6 ms·

Note that it appears that it is still unknown how likely breakthrough infections are to result in long Covid. The very limited data that does exist indicates th

Note that it appears that it is still unknown how likely breakthrough infections are to result in long Covid. The very limited data that does exist indicates that the likelyhood is rather high (~20%). https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/well/live/vaccine-long-covid-breakthrough-infection.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/well/live/vaccine-long-co...

irthomasthomas 5y ago
Long Covid has the same symptoms as stress, anxiety and depression, which are to be expected after contracting a pandemic level virus and being forced to isolate. Is there any proof yet that it is any more than that?
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  Stress, anxiety and depression don't show up as lung damage on MRI scans.
  - nitrogen 5y ago
    What are the stats on that, especially vs. other severe respiratory diseases? Asking because I've had "long covid" since long before there was a COVID, so either everyone's making a bigger deal out of it than necessary, or I'm actually much worse off relative to normal than I thought and I should really be questioning my doctors.
    - Closi 5y ago
      > Asking because I've had "long covid" since long before there was a COVID Well that isn’t “Long Covid” then. Symptoms can come from a variety of causes, and just because you suffered some of the same symptoms unrelated to a Covid infection doesn’t mean that others won’t experience similar symptoms after Covid.
      - nitrogen 5y ago
        So what are the percentages of people who will have long-term symptoms from Covid, how does that compare in severity and frequency to other respiratory diseases, and if it wasn't something people cared about before Covid, why do they care now?
        Closi 5y ago
        > So what are the percentages of people who will have long-term symptoms from Covid Im from the UK, so for rates here see https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/prevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk/1april2021 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan... although I’m sure the USA will have their own stats. > how does that compare in severity and frequency to other respiratory diseases I’m not sure and that’s a very wide question, but the main difference is we have never had such a large amount of the population get a respiratory disease so quickly because of the transmissability. > if it wasn't something people cared about before Covid, why do they care now? Some people cared about it before Covid, and now more people care about it because it’s becoming more prevalent with the spread of Covid. I mean to ask the same question - why didn’t people really care about respiratory viruses until about 2 years ago?
  - polote 5y ago
    Almost none of the 20% people mentionned had a MRI scan. So you don't answer the question. The problem of long covid studies is they don't have a control group, so it is easy to say wrong things. Its probably closer to 1-4% than 20%
- monoideism 5y ago
  Long covid often includes easily quantifiable issues such as lung and heart issues.
- amznthrwaway 5y ago
  Long covid also shows itself in lung function, with decreased vo2max, visible lung damage, etc. I am unsurprised that this disinformation was posted by a user who posts right-wing extremist propaganda nearly exclusively.
- logicalmonster 5y ago
  This is roughly my theory on long-covid too. The social isolation, stress, lack of sun and exercise, bad diets, and other side effects of the hypochondriac society we now live in are largely responsible for what is called long-covid. I think lung damage found in some cases is likely fairly typical post-covid, but my theory is that this is common after any harsh illness involving the respiratory system whether it’s cold/flu/covid, we just weren’t looking for it nearly as often before.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  I've had heart problems to the point that I can't do any exercise more vigorous than walking without getting heart pain severe enough to make me stop immediately, and often suffering from extreme fatigue in the days afterwards. I was previously a reasonably fit 28 year old who regularly danced, occasionally went to the gym etc. It's nothing like depression. The symptoms are very much physical.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  ^ It's worth underscoring here that nocebo symptoms are absolutely real symptoms, they just aren't caused by the thing you think they're caused by! It's not unreasonable to suspect that the nocebo effect is responsible for at least a very large portion of "long COVID" cases, particularly as many associated symptoms, such as brain fog, are very hard to test for!
- Jeema101 5y ago
  Yes there is: Brain imaging before and after COVID-19 in UK Biobank https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v... Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from COVID-19 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... Long term loss of smell and taste is not a known symptom of stress, anxiety, or depression either as far as I am aware.
phkahler 5y ago
Isn't long Covid caused by damage from the spike proteins? In that case, repeatedly giving people the vaccine might do damage as well since it gets you to produce those spike proteins right?
- eecc 5y ago
  orders of magnitude less though.
- red_trumpet 5y ago
  What's your source that spike proteins cause long covid? This article[1] says the cause of long covid is still not clear. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57833394 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57833394
- nradov 5y ago
  Long COVID isn't a distinct disease, it's just a vague label for a set of non specific symptoms. There is evidence that some cases are caused by re-activation of dormant Epstein-Barr virus infections. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8233978/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8233978/ If proven correct that wouldn't be at all surprising. We already know that major stresses can sometimes reactivate EBV. It might be a good idea to also test all COVID-19 patients for EBV.
- undersuit 5y ago
  The spike proteins allow Covid to enter your cell where its actual RNA coopts the cellular machinery of the cell to reproduce. After enough copies of the virus are assembled the RNA coopted cell is made to kill itself by self-lysis releasing the new viruses. The spike protein itself is not dangerous.
  - singingfish 5y ago
    I think it kind of is because it's got a similar binding affinity to heparin. Heparin is a first responder chemical in the immune system. Coopting a low level part of the immune system like that is rather more dangerous than if it were getting entry via some other mechanism. On the other hand I could be wrong about this.

irthomasthomas 5y ago

Long Covid has the same symptoms as stress, anxiety and depression, which are to be expected after contracting a pandemic level virus and being forced to isolate. Is there any proof yet that it is any more than that?

TeMPOraL 5y ago
Stress, anxiety and depression don't show up as lung damage on MRI scans.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  What are the stats on that, especially vs. other severe respiratory diseases? Asking because I've had "long covid" since long before there was a COVID, so either everyone's making a bigger deal out of it than necessary, or I'm actually much worse off relative to normal than I thought and I should really be questioning my doctors.
  - Closi 5y ago
    > Asking because I've had "long covid" since long before there was a COVID Well that isn’t “Long Covid” then. Symptoms can come from a variety of causes, and just because you suffered some of the same symptoms unrelated to a Covid infection doesn’t mean that others won’t experience similar symptoms after Covid.
    - nitrogen 5y ago
      So what are the percentages of people who will have long-term symptoms from Covid, how does that compare in severity and frequency to other respiratory diseases, and if it wasn't something people cared about before Covid, why do they care now?
      - Closi 5y ago
        > So what are the percentages of people who will have long-term symptoms from Covid Im from the UK, so for rates here see https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/prevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk/1april2021 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan... although I’m sure the USA will have their own stats. > how does that compare in severity and frequency to other respiratory diseases I’m not sure and that’s a very wide question, but the main difference is we have never had such a large amount of the population get a respiratory disease so quickly because of the transmissability. > if it wasn't something people cared about before Covid, why do they care now? Some people cared about it before Covid, and now more people care about it because it’s becoming more prevalent with the spread of Covid. I mean to ask the same question - why didn’t people really care about respiratory viruses until about 2 years ago?
- polote 5y ago
  Almost none of the 20% people mentionned had a MRI scan. So you don't answer the question. The problem of long covid studies is they don't have a control group, so it is easy to say wrong things. Its probably closer to 1-4% than 20%
monoideism 5y ago
Long covid often includes easily quantifiable issues such as lung and heart issues.
amznthrwaway 5y ago
Long covid also shows itself in lung function, with decreased vo2max, visible lung damage, etc. I am unsurprised that this disinformation was posted by a user who posts right-wing extremist propaganda nearly exclusively.
logicalmonster 5y ago
This is roughly my theory on long-covid too. The social isolation, stress, lack of sun and exercise, bad diets, and other side effects of the hypochondriac society we now live in are largely responsible for what is called long-covid. I think lung damage found in some cases is likely fairly typical post-covid, but my theory is that this is common after any harsh illness involving the respiratory system whether it’s cold/flu/covid, we just weren’t looking for it nearly as often before.
nicoburns 5y ago
I've had heart problems to the point that I can't do any exercise more vigorous than walking without getting heart pain severe enough to make me stop immediately, and often suffering from extreme fatigue in the days afterwards. I was previously a reasonably fit 28 year old who regularly danced, occasionally went to the gym etc. It's nothing like depression. The symptoms are very much physical.
Wowfunhappy 5y ago
^ It's worth underscoring here that nocebo symptoms are absolutely real symptoms, they just aren't caused by the thing you think they're caused by! It's not unreasonable to suspect that the nocebo effect is responsible for at least a very large portion of "long COVID" cases, particularly as many associated symptoms, such as brain fog, are very hard to test for!
Jeema101 5y ago
Yes there is: Brain imaging before and after COVID-19 in UK Biobank https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v... Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from COVID-19 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... Long term loss of smell and taste is not a known symptom of stress, anxiety, or depression either as far as I am aware.

phkahler 5y ago

Isn't long Covid caused by damage from the spike proteins? In that case, repeatedly giving people the vaccine might do damage as well since it gets you to produce those spike proteins right?

eecc 5y ago
orders of magnitude less though.
red_trumpet 5y ago
What's your source that spike proteins cause long covid? This article[1] says the cause of long covid is still not clear. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57833394 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57833394
nradov 5y ago
Long COVID isn't a distinct disease, it's just a vague label for a set of non specific symptoms. There is evidence that some cases are caused by re-activation of dormant Epstein-Barr virus infections. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8233978/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8233978/ If proven correct that wouldn't be at all surprising. We already know that major stresses can sometimes reactivate EBV. It might be a good idea to also test all COVID-19 patients for EBV.
undersuit 5y ago
The spike proteins allow Covid to enter your cell where its actual RNA coopts the cellular machinery of the cell to reproduce. After enough copies of the virus are assembled the RNA coopted cell is made to kill itself by self-lysis releasing the new viruses. The spike protein itself is not dangerous.
- singingfish 5y ago
  I think it kind of is because it's got a similar binding affinity to heparin. Heparin is a first responder chemical in the immune system. Coopting a low level part of the immune system like that is rather more dangerous than if it were getting entry via some other mechanism. On the other hand I could be wrong about this.