6 ms·

I've noticed that, like the author, many advocating for WFH live far away from their office and have long commutes. Suppose your office were next door. Then, y

I've noticed that, like the author, many advocating for WFH live far away from their office and have long commutes. Suppose your office were next door. Then, you could have a 1-minute commute and enjoy some degree of socialization and the amenities of the office. You could have lunch at home, and you wouldn't need dedicated workspace there. The fact that many would prefer this setup to WFH suggests that the problem is not the office itself but the commute. There is a distance that, for most folks, commuting doesn't present much of a problem. For example, my commute by bicycle is about 9 minutes, bus 15 minutes, car 20 minutes. I think the trade-off is worth it here, but I can imagine a point where it wouldn't be.

WalterBright 5y ago
Ideally, the office is a 15 minute walk from home. Then you get a nice daily walk. I always enjoyed my walk to/from school.
Arcanum-XIII 5y ago
I once had a short (10 minutes) commute. I worked a lot at home because my home setup is better than what any work provide (better screen, better chair, often better computer)... and no one bothered me with "hey, how is it going" every 30 minutes, judged me for leaving my desk for 1 hour, on what I ate or not. Heck, I could THINK. Those things are way too scarce in an open office. So no, even for a short commute, I don't want to go to the office.
- dSebastien 5y ago
  Exactly!
tgv 5y ago
Totally, but it's not always possible to move close to work. I'd even say it's frequently near impossible or undesirable.
Arainach 5y ago
This doesn't scale, though. It's the fundamental problem - unless all your employees are interested in living in a place dense enough to support great transit (and willing to pay the rent premium), many of them will have to commute. There are only a few places in the world with transit of that caliber (Tokyo, London, NYC, etc. ). Even most medium or large cities aren't good enough for that experience. Public transit in Seattle is a disgrace (in most areas you're lucky if you can get one bus per half hour, and that bus is stuck in the same traffic as cars, and those buses never go from where you are to where you want - you have to go downtown and transfer from there, and the buses stop running long before the bars close). BART isn't exactly holding up well either.
- ghaff 5y ago
  And, honestly, rush hour commuting in Tokyo/NYC/London isn't great either. I didn't read the parent as arguing for living near work. Rather I read it as him saying that the commute is what tips the scales towards WFH most days for many people. Which I think is absolutely true.
  - dSebastien 5y ago
    Indeed, I wasn't arguing about living close to or far away from the office. I was arguing about not having the choice of going to the office when we've proven that it's almost never really needed. I'm just for freedom of choice.
ghaff 5y ago
That's almost certainly true for many. If I were a 10 minute walk from my office and had a dedicated desk, I would probably go in semi-regularly. I don't even have a bad commute--about a 30 minute drive--but it's enough that if there's no good reason for me to go into the office (which there rarely is) I don't. I'm also on a very distributed team so it's not unusual if I do go into the office to meet with someone, I often don't run into anyone else I know.
Consultant32452 5y ago
The other side of this coin is the home working space. If you live in a tiny little efficiency in NYC, I can imagine WFH is a fucking nightmare. If you have a ranch style home in the burbs with a room you can dedicate to being a home office, it's pretty nice.
- dSebastien 5y ago
  Yes, of course. There are so many shades of grey... That's why I tried to remain careful with the statements I made in my article. I've described my specific situation (family, both working in IT, two children, living far away from the office, etc), and didn't want to speak for everyone.
jayski 5y ago
maybe im just lazy and immature, but i really enjoy being in sweatpants and t-shirt all day. i only put on jeans and a button down 2-3 times per week. also when you have little kids its such a privilege to be home all day, being able to take a 5 min break to go give them a hug and kiss and wrestle around with them a little bit. im super comfortable and productive working from home, i love it.
- wjamesg 5y ago
  But who is watching the kids with two working parents?
  - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
    If remote work is a true option, people have the option to live close to extended family. Children can spend time with grandparents, aunts and uncles. Now, I'll grant you I sound like a hippy but if you read child psychology literature, these styles of multigeneration household/child-rearing is supposed to be good for both the children and the elders. https://carrothealth.com/crowded-house-the-surprising-benefits-of-multigenerational-housing/ https://carrothealth.com/crowded-house-the-surprising-benefi...
  - jayski 5y ago
    my wife doesnt work, she would rather be with the kids. also we have a nanny for half the day. how can i afford this? i work for a US company, but live outside the US.
midrus 5y ago
Not even in this case I'd return. I prefer to be able to cook my own food, have lunch at home with my partner when she is here, not having to deal with the noises and all the chit chat around me all day, etc.
throwawayboise 5y ago
For some, the commute is a trade-off made and accepted so that they don't have to live in a crowded, noisy city center which is where many offices are. I lived in a city, had a short commute to work. That was nice. But I hated living there except for that. I moved to an outlying area where I could have a house and a garden and a workshop in the garage. The commute went way up, which sucked, but when I was home I was so much more relaxed and happier it was worth it.
- dSebastien 5y ago
  Exactly. I'm the author of the article. My wife and I don't want to live in a city. We grew and always lived in small villages. The land is more affordable, there's much less pollution, we have more than enough space, a vegetable garden, hens, etc. We don't want to change any of that. Of course every situation is different. Many colleagues live close to the office and are glad to be able to go there regularly. They enjoy it, and there's nothing wrong with that. We initially found work in the capital because it's where the best opportunities are. All the big financial & European institutions have their headquarters in Brussels. Salaries are also much more interesting. One of the points I wanted to convey in the article is that we've now proved that we can achieve the same work remotely, so there's no point in forcing us to go back to the office. It's about freedom of choice more than anything.
rufus_foreman 5y ago
>> Suppose your office were next door. Then, you could have a 1-minute commute and enjoy some degree of socialization I'm a software developer. I don't enjoy socialization with other software developers. Not at all. Not ever. I write code for money, it's called "compensation" for a reason. People do not seem to be getting the message. I don't want any degree of socialization. None. Zero. Honest question, how can I possibly make this clearer to people like you?

WalterBright 5y ago

Ideally, the office is a 15 minute walk from home. Then you get a nice daily walk. I always enjoyed my walk to/from school.

Arcanum-XIII 5y ago

I once had a short (10 minutes) commute. I worked a lot at home because my home setup is better than what any work provide (better screen, better chair, often better computer)... and no one bothered me with "hey, how is it going" every 30 minutes, judged me for leaving my desk for 1 hour, on what I ate or not. Heck, I could THINK. Those things are way too scarce in an open office. So no, even for a short commute, I don't want to go to the office.

dSebastien 5y ago
Exactly!

tgv 5y ago

Totally, but it's not always possible to move close to work. I'd even say it's frequently near impossible or undesirable.

Arainach 5y ago

This doesn't scale, though. It's the fundamental problem - unless all your employees are interested in living in a place dense enough to support great transit (and willing to pay the rent premium), many of them will have to commute. There are only a few places in the world with transit of that caliber (Tokyo, London, NYC, etc. ). Even most medium or large cities aren't good enough for that experience. Public transit in Seattle is a disgrace (in most areas you're lucky if you can get one bus per half hour, and that bus is stuck in the same traffic as cars, and those buses never go from where you are to where you want - you have to go downtown and transfer from there, and the buses stop running long before the bars close). BART isn't exactly holding up well either.

ghaff 5y ago
And, honestly, rush hour commuting in Tokyo/NYC/London isn't great either. I didn't read the parent as arguing for living near work. Rather I read it as him saying that the commute is what tips the scales towards WFH most days for many people. Which I think is absolutely true.
- dSebastien 5y ago
  Indeed, I wasn't arguing about living close to or far away from the office. I was arguing about not having the choice of going to the office when we've proven that it's almost never really needed. I'm just for freedom of choice.

ghaff 5y ago

That's almost certainly true for many. If I were a 10 minute walk from my office and had a dedicated desk, I would probably go in semi-regularly. I don't even have a bad commute--about a 30 minute drive--but it's enough that if there's no good reason for me to go into the office (which there rarely is) I don't. I'm also on a very distributed team so it's not unusual if I do go into the office to meet with someone, I often don't run into anyone else I know.

Consultant32452 5y ago

The other side of this coin is the home working space. If you live in a tiny little efficiency in NYC, I can imagine WFH is a fucking nightmare. If you have a ranch style home in the burbs with a room you can dedicate to being a home office, it's pretty nice.

dSebastien 5y ago
Yes, of course. There are so many shades of grey... That's why I tried to remain careful with the statements I made in my article. I've described my specific situation (family, both working in IT, two children, living far away from the office, etc), and didn't want to speak for everyone.

jayski 5y ago

maybe im just lazy and immature, but i really enjoy being in sweatpants and t-shirt all day. i only put on jeans and a button down 2-3 times per week. also when you have little kids its such a privilege to be home all day, being able to take a 5 min break to go give them a hug and kiss and wrestle around with them a little bit. im super comfortable and productive working from home, i love it.

wjamesg 5y ago
But who is watching the kids with two working parents?
- UnpossibleJim 5y ago
  If remote work is a true option, people have the option to live close to extended family. Children can spend time with grandparents, aunts and uncles. Now, I'll grant you I sound like a hippy but if you read child psychology literature, these styles of multigeneration household/child-rearing is supposed to be good for both the children and the elders. https://carrothealth.com/crowded-house-the-surprising-benefits-of-multigenerational-housing/ https://carrothealth.com/crowded-house-the-surprising-benefi...
- jayski 5y ago
  my wife doesnt work, she would rather be with the kids. also we have a nanny for half the day. how can i afford this? i work for a US company, but live outside the US.

midrus 5y ago

Not even in this case I'd return. I prefer to be able to cook my own food, have lunch at home with my partner when she is here, not having to deal with the noises and all the chit chat around me all day, etc.

throwawayboise 5y ago

For some, the commute is a trade-off made and accepted so that they don't have to live in a crowded, noisy city center which is where many offices are. I lived in a city, had a short commute to work. That was nice. But I hated living there except for that. I moved to an outlying area where I could have a house and a garden and a workshop in the garage. The commute went way up, which sucked, but when I was home I was so much more relaxed and happier it was worth it.

dSebastien 5y ago
Exactly. I'm the author of the article. My wife and I don't want to live in a city. We grew and always lived in small villages. The land is more affordable, there's much less pollution, we have more than enough space, a vegetable garden, hens, etc. We don't want to change any of that. Of course every situation is different. Many colleagues live close to the office and are glad to be able to go there regularly. They enjoy it, and there's nothing wrong with that. We initially found work in the capital because it's where the best opportunities are. All the big financial & European institutions have their headquarters in Brussels. Salaries are also much more interesting. One of the points I wanted to convey in the article is that we've now proved that we can achieve the same work remotely, so there's no point in forcing us to go back to the office. It's about freedom of choice more than anything.

rufus_foreman 5y ago

>> Suppose your office were next door. Then, you could have a 1-minute commute and enjoy some degree of socialization I'm a software developer. I don't enjoy socialization with other software developers. Not at all. Not ever. I write code for money, it's called "compensation" for a reason. People do not seem to be getting the message. I don't want any degree of socialization. None. Zero. Honest question, how can I possibly make this clearer to people like you?