical countries, walking is not very common during lunch time as you can get sweaty and disgusting coming back to work. After living in AU I'm surprised by how many of my co-workers do walking as part of their lunch break. Me on the other hand just stay at my computer, code, when I'm stuck I stop and think.. Maybe I should start walking rather than being a lazy ass
- justwalt 5y ago
  Walking does a surprising amount of good for fitness too, if you can do enough of it. When I worked in a grocery store I was in great shape.
- toosimplee 5y ago
  Have you tried walking in the morning or evening?
- pestatije 5y ago
  That's really surprising. In AU they'll leave their desks to go for lunch, yes. Go walking? Never seen that. The most they'll do is take the car to go to the gym.
meristohm 5y ago
To what degree is this benefit due to increased oxygen from breathing?
- rramadass 5y ago
  Two books that you may find helpful; * Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain. * Body by Science: A Research Based Program to Get the Results You Want in 12 Minutes a Week.
tomcooks 5y ago
As a person who walked 8/15 hours for two months straight I can relate to most of the statements written by the author. I believe that listening to music or other recordings takes away from the experience and the mental gains that walking provides, and this is why I skip the headphones during my adventures. I can attest that after 10 days of continuous autonomous movement the mind switches to a "primordial" state that, as a non academic, I believe can be very easily attributable to our nomadic, hunter-gatherer past. Attention gets sharper, acumen rings free, the range of senses expands, creative impulses flourish and it's easier to perform tasks in unexpectedly smart ways. I suggest those who would like to give it a try embark on a walking adventure that is at least two weeks long, either on pilgrimage routes (which offer great views and allow one to save money thanks to the hospitality options available) like the Camino de Santiago de Compostela / Fatima or long trails such as the Appalachian Trail.
- DynamicStatic 5y ago
  I mostly agree but I don't think avoiding to listen to stuff all the time is great either. I walked the pct for 5 months and listened to plenty of books and podcasts and they gave me many good ideas. I would often lose myself in the ideas and the podcasts would just ramble on in the background like white noise. My only regret is not noting not thoughts down.
- marttt 5y ago
  Did you experience mental breakdowns of any kind while you were walking?
  - tomcooks 5y ago
    None whatsoever aside from the usual post-adventure depression. I've met several persons lost on pilgrimage routes due to mental breakdowns. It's a know problem, people find happiness and an alternative life during a pilgrimage and keep on walking the routes back and forth through Europe until they run out of money and then become homeless. At the beginning of the French route towards Santiago de Compostela you might still find some mental health counseling offices.
vivferrari 5y ago
I was recently reading a book called Why we Swim where the author traces how the ape got back into the water. I think she rightly points out that Swimming is the best place to think because there is no way to be distracted by your phone or anything else for that matter. While I am also in a landlocked city with little access to pools but it would be interesting to get the point of view of swimmers.
- Tomte 5y ago
  Some "serious" swimmers wear sports watches that collect and show all kinds of information: lap times, strokes per lane etc. Plenty of opportunity to get distracted.
- dmos62 5y ago
  There's headphones for swimmers :)
- the-dude 5y ago
  Although I never carry a phone to begin with, as a previous non-swimmer I have started swimming in open water this year ( obviously I learnt to swim as a child ). The 'just you and the elements' part is real, in the open water you can't just stop and get out, you have got to complete what you started. The 'completeness' of the exercise is different than biking or walking : every joint and muscle seems to be involved. Back on land, the exhaustion is a different level than any other. Very deep breaths. When I get home, I am hungry as hell. Chronically under-weight, I seem to be gaining weight, very happy with that. The end of summer is approaching and the water is getting colder, I am exploring the indoor pools in my vicinity.
  - rytis 5y ago
    > The end of summer is approaching and the water is getting colder, I am exploring the indoor pools in my vicinity. I don't know where you are, but would wetsuit help to extend the time you can swim in the open waters? Obviously, I'm just assuming you're not doing that already... :)
maydup-nem 5y ago
> Historically, however, walking has been the privilege of white men. Black men were likely to be arrested, or worse. Women just out for a walk were harassed, or worse. Holy shit, so true, let me give you some internet points for being a good dog.
pr_nik2 5y ago
For a long time, the scholarly consensus was that you are born with a fixed number of neurons and then start losing them over your lifetime. Now there is good evidence of adult neurogenesis and it seems to be linked to endurance exercise, such as walking. These links can be a starting point for reading up on it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425252/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425252/ https://www.npr.org/2011/02/04/133498136/growing-a-bigger-brain-is-a-walk-in-the-park?t=1629705640657 https://www.npr.org/2011/02/04/133498136/growing-a-bigger-br...
- revolvingocelot 5y ago
  >For a long time, the scholarly consensus was that you are born with a fixed number of neurons and then start losing them over your lifetime It's worth pointing out that this is one of those old-school ridiculousnesses that many scientists believed in for much longer than the available evidence ought to have afforded. Much in the same way that North American hospitals used to refrain from analgesics when performing minor surgeries on very young babies, as they were assumed to not experience pain (?!), up until the late 80s, so too was the mounting evidence (Merzenich in the 80s, etc) of adult neurogenesis generally dismissed because reasons.
- wheelinsupial 5y ago
  Perhaps I’m misreading the first link you’ve provided, but doesn’t it say the benefit is only for women?
snakeboy 5y ago
During various confinements over the past year, I really enjoyed "illegal" late night walks when the streets and parks were completely dead. I found it the perfect ambiance to memorize poetry. Write them out long-hand and then carry nothing but the piece of paper for reference as needed. I don't have the patience for that in any other context. It's been a surprisingly enriching complement to my daily routine to recite them to myself later on my bike or with friends. I'd never appreciated the poetic form before Covid, and I'd seriously encourage other young folks to give it a shot, especially if your only poetic exposure was in high school.
dgb23 5y ago
Mevlana / Rumi, a persian religious scholar and poet in the 13th century was known to walk in circles around pillars of a mosque. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi
tekkk 5y ago
When I'm excited about an idea I have a compulsion to walk around in basically circles. I don't know exactly why but i assume when body enters such elavated alertness you have to let out steam somehow. Otherwise, i prefer running as it to me gives more bang for the buck. It's crucial if you have a sedentary job to elevate your blood-circulation to be able work productively through the day. Regular anaerobic exercise seems quite ideal for that.
- T-A 5y ago
  > When I'm excited about an idea I have a compulsion to walk around in basically circles https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Worry_Room?file=Worry_Room_The_Secret_of_Atlantis.jpg https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Worry_Room?file=Worry_Room_Th...
atoav 5y ago
Whenever I was learning for exams I would learn while randomly walking through environments. This helped me so much because I could connect the topics learned to the places I walked through, so afterwards I'd just have to walk that walk again to remember the topics in sequence. Walking is generally a good and inspiring pastime and I am glad I live in a part of the planets where my environment is both walkable and safe.
ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
I get up at 5-5:30AM, every day, and walk two miles. I put some effort into the walk. My usual speed is 16 minutes a mile. It used to be less than 15, but I’ve slowed a bit, as I’ve gotten older. Nothing spectacular, but it gets my heart rate up, and I usually break a bit of a sweat. I wouldn’t call myself a “great thinker,” but I find it useful to do these daily walks. The walk helps me to clear my mind, and organize the day’s tasks. I generally code every day, so I often use the time to work out a tactical plan for the day’s work. Sometimes, I work out a strategy for a longer term, but it’s usually just a daily plan. I often come up with big pivots, or solve pernicious bugs, during my walk. I work in a very dynamic fashion, with frequent direction changes, during a given project, and tend to be ambitious, in my goals, so I always have problems to solve. I frequently fix big bugs, right after getting home from a walk. I’ll walk up to the desk, log in, fire up Xcode, and apply the fix. After that, I’ll hit the shower. A standing desk helps a lot, here. Sometimes, I’m at the computer for an hour, before I take my shower. Yeah, I can be a bit obsessive… I tried running, a few years ago, but I tended to injure myself, which would result in gaps of up to a month at a go; so walking, it is. The last couple of days, I’ve had to stay in, because it’s been raining buckets in the morning. I also sometimes need to have breaks in the winter, because snow makes the route downright dangerous. Otherwise, it’s two miles, at 5:15-6AM, every day. Takes just about a half hour. I don headphones, and play rather mindless techno music (it’s usually the only time during the day, when I listen to music. I don’t listen while working). I also wear what I call my “clown suit,” or bright, reflective clothing, as it tends to be dark, and people drive like crap, in the morning. I suspect a lot of texting and emailing, while driving. Stop signs and lane markers are really just “suggestions.” I also think personal Discipline is critical to my work and lifestyle. I find that these walks help to reinforce that. I’ve been doing it for years, and have never really come to enjoy them. I feel that it’s good for me to do at least two things, every day, that I don’t want to do. I usually have that covered before 7.
Pandabob 5y ago
According to Apple Fitness for the past year I've walked on average 15.9 km per day (or 19715 steps). It's fair to say that I enjoy it immensely. The thought of walking being a privilege of certain a subset of the population hadn't even crossed my mind, but does make me a little sad.
zabzonk 5y ago
> 19th-century naturalist’s version of backpacking around Europe during a gap year I find it hard to imagine sailing around the somewhat quite unknown world on an 19thC sailing ship (rum, sodomy and the lash, not to mention scurvy, rats, cockroaches) was much like a millennial gap year.
globular-toast 5y ago
What in the hell is that video embedded on the page doing? I was reading, then noticed a woman's head moving which distracted me. The article was interesting enough that I was prepared to put in the effort to pause it myself, but when I mouse over the video pauses and presents a play button. When I mouse out it starts playing again.
d4rkp4ttern 5y ago
One phenomenon I noticed is that I spatially associate thoughts/ideas with where I was walking when those occurred. I read somewhere about the link between human brain structure and spatial recall or perception. I know this is vague but maybe someone knows a specific reference.

502 points by prostoalex 5y ago

Summary of the studies mentioned in the article: - An experiment to look at the effects of walking on creative thinking done by Marilyn Oppezzo, a Stanford University psychologist and her Ph.D. advisor: A group of Stanford students were asked to list as many creative uses for common objects as they could. A Frisbee, for example, can be used as a dog toy, but it can also be used as a hat, a plate, a bird bath, or a small shovel. The more novel uses a student listed, the higher the creativity score. Half the students sat for an hour before they were given their test. The others walked on a treadmill. The results were staggering. Creativity scores improved by 60 percent after a walk. - Michelle Voss, a University of Iowa psychology professor, studied the effects of walking on brain connectivity. She recruited 65 couch-potato volunteers aged 55 to 80 and imaged their brains in an MRI machine. For the next year, half of her volunteers took 40-minute walks three times a week. The other participants kept spending their days watching Golden Girls reruns and only participated in stretching exercises as a control. After a year, Voss put everyone back in the MRI machine and imaged their brains again. Not much had happened to the control group, but the walkers had significantly improved connectivity in regions of the brain understood to play an important role in our ability to think creatively. - Jennifer Weuve of Boston University’s School of Public Health studied the relationship between walking and cognitive decline in 18,766 women aged 70 to 81. Her team asked them to name as many animals as they could in one minute. Those who walked regularly recalled more penguins, pandas, and pangolins than the women who were less mobile. Weuve then read a series of numbers and asked the women to repeat them in reverse order. Those who walked regularly performed the task much better than those who didn’t. The author notes at the end that correlation does not equal causation. He says that perhaps the arrow of causality was pointing in the wrong direction. Maybe mentally active people were simply more likely to go for a walk. Researchers had to dive deeper.

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hoppyhoppy2 5y ago

http://archive.today/APjsG http://archive.today/APjsG https://web.archive.org/web/https://lithub.com/on-the-link-between-great-thinking-and-obsessive-walking/ https://web.archive.org/web/https://lithub.com/on-the-link-b...

readonthegoapp 5y ago

lithub is good

PicassoCTs 5y ago

My personal assumption was, that walking, always was hunting for us as a species. So to hunt for great ideas, one must connect the whole experience to what we did once to track down animals. Look at the ground, when thinking about facts, chains of evidence, the origin of your problems. Walk known routes, when traversing well known approaches, take unknown routes, go off-road, when you are stuck with the usual ways. Move your body, like you want your mind to move, but most important, do not self-observe while you do it. Forget about yourself, think only about the pray and the hunt. It may just be superstitious. But it is how my subconscious tries to explain away my endless pacing. Horrido.

patentatt 5y ago
I think it’s also just an activity that preoccupies a portion of your consciousness so that the subconscious can chime in. I get the same effect from mowing grass.
- josephg 5y ago
  I get a similar effect from assembling lego sets. But I think walking works better - probably to do with the increased blood flow helping thoughts do their thing.
forgotmypw17 5y ago
Our minds are closely integrated with our bodies.

math-dev 5y ago

I agree 100% with this article - I do my best thinking when walking. It is the combination of light exercise that gets the blood moving (to the brain!), but not too strenuous that our minds must devote mental energy to the act of phsyical exercise, the oxygen from the fresh air, the feeling of _wandering_ and letting our minds wander. Sometimes I struggle with deep thinking at my desk - its too quiet / stable. A little bit of distraction helps. Not to say I don’t think while at my desk, I just think walking is a great compliment and in our sedentary lives, better to think on our feet and leave the desk to implementation / coding. I say this after two productive walks today :)

Kaibeezy 5y ago
We took in an older dog who had worked for 10 years at a hunting lodge. He’s incredibly well trained, doesn’t need a leash, doesn’t go wild or bark his head off under any provocation, and is happy going for long walks at a slow pace with random pauses. I’ve lost track number and quality of excellent solutions I have come up with on these walks, including three provisional patents filed and a major contract saved. He’s earned increasingly indulgent treats. Who rescued who?
- math-dev 5y ago
  That’s a fantastic story to hear :)
- shreyshnaccount 5y ago
  heart warming
globular-toast 5y ago
I enjoy walking very much and I can understand that it might increase overall health and therefore the quality of one's thoughts. But I never have good thoughts while walking. My brain seems to be occupied in the state of walking itself. To get into deep thought I need to be sitting down with no distractions.

nightsd01 5y ago

I have found that I have my best (and worst) ideas by changing mental states. For example I’m usually sober so when I’m intoxicated I usually have garbage ideas, but every now and then I think of something truly incredible/useful that I would never have had insight into sober. The same applies to being sleep deprived, it leads me into a different mental headspace where I can think differently than normal (though I try to avoid being sleep deprived cause it’s miserable)

vvatermelone 5y ago
There is something about sleep deprivation that makes me so vividly visually creative, things and image flow in my mind like they otherwise never do. Unfortunately I haven't found a way to trigger this any other way, so my only real creative moments tend to happen in the middle of the night where they aren't much use to anyone.
- moehm 5y ago
  AFAIK sleep deprivation is discussed as a short term treatment of depression. I don't have any exclusive papers on hand (I'm not an expert), but if you are interested, please do your own research.
  - butwhywhyoh 5y ago
    Where is this discussed? I'm curious.
    - arc-in-space 5y ago
      For a start: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/sleep-is-the-mate-of-death https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/sleep-is-the-mate-of-d...
  - joegahona 5y ago
    I’ve heard Dr. John McDougall say this too — he recommends less sleep than most doctors for this reason. [1] https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2002nl/mar/sleep.htm https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2002nl/mar/sleep.htm

twobitshifter 5y ago

I don’t deny the link. I worked with a programmer/mathematician who would just start ambling about the office without any mission when deep in thought. I think that in his case the thinking actually drives the walking instead of vice versa. >Oppezzo designed an elegant experiment. A group of Stanford students were asked to list as many creative uses for common objects as they could. A Frisbee, for example, can be used as a dog toy, but it can also be used as a hat, a plate, a bird bath, or a small shovel. The more novel uses a student listed, the higher the creativity score. Half the students sat for an hour before they were given their test. The others walked on a treadmill. >The results were staggering. Creativity scores improved by 60 percent after a walk. With everything in the news about reproducibility and doctored data, this seems too staggering to believe. Has this study been tried again?

zz865 5y ago
I'm more interested that the walk was before the test. I thought the point was to think while you're walking.
- irrational 5y ago
  Maybe they told them the question beforehand and then the test was writing down their answers.
OskarS 5y ago
> With everything in the news about reproducibility and doctored data, this seems too staggering to believe. Has this study been tried again? Yep, totally! I'm a firm believer in the power of walking to increase thoughts, but whenever I read about studies like this a big red beeping alarm goes of in my brain that goes "replication crisis! replication crisis!"
thevagrant 5y ago
There are other cases / studies that point to similar cognitive improvements through exercise. There was a case study I read in the book linked below and it indicated that test scores improved dramatically when they had kids exercise before learning. It states that the improvements occurred regardless of physical ability as long as participants aimed to achieve their personal best during exercise. I can't speak to the quality of the research but it is interesting and does not surprise me. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113514 https://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-...

YossarianFrPrez 5y ago

For more / additional information, check out Alex Soojung-Kim Pang's book Rest: Why You Get More Done When You Work Less. Like Jeremy DeSilva, the author of this Lithub article, Pang discusses Darwin and others who consistently walked to think. The short story is that Pang went and read through the diaries of many notable thinkers, artists and creative types going back to the 19th century. Walking is one tool in the tool box. There are others, including getting enough sleep and taking naps.

throwaway803453 5y ago

Somewhat related, about 10 years ago I was in a tragic situation where someone I loved would be murdered but I couldn't speak out because of possible retaliation against my family. I found myself compulsively walking randomly in the city every night for several nights. I would walk half way to a random destination only to change directions in 30 minutes convinced I was headed the wrong way forgetting the previous destination and repeatedly heading part way to successive random destinations. I did this night after night convinced there was a place I needed to go but in retrospect they were completely arbitrary and there was no purpose. I recently read the book Crime and Punishment and there is a scene a bit like this which suggests this may be in our DNA. To share further, I eventually spoke out (at some point you have to pick your poison) and the person did die suddenly and unexpectedly. The NYPD coroner eventually ruled out foul play, but the suspects the suspects left the country immediately after his death so it wouldn't have mattered. Had you plotted my path you would say that it was the walk of a person who is "lost", yet I knew the city perfectly. However it was accurate to say I was hopelessly lost. Changing subjects to lighten things up, I would assume there would be a metaphor for walking in way that parallels what your brain is doing when it is searching for a solution but I can't think of a word. Contemplative walks are certainly not erratic and discontinuous as described above. They are smooth and differentiable like a gradient descent.

agumonkey 5y ago
condolences for your loss, an oddly fascinating story I got into walking due to health reason, and there's a freedom seeking / search in it yes. The internal process of finding a path from idea to idea b is probably linked to the geometry of going from spot to spot. another thing about walking, is that it's free, and every fork in the road means you get to decide where you feel like you want to go, and that, to me, seems a deep need for our minds.
gexla 5y ago
I can lose my sense of location when walking in an area which I have driven around a lot but then try to walk. Same for an area which I try to walk at night when I have only been there previously during the day. Or the opposite.

nickjj 5y ago

I like walking and have walked around 2-5 miles a day for the last 7 or 8ish years. I also go without a phone and I go every day no matter what the weather is like in NY (hot summers and snowy winters). There's a bunch of benefits and I'll continue doing it because I really do enjoy it and I do think it helps get clarity but I wouldn't treat it like a magical activity that's going to make you successful on its own in whatever field you're working in. It's still very possible to feel the pressures of what a non-walker will experience such as procrastination and everything else we all know and experience. But with that said, I do highly recommend giving walking a shot. It's a really relaxing way to decompress.

wly_cdgr 5y ago

Everything in my life I've ever won an award for I thought of/through while walking

Graffur 5y ago
What are some of the things you have won awards for?
- wly_cdgr 5y ago
  Nothing major, especially not by HN standards. Won best game design at one of the Global Game Jam sites a couple times & won a Ford smart mobility app design competition thing. Got a couple minor IndieCade type noms back in the day but didn't win

damontal 5y ago

Would listening to music or a podcast or an audiobook interfere with the generation of ideas while walking? I love running and walking but I always feel like I have to have something playing in my ear during.

dasil003 5y ago
I believe it does interfere. I started walking pretty obsessively during the pandemic as a way to get exercise that I used to get by bicycle commuting. Normally I would listen to podcasts during this time. However a few times when I went without anything in my ears I noticed that I was starting to do real work while walking, and coming up with great solutions to difficult problems. Now I limit podcasts just as I would with TV, video games or any other passive consumption. Nothing against consumption per se—a lot of ideas are seeded from outside—but in terms of creative work there's huge value to being left alone with ones thought. Anything mentally engaging will disrupt that.
- em-bee 5y ago
  i have the reverse experience. thinking interferes with my ability to listen. sometimes i am distracted by some important topic, work or personal or other, sometimes the story i am listening to is not engaging enough. but then i spend most of the day working alone, so i have plenty of time to think. and for me the point of going for a walk and listen to a story is to stop thinking for some time and immerse myself into a different world.
- SamPatt 5y ago
  I second this. I do long distance cycling and always had an audiobook going. One day my battery died and I had an hour and a half of silence. I found my thoughts were enjoyable. I now take some rides without any audio at all.
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ajuc 5y ago

jrootabega 5y ago

Just don't this as an excuse to have walking conversations in an open floor plan office.

jger15 5y ago

related: "Perhaps the reason walking helps us think is that we evolved as persistence hunters." https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1429535366705463298 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1429535366705463298

throwaway803453 5y ago
I wonder if you can discern what type of problem a person is working on based on their path. For example if you give a person two good solutions to a problem but they can only pick one, would they naturally pace back and forth ?
- aaron5 5y ago
  what an interesting question! i'm trying to think of another example...

nanomonkey 5y ago

I'm always trying to figure out the ideal way of walking and inputting information into a computer. I purchased a twiddler 2 chording keyboard, but didn't enjoy the concept of figuring out and learning the ideal key mapping (the defaults are terrible). Talking to myself seems silly, but I'm starting to think it might be the ideal way of getting ideas down. Stopping and pulling out pen and paper was too disruptive. My ideal would be a walking stick with a few chording buttons that would key off different tasks, like start recording, or the next vocal word with be a voice command.

dTal 5y ago
I've recently had some success with a GPD Micro PC, which fits in a back or jacket pocket and has a very thumb-typeable keyboard. It does require you to look at the screen, of course.
- nanomonkey 5y ago
  I've been using emacs through termux on my phone for this. It's surprisingly usable, but I'd rather have something that works seamlessly with walking. I'm thinking something like a Zoom H1N field recorder might work for just recording all of my thoughts, but I'd really like it to be automatically transcribed, if not an interactive REPL environment.
  - fsiefken 5y ago
    yes, but you could always let it automatically be transcribed later by some speech to text engine or write a blog post or digital garden plant later.

the_only_law 5y ago

I used to really enjoy walking when I lived somewhere with decent parks. I’d wait till early evening, when it wasn’t as hot and head down to one of the river walk near by and just keep walking and thinking about whatever. A little while after things got dark I would walk up into town and grab me something to eat. I really miss late night walks, but unfortunately where I live now there aren’t so many great options. A few nature trails that close early as hell and are probably moderately unsafe at that time. There are some of paths in the residential area I live in now, but they’re relatively short unless I want to link up to a main road (cars zipping past you at whatever speed does not do well for thinking) and I’m not gonna risk getting harassed because I’m out walking too late.

romwell 5y ago

Can we, for a second, remember that walking-makes-thinking-easier is a classic ADHD/ASD symptom? And that both ADHD and ASD have been linked to creative, deep thinking? Charles Darwin, the #1 example in this article, has been long suspected to have had Asperger's (which we classify as ASD today)[1]; and had exhibited symptoms of ADHD (one makes the other more likely)[2]. That link is only a surprise to neurotypicals. The answer is in plain sight: "On the link between great thinking and obsessive walking: it's ADHD/ASD!” EDIT: the word obsessive alone should give a clue were to look. While walking might make thinking easier for everyone, it might be outright necessary for people with conditions like ASD/ADHD. Please consider this before hitting that downvote button. Disclaimer: I'm a person with ASD, ADHD, and a PhD [1]https://web.archive.org/web/20090221125332/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/4680971/Charles-Darwin-had-autism-leading-psychiatrist-claims.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090221125332/http://www.telegr... [2]https://www.masters-in-special-education.com/lists/5-historical-figures-who-overcame-learning-disorders/ https://www.masters-in-special-education.com/lists/5-histori...

emadabdulrahim 5y ago
My first job out of college was in an office with a cubicle space floor. After a few weeks, I'd often pace around in a small space outside the main entrance when I'm thinking about a problem at work. People would ask if I'm ok. After ~3 months, I couldn't do any work in that office, so I quit. I don't know if I have ADHD or not, but whenever I'm stuck at a coding problem or any sort of a creative problem (I do product design work as well), I have to walk. Otherwise I feel claustrophobic or about to have a panic attack. At the very least, I feel very agitated and have shortness of breath. I'm coming to accept this about myself and after reading this article, I'll embrace walking as a mode for thinking and clearing my head more.
- romwell 5y ago
  When I worked in an open floor layout, I used to set my working hours to 2PM-10PM, while most of my coworkers were on 9AM-5PM or so. This gave me an overlap of 3 hours to exchange information with my colleagues, and 5 hours to actually work when the office emptied out. If you are wondering whether you have ADHD or not, I made a website where symptoms are described from a first-person POV[1]. It's 200+ memes/comics I found on the Net, and a lot of text going in-depth about them. If you relate to a lot of these, treatment can improve your life. However, if you find that whatever makes your life easier - walking while thinking, fidgeting/doodling in meetings and phone calls, etc - just do it. It's your life. No need to play it on hard mode. [1] https://romankogan.net/adhd https://romankogan.net/adhd

lordnacho 5y ago

This is why I am looking for a simple AR headset: so I can look at code while walking through the woods in my area. Just a simple translucent IDE is all I need. I definitely feel that I am better at thinking when walking, but I also need to be looking at source code to get the details, otherwise I can only think about larger architecture. When is this coming?

Sevii 5y ago
The wolfram alpha founder does this with a laptop and custom harness.
- TchoBeer 5y ago
  https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2019/02/seeking-the-productive-life-some-details-of-my-personal-infrastructure/ https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2019/02/seeking-the-prod... this article goes into some details about Stephen Wolfram's walking laptop setup.
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  You made me feel old, Stephen Wolfram is now known for launching WolframAlpha rather than for creating Wolfram Mathematica. Truly a sign of the passing of time.
georgewsinger 5y ago
The application of VR/AR technology to creative office work is generally underrated (with too much emphasis on games/entertainment). SimulaVR is making a portable Linux VR headset which will have an "AR mode" (using cameras), scheduled for Kickstarter release early next year: www.simulavr.com We have plans to eventually release a proper AR headset also, though not on first iteration.
mncharity 5y ago
> When is this coming? Well, there's Nreal Light, with nice 1080p. But it may not fit your face well. I use it without the nose piece, and with the temples down around the middle of my ears. The recurring "we didn't design it for you" China HMD fit problem. I've no idea if the EU release was identical. And some complain of its weight. It's been variously available in Asia for years, more recently in the EU, but not yet in the US I believe (there was talk of maybe this year). In the US one has been able to ebay it from elsewhere, but US Customs duties have been highly varied and sometimes quite large. [1] sunset silliness: https://twitter.com/mncharity/status/1397553615372529668 https://twitter.com/mncharity/status/1397553615372529668

omarhaneef 5y ago

Lots of writers are also runners. But if you’re collecting walking-thinking connections I’ll add: Kahneman mentions somewhere that many of his ideas with Tversky emerged from long walks the two took together.

chasd00 5y ago

I have ADHD and without my medicine begin walking obsessively. In college, i would walk from one end of campus to the other over and over. When i lived in downtown Dallas i would walk from the West End to Deep Ellum (that's petty far on foot) and back over and over as well. It was good exercise i guess but took a lot of time/energy. Plus, on weekdays i would do it at night which is not the safest thing. Now on medication, I still walk but not near as much, maybe a mile a day. And, like others have said, i've solved many problems while walking so it's not a total waste of time.

romwell 5y ago
I've said in my other comment here that "walking-helps-thinking" is a well-known symptom of ADHD and ASD. Was surprised to see my comment initially downvoted a lot. For all who feel like they need walk to think about things, looking into ADHD/ASD could improve y'all's lives.

papito 5y ago

This was mentioned before, but the explanation is very simple - walking gets your brain flushed with blood, making you think clearer. That's all there is to it. To take it further, recent studies suggest that exercise more strenuous than just walking makes you better at dealing with uncomfortable decisions and situations (as exercise forces you to power through discomfort). https://www.thecut.com/2016/06/how-exercise-shapes-you-far-beyond-the-gym.html https://www.thecut.com/2016/06/how-exercise-shapes-you-far-b...

rramadass 5y ago
Good point. I think we need to be careful in recognizing that strenuous exercise does not enable us to make better considered decisions. It is gentle rhythmic exercise (eg. Walking, Tai-chi etc.) which does not tire out the body that is so important for brain health and better decision making.
- sweuder 5y ago
  > I think we need to be careful in recognizing that strenuous exercise does not enable us to make better considered decisions. What? Is there any evidence to support this statement? I know I (personally, anecdotally) am a way calmer, more rational and reasonable decision maker after bouts of intense exercise. - Heavy lifting sessions, hard sports training, etc.
  - rramadass 5y ago
    Note that i used the phrase "better considered decisions" which is not the same as making a "quick decision". Decision making is improved during Walking while you need some variable time after Strenuous Exercise when your Arousal state has calmed down to make better decisions. The Inverted U Hypothesis (aka Yerkes-Dodson law - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerkes%E2%80%93Dodson_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerkes%E2%80%93Dodson_law) and https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/inverted-u.htm https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/inverted-u.htm was the first to posit the relationship between Arousal and Performance. However there are lots of nuances to this. The important one is Cue Utilization Theory (https://www.elitetrack.com/blogs-details-7362/ https://www.elitetrack.com/blogs-details-7362/ and https://psychology.iresearchnet.com/sports-psychology/perception-in-sport/%D1%81ue-utilization-theory/ https://psychology.iresearchnet.com/sports-psychology/percep...) which is relevant for decision making. Coming to Exercise Intensity and Decision Making you may find the following papers helpful for some empirical data. * Influence of exercise intensity on the decision-making performance of experienced and inexperienced soccer players - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19454768/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19454768/ and Fontana's thesis at https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/12206332.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/12206332.pdf * Effect of Exercise Intensity Level on Choice Reaction Time - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.2466/11.03.CP.4.3 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.2466/11.03.CP.4.3 PS: I have linked to two relevant books in another post of mine in this thread which you may find useful.

jcq3 5y ago

"Historically, however, walking has been the privilege of white men." Come on... Anyway, Nietzsche used to walk before writing like Darwin Long time ago I read that walking or taking a shower make your thinking more effective because it somehow enables automation mode and allow to be more focused

klipt 5y ago
Hunter gatherers (who mostly aren't white) probably do way more walking than most modern people.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- WalterBright 5y ago
  The Australian indigenous peoples walked 9 miles a day (men) and 5 miles a day (women).
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    So the men left the women behind? Or the women weren't allowed to walk as much? We need to close that mile gap!
    - rpmisms 5y ago
      Hunting vs. Gathering is what springs to mind. Also a theory as to why women have better color perception than men.
      - goodpoint 5y ago
        This is wild speculation based to the myths around "hunter/gatherer" society.
        rpmisms 5y ago

AlexCoventry 5y ago

This appeals to Marilyn Oppezzo's and Daniel Schwartz's 2014 study on walking and creativity [1], based on an experiment with 48 subjects, a lot of subjective assessment, and a weird constraint which sounds like p-hacking ("The CRA task always followed the GAU task, because pilot work indicated that the CRA could be demoralizing, which interfered with performance on an immediately following GAU task.") Does anyone know whether it has been replicated? My money would be on replication failing. [1] https://aaalab.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Oppezzo2014GiveYourIdeasSomeLegs.pdf https://aaalab.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Oppez...

imposter 5y ago

This is why I built a walking desk. And funny thing is that, I have tested this that my dual n-back scores are marginally better when I do them while walking at the speeds of 1-1.5 km/h.

WalterBright 5y ago
I built one, too. The only problem is it never remains where I left it. One time the police brought it back, as it had wandered into somebody else's home. Another time, I found it lying in an alley in a pool of machine oil and stinking of WD-40. I'm going to have to stick one of those Apple tracker thingies on it.

mncharity 5y ago

In the before time, I'd optimize productivity with a mix of modalities. Some things were best done with technical pen on paper. Others as outline or text files. Others with assorted styles of coding. Whiteboards and discussion. And others with assorted styles of walking. The long slow ponder. The quick brief pace for a minor decision. The "what am I'm missing here?" distracted walking into walls.:) Matching modality to the moment seemed an art form. I've fond memories of one site, a few cubicles and tables in one corner of a big otherwise-empty floor of a office park building. A floor wrapped with full-height windows looking out on trees. One could variously loop, without bothering anyone, alternating walking and desk work.

irrational 5y ago

Now I’m feeling guilty for listening to audio books while walking instead of engaging in great thinking.

em-bee 5y ago
if i don't listen to something i'll just continue thinking about work or whatever other issues occupy my mind. i listen to fiction in particular to allow me to disengage from the worries of the day.
frogulis 5y ago
Guilt isn't necessary. After all, there's no better time to give it a try than the present! I find it productive even if I don't have a specific problem in mind. I find something almost indulgent about letting my mind wander over whatever work/personal/curiosity topics pop up.
Baeocystin 5y ago
I listen to lectures on things that have nothing to do with my day job, and I love every minute of it. Listening to something you find interesting while walking is a delightful match.
- noisy_boy 5y ago
  Interesting indeed. Where can you find lectures that are far removed from, say, software engineering, but still provide solid new information without being either too superficial or too hard to grasp due to level of depth? I don't like to exercise but may be something like this would get me to go for walks.
  - Baeocystin 5y ago
    I listen to the Great Courses catalog via Audible. For example: I'm personally interested in archaeology & anthropology, and just finished this lecture series covering ancient mesoamerica: https://www.audible.com/pd/Maya-to-Aztec-Ancient-Mesoamerica-Revealed-Audiobook/B00TKIYO46 https://www.audible.com/pd/Maya-to-Aztec-Ancient-Mesoamerica... 48 lectures, ~23 hours. Loved it. Didn't spent a single minute the entire time thinking about anything even tangentially related to iptables, regular expressions, or why patch tuesday makes my eyelid twitch.

katzgrau 5y ago

In addition to walking, I've noticed that walking in a fasted state (usually early in the morning) really gets the mind turning. It does take a little while to get that perfect pace sometimes. Also: hounds (in my case, a beagle) are excellent long walk buddies. One more, going off the deep end: long thinking walks along trails in the woods (ideally a path that you know well so you don't have to think about it) can be a low-key spiritual experience.

b215826 5y ago

Yet another great mind (also an infamous introvert) who used to take long walks to refresh his mind was Paul Dirac. From his 1963 interview [1] with Thomas Kuhn, he describes how a decisive Sunday walk made him see the analogy between commutators in quantum mechanics and Poisson brackets in classical mechanics: > "I used to take long walks on Sundays and get away from the work altogether, and at the end of those walks I would perhaps go on with my work a bit in a refreshed state of mind. And after one of these Sunday walks it occurred to me that the commutator might be the analogue of the Poisson bracket, but I didn’t know very well what a Poisson bracket was then. I had just read a bit about it and forgotten most of what I had read, and I wanted to check up on this idea, but I couldn’t do it because I didn’t have any book at home which gave Poisson brackets and all the libraries were closed. So I just had to wait impatiently until Monday morning when the libraries were open to go and check up on what Poisson brackets really were. Then I found that they did fit, but I had one impatient night of waiting." [1] https://www.aip.org/history-programs/niels-bohr-library/oral-histories/4575-3 https://www.aip.org/history-programs/niels-bohr-library/oral...

romwell 5y ago
>also an infamous introvert ...and a person who likely had ASD[1][2][3][4] (aka Asperger's, being on the spectrum, etc). As did Charles Darwin (see my other comment in this thread). [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539373/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539373/ [2] https://www.quora.com/Did-Paul-Dirac-have-Asperger-syndrome https://www.quora.com/Did-Paul-Dirac-have-Asperger-syndrome [3]https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2009/jan/07/autism-test-genius-dirac https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2009/jan/07/autism-... [4]https://www.newstatesman.com/society/2010/11/dirac-autism-autistic https://www.newstatesman.com/society/2010/11/dirac-autism-au...
- FreeFull 5y ago
  I am not on the autistic spectrum, but in my experience walking does help a lot with thinking things through. Part of it is certainly the lack of distractions, but there is something about the movement too. I'm not sure why you've brought autism up.

hydrox24 5y ago

I believe this is the paper referenced[0]. [0]: https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/xlm-a0036577.pdf https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/xlm-a0036577.pdf

labster 5y ago

Finally, proof that my dog is a genius! And not just the usual confirmation bias, because she really likes to walk.

betwixthewires 5y ago

I walk to think, very frequently. I talk to myself sometimes too, which can get weird if you get comfortable with it, as you'll sometimes do it in the presence of strangers and look crazy. Usually I pace, sometimes I stroll, always outside.

ilovefood 5y ago

I love walking and there are many parks next to where I live. However I am never able to fully enjoy it or indulge in any longer thinking activities as most of the time I'll be interrupted by either elderly people asking me "to go back where I came from" or random ID checks by undercover police. This happened a lot (5x times) over the last year when I decide to go and walk in a park, once even during an online call with my team. I live in a medium sized city in Germany and come from North Africa / France and it might show a bit too much. As a mitigation I once seriously considered changing how I look by for example dressing more like a dad or walking the neighbors dog as an alibi for being "normal". Maybe it would have interested the old ladies too, who knows. For the time being I'll keep at walking on streets or inside the city as it's less strange to see foreigners there. Can't wait to have my private forest :')

marcusestes 5y ago
That must absolutely suck. I’m sorry you have to deal with that.
mateuszf 5y ago
A workaround which could work for regular people not bothering you would be using headphones.
switch007 5y ago
That was heartbreaking to read. I’m sorry. It really surprised me when I read Germany. Shame on those people and the politicians who allow police to harass you. Shame on them!
- vaylian 5y ago
  I was also very surprised when I read that it was in Germany. When it comes to police checks, it is important to know your rights: https://anwaltauskunft.de/magazin/gesellschaft/strafrecht-polizei/was-darf-die-polizei-bei-einer-personenkontrolle?full=1 https://anwaltauskunft.de/magazin/gesellschaft/strafrecht-po... The police is not allowed to discriminate against you just because you look foreign. Always demand that they tell you why you were stopped and that they show their badge. When it comes to racists, I personally would reply with irony and humor to make them look silly. But ignoring them can also be a viable strategy.

robertwt7 5y ago

Coming from Asia, especially tropical countries, walking is not very common during lunch time as you can get sweaty and disgusting coming back to work. After living in AU I'm surprised by how many of my co-workers do walking as part of their lunch break. Me on the other hand just stay at my computer, code, when I'm stuck I stop and think.. Maybe I should start walking rather than being a lazy ass

justwalt 5y ago
Walking does a surprising amount of good for fitness too, if you can do enough of it. When I worked in a grocery store I was in great shape.
toosimplee 5y ago
Have you tried walking in the morning or evening?
pestatije 5y ago
That's really surprising. In AU they'll leave their desks to go for lunch, yes. Go walking? Never seen that. The most they'll do is take the car to go to the gym.

meristohm 5y ago

To what degree is this benefit due to increased oxygen from breathing?

rramadass 5y ago
Two books that you may find helpful; * Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain. * Body by Science: A Research Based Program to Get the Results You Want in 12 Minutes a Week.

tomcooks 5y ago

As a person who walked 8/15 hours for two months straight I can relate to most of the statements written by the author. I believe that listening to music or other recordings takes away from the experience and the mental gains that walking provides, and this is why I skip the headphones during my adventures. I can attest that after 10 days of continuous autonomous movement the mind switches to a "primordial" state that, as a non academic, I believe can be very easily attributable to our nomadic, hunter-gatherer past. Attention gets sharper, acumen rings free, the range of senses expands, creative impulses flourish and it's easier to perform tasks in unexpectedly smart ways. I suggest those who would like to give it a try embark on a walking adventure that is at least two weeks long, either on pilgrimage routes (which offer great views and allow one to save money thanks to the hospitality options available) like the Camino de Santiago de Compostela / Fatima or long trails such as the Appalachian Trail.

DynamicStatic 5y ago
I mostly agree but I don't think avoiding to listen to stuff all the time is great either. I walked the pct for 5 months and listened to plenty of books and podcasts and they gave me many good ideas. I would often lose myself in the ideas and the podcasts would just ramble on in the background like white noise. My only regret is not noting not thoughts down.
marttt 5y ago
Did you experience mental breakdowns of any kind while you were walking?
- tomcooks 5y ago
  None whatsoever aside from the usual post-adventure depression. I've met several persons lost on pilgrimage routes due to mental breakdowns. It's a know problem, people find happiness and an alternative life during a pilgrimage and keep on walking the routes back and forth through Europe until they run out of money and then become homeless. At the beginning of the French route towards Santiago de Compostela you might still find some mental health counseling offices.

vivferrari 5y ago

I was recently reading a book called Why we Swim where the author traces how the ape got back into the water. I think she rightly points out that Swimming is the best place to think because there is no way to be distracted by your phone or anything else for that matter. While I am also in a landlocked city with little access to pools but it would be interesting to get the point of view of swimmers.

Tomte 5y ago
Some "serious" swimmers wear sports watches that collect and show all kinds of information: lap times, strokes per lane etc. Plenty of opportunity to get distracted.
dmos62 5y ago
There's headphones for swimmers :)
the-dude 5y ago
Although I never carry a phone to begin with, as a previous non-swimmer I have started swimming in open water this year ( obviously I learnt to swim as a child ). The 'just you and the elements' part is real, in the open water you can't just stop and get out, you have got to complete what you started. The 'completeness' of the exercise is different than biking or walking : every joint and muscle seems to be involved. Back on land, the exhaustion is a different level than any other. Very deep breaths. When I get home, I am hungry as hell. Chronically under-weight, I seem to be gaining weight, very happy with that. The end of summer is approaching and the water is getting colder, I am exploring the indoor pools in my vicinity.
- rytis 5y ago
  > The end of summer is approaching and the water is getting colder, I am exploring the indoor pools in my vicinity. I don't know where you are, but would wetsuit help to extend the time you can swim in the open waters? Obviously, I'm just assuming you're not doing that already... :)

maydup-nem 5y ago

> Historically, however, walking has been the privilege of white men. Black men were likely to be arrested, or worse. Women just out for a walk were harassed, or worse. Holy shit, so true, let me give you some internet points for being a good dog.

pr_nik2 5y ago

For a long time, the scholarly consensus was that you are born with a fixed number of neurons and then start losing them over your lifetime. Now there is good evidence of adult neurogenesis and it seems to be linked to endurance exercise, such as walking. These links can be a starting point for reading up on it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425252/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425252/ https://www.npr.org/2011/02/04/133498136/growing-a-bigger-brain-is-a-walk-in-the-park?t=1629705640657 https://www.npr.org/2011/02/04/133498136/growing-a-bigger-br...

revolvingocelot 5y ago
>For a long time, the scholarly consensus was that you are born with a fixed number of neurons and then start losing them over your lifetime It's worth pointing out that this is one of those old-school ridiculousnesses that many scientists believed in for much longer than the available evidence ought to have afforded. Much in the same way that North American hospitals used to refrain from analgesics when performing minor surgeries on very young babies, as they were assumed to not experience pain (?!), up until the late 80s, so too was the mounting evidence (Merzenich in the 80s, etc) of adult neurogenesis generally dismissed because reasons.
wheelinsupial 5y ago
Perhaps I’m misreading the first link you’ve provided, but doesn’t it say the benefit is only for women?

snakeboy 5y ago

During various confinements over the past year, I really enjoyed "illegal" late night walks when the streets and parks were completely dead. I found it the perfect ambiance to memorize poetry. Write them out long-hand and then carry nothing but the piece of paper for reference as needed. I don't have the patience for that in any other context. It's been a surprisingly enriching complement to my daily routine to recite them to myself later on my bike or with friends. I'd never appreciated the poetic form before Covid, and I'd seriously encourage other young folks to give it a shot, especially if your only poetic exposure was in high school.

dgb23 5y ago

Mevlana / Rumi, a persian religious scholar and poet in the 13th century was known to walk in circles around pillars of a mosque. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi

tekkk 5y ago

When I'm excited about an idea I have a compulsion to walk around in basically circles. I don't know exactly why but i assume when body enters such elavated alertness you have to let out steam somehow. Otherwise, i prefer running as it to me gives more bang for the buck. It's crucial if you have a sedentary job to elevate your blood-circulation to be able work productively through the day. Regular anaerobic exercise seems quite ideal for that.

T-A 5y ago
> When I'm excited about an idea I have a compulsion to walk around in basically circles https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Worry_Room?file=Worry_Room_The_Secret_of_Atlantis.jpg https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Worry_Room?file=Worry_Room_Th...

atoav 5y ago

Whenever I was learning for exams I would learn while randomly walking through environments. This helped me so much because I could connect the topics learned to the places I walked through, so afterwards I'd just have to walk that walk again to remember the topics in sequence. Walking is generally a good and inspiring pastime and I am glad I live in a part of the planets where my environment is both walkable and safe.

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago

I get up at 5-5:30AM, every day, and walk two miles. I put some effort into the walk. My usual speed is 16 minutes a mile. It used to be less than 15, but I’ve slowed a bit, as I’ve gotten older. Nothing spectacular, but it gets my heart rate up, and I usually break a bit of a sweat. I wouldn’t call myself a “great thinker,” but I find it useful to do these daily walks. The walk helps me to clear my mind, and organize the day’s tasks. I generally code every day, so I often use the time to work out a tactical plan for the day’s work. Sometimes, I work out a strategy for a longer term, but it’s usually just a daily plan. I often come up with big pivots, or solve pernicious bugs, during my walk. I work in a very dynamic fashion, with frequent direction changes, during a given project, and tend to be ambitious, in my goals, so I always have problems to solve. I frequently fix big bugs, right after getting home from a walk. I’ll walk up to the desk, log in, fire up Xcode, and apply the fix. After that, I’ll hit the shower. A standing desk helps a lot, here. Sometimes, I’m at the computer for an hour, before I take my shower. Yeah, I can be a bit obsessive… I tried running, a few years ago, but I tended to injure myself, which would result in gaps of up to a month at a go; so walking, it is. The last couple of days, I’ve had to stay in, because it’s been raining buckets in the morning. I also sometimes need to have breaks in the winter, because snow makes the route downright dangerous. Otherwise, it’s two miles, at 5:15-6AM, every day. Takes just about a half hour. I don headphones, and play rather mindless techno music (it’s usually the only time during the day, when I listen to music. I don’t listen while working). I also wear what I call my “clown suit,” or bright, reflective clothing, as it tends to be dark, and people drive like crap, in the morning. I suspect a lot of texting and emailing, while driving. Stop signs and lane markers are really just “suggestions.” I also think personal Discipline is critical to my work and lifestyle. I find that these walks help to reinforce that. I’ve been doing it for years, and have never really come to enjoy them. I feel that it’s good for me to do at least two things, every day, that I don’t want to do. I usually have that covered before 7.

Pandabob 5y ago

According to Apple Fitness for the past year I've walked on average 15.9 km per day (or 19715 steps). It's fair to say that I enjoy it immensely. The thought of walking being a privilege of certain a subset of the population hadn't even crossed my mind, but does make me a little sad.

zabzonk 5y ago

> 19th-century naturalist’s version of backpacking around Europe during a gap year I find it hard to imagine sailing around the somewhat quite unknown world on an 19thC sailing ship (rum, sodomy and the lash, not to mention scurvy, rats, cockroaches) was much like a millennial gap year.

globular-toast 5y ago

What in the hell is that video embedded on the page doing? I was reading, then noticed a woman's head moving which distracted me. The article was interesting enough that I was prepared to put in the effort to pause it myself, but when I mouse over the video pauses and presents a play button. When I mouse out it starts playing again.

d4rkp4ttern 5y ago

One phenomenon I noticed is that I spatially associate thoughts/ideas with where I was walking when those occurred. I read somewhere about the link between human brain structure and spatial recall or perception. I know this is vague but maybe someone knows a specific reference.