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It's good that every service has separate credentials. For a counterexample, consider Apple and how they try to restrict you to a single Apple ID. They want ev

by yarcob 5y ago

It's good that every service has separate credentials. For a counterexample, consider Apple and how they try to restrict you to a single Apple ID. They want everything to be tied to a single person. Every service you use is tied to your Apple ID. It just doesn't match the way that people use computers. For example, I get my computer games and business software billed to the same card, and there's no easy way to change that. Somehow the app store "helpfully" installed a baby monitor app that I use at home on my work computer. We set up a Mac as build server in the office. It's shared by multiple people. I need to log in with my personal credentials to download software from the Mac App store. My girlfriend bought an iPad for the kids to watch TV. It's shared by a couple of people. She had to log in with her Apple ID to set it up, and now her personal iMessages and emails are on it. It's stupid. Some of these problems can be fixed, but it's really annoying.

e40 5y ago
My son wanted to login to the desktop AirBnB because I wanted a PDF of a receipt, which he couldn't get on mobile. He logged in using his Google account on his phone. On his Windows and Mac laptops, with Chrome and Firefox he got errors. He just couldn't login. We cleared cookies, everything. Rebooted. Nothing would fix it. Of course, to start a chat with aBnB you need to login... So, I agree. Every service should have separate credentials.
wisty 5y ago
Or see people who "spammed" emotes into a Youtube livestream getting caught by spam detection and locked out of gmail.
- teddyh 5y ago
  And, IIRC, they only did it because the YouTube streamer (i.e. the channel host) asked them to do it!
amelius 5y ago
Yes, Apple ID is like a cookie that you can't delete. My solution: use Linux :)
- mastazi 5y ago
  Are you using a Linux phone by any chance? Could you share some details? I've been thinking about it but I didn't pull the trigger because the alternatives I've been looking at all have shortcomings. Curious to hear more.
danpalmer 5y ago
How does Apple restrict you to a single Apple ID? I use my personal Apple ID for personal things, my work one for work things, and as an admin of our Apple Business Manager account I can create new Apple IDs for anyone in the company as necessary. To my knowledge Apple doesn't even have a policy of requiring one account, I've certainly been told to set up separate accounts by Apple support teams. Facebook does have this problem, they have a policy that you must not have separate IDs, they police this heavily with a lot of automated bans, and they also require a Facebook account to do development with Facebook.
- noahtallen 5y ago
  It’s more like a single device is limited to a single Apple ID. (At least the mobile ones.) that gets tricky when it comes to, e.g. sharing an iPad with your kids. On computers you can work around it by having different profiles different people use.
- yarcob 5y ago
  Do you use multiple Apple IDs on one device? I tried doing that for some time, and it caused a lot of issues. Maybe it works if you have separate devices for work and for home use, but I use my Macs for both business and home use.
  - d0lphin 5y ago
    I do! I have a separate Apple ID for services like iMessage than I do for the App Store. I can't log into more Apple IDs than that in settings though.
Aaargh20318 5y ago
> My girlfriend bought an iPad for the kids to watch TV. It's shared by a couple of people. She had to log in with her Apple ID to set it up, and now her personal iMessages and emails are on it. It's stupid. Apple considers iPads (and iPhones/Macs) as personal devices. You aren't expected to share an iPad, you're expected to buy an iPad for each user.
- dukeyukey 5y ago
  Then Apple is either wrong, or being actively malicious with its products in order to sell more of them.
  - Spivak 5y ago
    I mean it’s not really malicious to design a single-user system. At best it’s passively malicious. Sure, you can always share your personal pizza but you have to deal with the consequences that it was sized for one person and you both might be hungry after. Are you upset about the fact that you can’t have multiple isolated user-accounts on an iPhone?
    - ctvo 5y ago
      > Are you upset about the fact that you can’t have multiple isolated user-accounts on an iPhone? The iPhone was mentioned once, to connect it’s not possible on either iPhone or iPad. This is about the iPad, a completely different class of device, where it makes sense it would be shared, at least within a family, and has nothing to do with personal pizzas. It'a small point here, but the way you moved the goal post so your analogy applied more really bothered me.
      - Spivak 5y ago
        “I want device to be shareable” is very different than “Apple is malicious for not making device shareable.” I’m not trying to move the goalposts because I think of my iPad as just a larger iPhone. To me they’re the same. It’s such an odd dynamic because I see so many families sharing an iPad which isn’t multi-user but then treating laptops as personal.
mbesto 5y ago
> I need to log in with my personal credentials to download software from the Mac App store. Do you though? Why not just setup a "apps@<yourbiz>.com" and create a new account? > and now her personal iMessages and emails are on it. It's stupid. So just turn these services off? They aren't mandatory.
- saba2008 5y ago
  Registering AppleID involves phone number checking. In some countries getting one without exposing personal information is not trivial.
  - donmcronald 5y ago
    Lots of services won’t allow duplicates. For example, you can’t use the same number for account recovery on two different Microsoft accounts. Zoho won’t let you register more than one account with the same number. Etc.. I silo my profiles. I have 4 of them. It’s really hard to do. Everyone encourages you to put all your stuff into a single profile. It’s awful for work life balance and security, but it benefits big tech companies, so that’s why it’s like that. Do you want separate profiles for your password manager? Pay twice. Do you want separate personal and work windows installs (dual boot)? Pay twice. Etc..
    - selfhoster11 5y ago
      Free, reputable password managers are available if you want to separate two different databases. As for work and personal Windows, it's likely that your company covers the licensing cost of their copy.
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
Terretta 5y ago
I feel like several of your problems where you “have to” do this or that, you’re missing the value of iCloud “child” accounts that can be enabled to use the parent account’s things they didn’t pay for. Especially for the literal kids, use a child account. But also use a child account for the work machine so it can use your apps but isn’t your personal messages and photos.
- yarcob 5y ago
  Child accounts don't fix the problem that it is a shared device. I've never considered creating a fake child account for business use, but I have tried to create some fake Apple IDs for shared devices, so I didn't need to use personal credentials. Unfortunately Apple has blocked these fake accounts from accessing some services, so I had to fall back to using personal accounts.
vageli 5y ago
> It's shared by multiple people. I need to log in with my personal credentials to download software from the Mac App store. I thought this was solved with managed Apple IDs? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210737 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210737
kelnos 5y ago
This is one of the things Google actually got right with Android. I can add as many Google accounts to my phone as I want. Anything that needs to be associated with a Google account lets me choose which account to use, and I can selectively decide what gets (and does not get) synced from each account (mail, contacts, photos, store purchases, etc.). Many apps will even let me switch between accounts easily and seamlessly.

by yarcob 5y ago

e40 5y ago

My son wanted to login to the desktop AirBnB because I wanted a PDF of a receipt, which he couldn't get on mobile. He logged in using his Google account on his phone. On his Windows and Mac laptops, with Chrome and Firefox he got errors. He just couldn't login. We cleared cookies, everything. Rebooted. Nothing would fix it. Of course, to start a chat with aBnB you need to login... So, I agree. Every service should have separate credentials.

wisty 5y ago

Or see people who "spammed" emotes into a Youtube livestream getting caught by spam detection and locked out of gmail.

teddyh 5y ago
And, IIRC, they only did it because the YouTube streamer (i.e. the channel host) asked them to do it!

amelius 5y ago

Yes, Apple ID is like a cookie that you can't delete. My solution: use Linux :)

mastazi 5y ago
Are you using a Linux phone by any chance? Could you share some details? I've been thinking about it but I didn't pull the trigger because the alternatives I've been looking at all have shortcomings. Curious to hear more.

danpalmer 5y ago

How does Apple restrict you to a single Apple ID? I use my personal Apple ID for personal things, my work one for work things, and as an admin of our Apple Business Manager account I can create new Apple IDs for anyone in the company as necessary. To my knowledge Apple doesn't even have a policy of requiring one account, I've certainly been told to set up separate accounts by Apple support teams. Facebook does have this problem, they have a policy that you must not have separate IDs, they police this heavily with a lot of automated bans, and they also require a Facebook account to do development with Facebook.

noahtallen 5y ago
It’s more like a single device is limited to a single Apple ID. (At least the mobile ones.) that gets tricky when it comes to, e.g. sharing an iPad with your kids. On computers you can work around it by having different profiles different people use.
yarcob 5y ago
Do you use multiple Apple IDs on one device? I tried doing that for some time, and it caused a lot of issues. Maybe it works if you have separate devices for work and for home use, but I use my Macs for both business and home use.
- d0lphin 5y ago
  I do! I have a separate Apple ID for services like iMessage than I do for the App Store. I can't log into more Apple IDs than that in settings though.

Aaargh20318 5y ago

> My girlfriend bought an iPad for the kids to watch TV. It's shared by a couple of people. She had to log in with her Apple ID to set it up, and now her personal iMessages and emails are on it. It's stupid. Apple considers iPads (and iPhones/Macs) as personal devices. You aren't expected to share an iPad, you're expected to buy an iPad for each user.

dukeyukey 5y ago
Then Apple is either wrong, or being actively malicious with its products in order to sell more of them.
- Spivak 5y ago
  I mean it’s not really malicious to design a single-user system. At best it’s passively malicious. Sure, you can always share your personal pizza but you have to deal with the consequences that it was sized for one person and you both might be hungry after. Are you upset about the fact that you can’t have multiple isolated user-accounts on an iPhone?
  - ctvo 5y ago
    > Are you upset about the fact that you can’t have multiple isolated user-accounts on an iPhone? The iPhone was mentioned once, to connect it’s not possible on either iPhone or iPad. This is about the iPad, a completely different class of device, where it makes sense it would be shared, at least within a family, and has nothing to do with personal pizzas. It'a small point here, but the way you moved the goal post so your analogy applied more really bothered me.
    - Spivak 5y ago
      “I want device to be shareable” is very different than “Apple is malicious for not making device shareable.” I’m not trying to move the goalposts because I think of my iPad as just a larger iPhone. To me they’re the same. It’s such an odd dynamic because I see so many families sharing an iPad which isn’t multi-user but then treating laptops as personal.

mbesto 5y ago

> I need to log in with my personal credentials to download software from the Mac App store. Do you though? Why not just setup a "apps@<yourbiz>.com" and create a new account? > and now her personal iMessages and emails are on it. It's stupid. So just turn these services off? They aren't mandatory.

saba2008 5y ago
Registering AppleID involves phone number checking. In some countries getting one without exposing personal information is not trivial.
- donmcronald 5y ago
  Lots of services won’t allow duplicates. For example, you can’t use the same number for account recovery on two different Microsoft accounts. Zoho won’t let you register more than one account with the same number. Etc.. I silo my profiles. I have 4 of them. It’s really hard to do. Everyone encourages you to put all your stuff into a single profile. It’s awful for work life balance and security, but it benefits big tech companies, so that’s why it’s like that. Do you want separate profiles for your password manager? Pay twice. Do you want separate personal and work windows installs (dual boot)? Pay twice. Etc..
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    Free, reputable password managers are available if you want to separate two different databases. As for work and personal Windows, it's likely that your company covers the licensing cost of their copy.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

Terretta 5y ago

I feel like several of your problems where you “have to” do this or that, you’re missing the value of iCloud “child” accounts that can be enabled to use the parent account’s things they didn’t pay for. Especially for the literal kids, use a child account. But also use a child account for the work machine so it can use your apps but isn’t your personal messages and photos.

yarcob 5y ago
Child accounts don't fix the problem that it is a shared device. I've never considered creating a fake child account for business use, but I have tried to create some fake Apple IDs for shared devices, so I didn't need to use personal credentials. Unfortunately Apple has blocked these fake accounts from accessing some services, so I had to fall back to using personal accounts.

vageli 5y ago

> It's shared by multiple people. I need to log in with my personal credentials to download software from the Mac App store. I thought this was solved with managed Apple IDs? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210737 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210737

kelnos 5y ago

This is one of the things Google actually got right with Android. I can add as many Google accounts to my phone as I want. Anything that needs to be associated with a Google account lets me choose which account to use, and I can selectively decide what gets (and does not get) synced from each account (mail, contacts, photos, store purchases, etc.). Many apps will even let me switch between accounts easily and seamlessly.