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I need a connected phone that isn't built for addiction. For example, I need Uber for the rare cases where I'm in a jam at 3 AM and need to get back home. I ne

I need a connected phone that isn't built for addiction. For example, I need Uber for the rare cases where I'm in a jam at 3 AM and need to get back home. I need maps for when I'm looking for directions. I need a web browser to access my bank and the occasional Google search. I can live with or without Whatsapp or Signal, that depends on how much you use it I guess. However, I don't need Facebook, Twitter or TikTok or any social app. I feel these "minimalist" phones fail to be useful.

neither_color 5y ago
I simply dont have facebook, twitter or tiktok installed on my phone.
- Raed667 5y ago
  You have better self-control than me.
  - new_guy 5y ago
    This is the ultimate problem. It's a human issue, not a technology issue.
    - Raed667 5y ago
      It is a technology issue in the sense that these companies are paying 6 figures to top designers and developers to optimize for eyeball-time.
      - redwoolf 5y ago
        Isn't that still a human issue?
    - robbrown451 5y ago
      It's a human issue that technology can exploit to your detriment, or it can help with. Here is an example from my life. I enjoy cannabis. I love the creative mode I get into when I use it, I love how periodic use can allow me to reexamine things from a different perspective, and so on. Great stuff. (and yes, it is legal here and sold in about 4 stores within a ten minute walk) What I don't like is how, if I have it sitting around my house, I am tempted to use it when I need to get work done, and it will get in the way of that and cause me to waste time. I would become an unproductive stoner if it was always around. Enter technology. I bought a lockbox with a timer. Pull out a little bit, then lock it up for 4-5 days. Works perfectly for me. Some people could say "why not just learn some discipline?" (easier said than done) Others will say "if you have an addiction, just don't buy the stuff." I say, why can't I have the best of both? Same goes for things like phone and web addiction. Technology can help. I don't like this solution (too all-or-nothing.... it's like the "just don't buy the stuff" solution), but I do like the idea of technology helping with what is otherwise a human issue.
    - nonbirithm 5y ago
      Maybe it's a fundamental property of increased globalization and communication increasing the amount and kinds of information we're capable of sending? The addictive information shares bandwidth with the practical information by its very nature. I was also considering a feature phone a long time ago, and also like the parent the reason I couldn't bring myself to make the switch was because I was worried I'd end up needing to use Lyft. A Lyft app for feature phones doesn't sound like an attractive business target, and even if the market was such that Lyft felt like making one then in the end Facebook would probably also feel like making their own. Those incentives turn the smartphone game into an all-or-nothing affair if you want the convenience of modern apps, for better or worse.
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    To some degree it can be improved. Putting the phone physically out of reach works best for me. Strangely, being well rested helps me too.
  - hanche 5y ago
    Lack of self-control is precisely why I don’t want these apps. Apart from privacy issues.
- igetspam 5y ago
  For subtracted difficulty (opposite of added?), I don't have accounts on any of those things anyway. I find the easiest way to win is not to play.
  - invictus_78 5y ago
    What about FOMO?
    - acomar 5y ago
      what would I miss out on?
      - acomar 5y ago
        I spent some time thinking about this last night and want to re-emphasize this question. I'm serious. I genuinely can't think of something I might miss out on. when my friends are doing something, they text me. when something is happening in the world, the people around me are talking about it. and if they're not, who cares? how is it relevant to my life? more importantly, FOMO, when applied to real relationships, leads to this utilitarian mindset where you view other people and your interactions with them in highly objectified ways, centering the possible opportunities your relationships with others might provide. other people don't exist for your benefit. this is a form of non-sexual fetishization, where you start to view actual people as tools and grant those tools metaphysical power over your life - not interacting with them might lead you to missing out on something /critical/. treat people like people. spend time with people because you like them and enjoy your time with them. don't fixate on your own ends and make means of other people.
potatoman22 5y ago
Perhaps this would be better as an Android ROM than its own phone?
- curiousgal 5y ago
  You can probably achieve all of those things with Tasker.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  My sony z5c (4.6 inches) has this "ultra stamina" mode that basically turns it into a feature phone.
foxpurple 5y ago
The Apple Watch is the right form factor for this. You can do almost anything but certain things are so annoying you wouldn’t bother. Voice control is the best way to use it which makes it great for getting directions, making a call or etc. but you wouldn’t consider scrolling reddit on it.
- zikduruqe 5y ago
  This. I seldom, if ever, carry my iPhone with me anywhere. But, for that one time that I actually have to make a phone call, I can.
throwawaygh 5y ago
> However, I don't need Facebook, Twitter or TikTok or any social app. So... don't install those apps? I guess that's easier said than done. I keep an `/etc/hosts` list of distracting websites (includes HN) and route them all back to my hobby trello task board. Message to myself being, "hey, distractions from work are fine, but wouldn't you rather be working on one of these things than screwing around in a comments section?" And I have a shell script that will wipe a given line of the /etc/hosts for 30 minutes in case I decide "nope, I really do want to screw around in the comments section this time." Maybe someone should build an app that does something similar -- redirects you when you try to either visit or install fb/twitter/tiktok... not sure if possible without jailbreaking or using an alt app store, though.
- FairDune 5y ago
  Is this etc/hosts on Android?
- prostoalex 5y ago
  Cal Newport in “Digital minimalism” has a plan of attack for addictive loops. 1) force yourself to use the mobile web site vs the dedicated app 2) at the end of the session log out, increasing the friction of using the app mindlessly
  - hn8788 5y ago
    Another thing I've started doing that works for me is removing a page from the history on my browser. It's easy to mindlessly browse something like reddit when I can just type 'r' and hit enter because the browser autocompletes sites in my history, but even the 1 second it takes to type out 'reddit.com' gives my brain time to realize there's nothing in particular I wanted to look at, and I was just going there out of habit because I was bored.
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      I have the same problem! I'd really like to turn off autocomplete completely to resolve it, but Chrome doesn't allow that. :( Remembering to manually remove the site from my history every time isn't gonna happen.
seized 5y ago
So don't install those things? At some point it isn't the phones problem to limit a user from those things. I don't have Facebook, Twitter, etc on my phone.
- Raed667 5y ago
  It is like telling an alcoholic "simply don't drink".
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    I see it more like "don't go to bars" which is pretty good advice.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- elliekelly 5y ago
  I don’t have Facebook, Twitter, etc. on my phone either. But if we have a group of people saying “help! I’d really like a product that can do $thing for me because I struggle to do it alone” it would seem there’s clearly a market/opportunity. Just because we don’t struggle with or need the product being described doesn’t mean there’s no need for it.
- somehnacct3757 5y ago
  The USP of dumbphones is that they provide internet access to a curated subset of apps. There's no easy way to tell an Android that you do want data going to maps and chat apps, but not to your web browser or social media app. You have to jiggle dozens of permissions sliders every time you switch 'modes'. Dumbphones are that toggle. Is it going to find a $200-$300 enthusiast market? Not sure... I could see myself buying a Light Phone, but I also wonder if it's only a software problem, and subtracting features from Android will get you to the sweet spot quicker than building them up from feature phones.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Swizec 5y ago
My relationship with my phone greatly improved when I turned on DoNotDisturb mode and hid all of the red county icon widgets … many years ago. It’s the best. Your phone no longer distracts you. Can’t. The temptation is still there in your pocket, but if you’re doing stuff and mind isn’t looking for distraction, you won’t even notice your phone exists.
- diskzero 5y ago
  Good advice. Now we just need to apply this type of thinking across the entire app and OS ecosystem. I never want to be prompted for any sort of permissions or accidentally grant some while clicking to dismiss the wave of prompts you sometime encounter.
bamboozled 5y ago
What would be cool is if voice assistants get to the point where you can just talk to the phone to get an Uber etc.
- hammyhavoc 5y ago
  Would need to be a privacy-respecting voice assistant. Think we will be waiting a very long time. Besides, Uber is ethically questionable.
- psim1 5y ago
  You used to do this by calling the cab company and telling dispatch where you wanted to be picked up.
  - bamboozled 5y ago
    :)
    - psim1 5y ago
      haha, you got me. Bamboozled indeed.
mmaunder 5y ago
Yeah I came here to say something similar. I feel like there's a middle ground, but this isn't it. Almost like a Firefox of phones that gets rid of the unethical, unhealthy and addictive junk and keeps the essential stuff. Maybe it's more of an operating mode that we can enable on existing phones. Stuff I absolutely need when AFK: Maps, slack, whatsapp, windy, tides, gmail, expensify and a few others. Stuff I don't need: Facebook, twitter, news apps that "ALERT!!!" me when it's nothing important, etc.
rangerdan 5y ago
> I need [x] that isn't built for addiction. You're going to be waiting a long time and perhaps will never solve this problem with technology. Healthy diet, healthy relationships, diet and exercise will help you overcome addition, not waiting for a miracle cure from tech gods.
istinetz 5y ago
You can castrate your phone to remove all the pointless crap. I am really happy with the StayFocusd app. In strict mode, it can block all distracting websites and apps, block settings and changing permissions, block installing and uninstalling apps - it's basically perfect for internet addicts. You still have Google maps, but no Facebook or Instagram.
nicbou 5y ago
I use uBlock to disable the feeds and notification badges for those websites. This means I can still get information from reddit through Google, but can't browse it or read my messages. I also turned off notifications for emails and other things that can wait. At around 11PM the phone goes silent and most apps are on a timer. This is ridiculously effective. I had to make an exception for Hacker News because I was running out of offline reading material.

neither_color 5y ago

I simply dont have facebook, twitter or tiktok installed on my phone.

Raed667 5y ago
You have better self-control than me.
- new_guy 5y ago
  This is the ultimate problem. It's a human issue, not a technology issue.
  - Raed667 5y ago
    It is a technology issue in the sense that these companies are paying 6 figures to top designers and developers to optimize for eyeball-time.
    - redwoolf 5y ago
      Isn't that still a human issue?
  - robbrown451 5y ago
    It's a human issue that technology can exploit to your detriment, or it can help with. Here is an example from my life. I enjoy cannabis. I love the creative mode I get into when I use it, I love how periodic use can allow me to reexamine things from a different perspective, and so on. Great stuff. (and yes, it is legal here and sold in about 4 stores within a ten minute walk) What I don't like is how, if I have it sitting around my house, I am tempted to use it when I need to get work done, and it will get in the way of that and cause me to waste time. I would become an unproductive stoner if it was always around. Enter technology. I bought a lockbox with a timer. Pull out a little bit, then lock it up for 4-5 days. Works perfectly for me. Some people could say "why not just learn some discipline?" (easier said than done) Others will say "if you have an addiction, just don't buy the stuff." I say, why can't I have the best of both? Same goes for things like phone and web addiction. Technology can help. I don't like this solution (too all-or-nothing.... it's like the "just don't buy the stuff" solution), but I do like the idea of technology helping with what is otherwise a human issue.
  - nonbirithm 5y ago
    Maybe it's a fundamental property of increased globalization and communication increasing the amount and kinds of information we're capable of sending? The addictive information shares bandwidth with the practical information by its very nature. I was also considering a feature phone a long time ago, and also like the parent the reason I couldn't bring myself to make the switch was because I was worried I'd end up needing to use Lyft. A Lyft app for feature phones doesn't sound like an attractive business target, and even if the market was such that Lyft felt like making one then in the end Facebook would probably also feel like making their own. Those incentives turn the smartphone game into an all-or-nothing affair if you want the convenience of modern apps, for better or worse.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  To some degree it can be improved. Putting the phone physically out of reach works best for me. Strangely, being well rested helps me too.
- hanche 5y ago
  Lack of self-control is precisely why I don’t want these apps. Apart from privacy issues.
igetspam 5y ago
For subtracted difficulty (opposite of added?), I don't have accounts on any of those things anyway. I find the easiest way to win is not to play.
- invictus_78 5y ago
  What about FOMO?
  - acomar 5y ago
    what would I miss out on?
    - acomar 5y ago
      I spent some time thinking about this last night and want to re-emphasize this question. I'm serious. I genuinely can't think of something I might miss out on. when my friends are doing something, they text me. when something is happening in the world, the people around me are talking about it. and if they're not, who cares? how is it relevant to my life? more importantly, FOMO, when applied to real relationships, leads to this utilitarian mindset where you view other people and your interactions with them in highly objectified ways, centering the possible opportunities your relationships with others might provide. other people don't exist for your benefit. this is a form of non-sexual fetishization, where you start to view actual people as tools and grant those tools metaphysical power over your life - not interacting with them might lead you to missing out on something /critical/. treat people like people. spend time with people because you like them and enjoy your time with them. don't fixate on your own ends and make means of other people.

potatoman22 5y ago

Perhaps this would be better as an Android ROM than its own phone?

curiousgal 5y ago
You can probably achieve all of those things with Tasker.
johnchristopher 5y ago
My sony z5c (4.6 inches) has this "ultra stamina" mode that basically turns it into a feature phone.

foxpurple 5y ago

The Apple Watch is the right form factor for this. You can do almost anything but certain things are so annoying you wouldn’t bother. Voice control is the best way to use it which makes it great for getting directions, making a call or etc. but you wouldn’t consider scrolling reddit on it.

zikduruqe 5y ago
This. I seldom, if ever, carry my iPhone with me anywhere. But, for that one time that I actually have to make a phone call, I can.

throwawaygh 5y ago

> However, I don't need Facebook, Twitter or TikTok or any social app. So... don't install those apps? I guess that's easier said than done. I keep an `/etc/hosts` list of distracting websites (includes HN) and route them all back to my hobby trello task board. Message to myself being, "hey, distractions from work are fine, but wouldn't you rather be working on one of these things than screwing around in a comments section?" And I have a shell script that will wipe a given line of the /etc/hosts for 30 minutes in case I decide "nope, I really do want to screw around in the comments section this time." Maybe someone should build an app that does something similar -- redirects you when you try to either visit or install fb/twitter/tiktok... not sure if possible without jailbreaking or using an alt app store, though.

FairDune 5y ago
Is this etc/hosts on Android?
prostoalex 5y ago
Cal Newport in “Digital minimalism” has a plan of attack for addictive loops. 1) force yourself to use the mobile web site vs the dedicated app 2) at the end of the session log out, increasing the friction of using the app mindlessly
- hn8788 5y ago
  Another thing I've started doing that works for me is removing a page from the history on my browser. It's easy to mindlessly browse something like reddit when I can just type 'r' and hit enter because the browser autocompletes sites in my history, but even the 1 second it takes to type out 'reddit.com' gives my brain time to realize there's nothing in particular I wanted to look at, and I was just going there out of habit because I was bored.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    I have the same problem! I'd really like to turn off autocomplete completely to resolve it, but Chrome doesn't allow that. :( Remembering to manually remove the site from my history every time isn't gonna happen.

seized 5y ago

So don't install those things? At some point it isn't the phones problem to limit a user from those things. I don't have Facebook, Twitter, etc on my phone.

Raed667 5y ago
It is like telling an alcoholic "simply don't drink".
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  I see it more like "don't go to bars" which is pretty good advice.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
elliekelly 5y ago
I don’t have Facebook, Twitter, etc. on my phone either. But if we have a group of people saying “help! I’d really like a product that can do $thing for me because I struggle to do it alone” it would seem there’s clearly a market/opportunity. Just because we don’t struggle with or need the product being described doesn’t mean there’s no need for it.
somehnacct3757 5y ago
The USP of dumbphones is that they provide internet access to a curated subset of apps. There's no easy way to tell an Android that you do want data going to maps and chat apps, but not to your web browser or social media app. You have to jiggle dozens of permissions sliders every time you switch 'modes'. Dumbphones are that toggle. Is it going to find a $200-$300 enthusiast market? Not sure... I could see myself buying a Light Phone, but I also wonder if it's only a software problem, and subtracting features from Android will get you to the sweet spot quicker than building them up from feature phones.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Swizec 5y ago

My relationship with my phone greatly improved when I turned on DoNotDisturb mode and hid all of the red county icon widgets … many years ago. It’s the best. Your phone no longer distracts you. Can’t. The temptation is still there in your pocket, but if you’re doing stuff and mind isn’t looking for distraction, you won’t even notice your phone exists.

diskzero 5y ago
Good advice. Now we just need to apply this type of thinking across the entire app and OS ecosystem. I never want to be prompted for any sort of permissions or accidentally grant some while clicking to dismiss the wave of prompts you sometime encounter.

bamboozled 5y ago

What would be cool is if voice assistants get to the point where you can just talk to the phone to get an Uber etc.

hammyhavoc 5y ago
Would need to be a privacy-respecting voice assistant. Think we will be waiting a very long time. Besides, Uber is ethically questionable.
psim1 5y ago
You used to do this by calling the cab company and telling dispatch where you wanted to be picked up.
- bamboozled 5y ago
  :)
  - psim1 5y ago
    haha, you got me. Bamboozled indeed.

mmaunder 5y ago

Yeah I came here to say something similar. I feel like there's a middle ground, but this isn't it. Almost like a Firefox of phones that gets rid of the unethical, unhealthy and addictive junk and keeps the essential stuff. Maybe it's more of an operating mode that we can enable on existing phones. Stuff I absolutely need when AFK: Maps, slack, whatsapp, windy, tides, gmail, expensify and a few others. Stuff I don't need: Facebook, twitter, news apps that "ALERT!!!" me when it's nothing important, etc.

rangerdan 5y ago

> I need [x] that isn't built for addiction. You're going to be waiting a long time and perhaps will never solve this problem with technology. Healthy diet, healthy relationships, diet and exercise will help you overcome addition, not waiting for a miracle cure from tech gods.

istinetz 5y ago

You can castrate your phone to remove all the pointless crap. I am really happy with the StayFocusd app. In strict mode, it can block all distracting websites and apps, block settings and changing permissions, block installing and uninstalling apps - it's basically perfect for internet addicts. You still have Google maps, but no Facebook or Instagram.

nicbou 5y ago

I use uBlock to disable the feeds and notification badges for those websites. This means I can still get information from reddit through Google, but can't browse it or read my messages. I also turned off notifications for emails and other things that can wait. At around 11PM the phone goes silent and most apps are on a timer. This is ridiculously effective. I had to make an exception for Hacker News because I was running out of offline reading material.