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> "They are also bigger, lay larger eggs and have smaller brains than their wild cousins - differences that are also seen in chickens. ...Pets tend to have flop

> "They are also bigger, lay larger eggs and have smaller brains than their wild cousins - differences that are also seen in chickens. ...Pets tend to have floppier ears and curlier tails than their wild ancestors. They also have smaller jaws and teeth, white patches on their fur and breed more frequently. This phenomenon is known as 'domestication syndrome'." I am not being glib, but I wonder if this is what happened to humans. allow me to explain. As short as 5,000 years ago, our brains were 10% bigger, our jaws were bigger, and our size was smaller. The former 2 have been associated with diet, but the shrinking brain is still debated. Maybe its simple though. Maybe humans domesticated humans.

nindwen 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-domestication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-domestication
kibwen 5y ago
Let's also keep in mind that brain size is not a proxy for cognitive ability. Ravens appear to be broadly as smart as chimpanzees despite their brains being 1/20th the size. Likewise neanderthals had larger brains than homo sapiens, which didn't stop them from being outcompeted.
- autokad 5y ago
  those are just issues in how intelligence is measured. As far as Neanderthals, its my opinion they were smarter than us. we just came from down south (not effected by sudden surge in ice age) and higher birth rates. The intelligence of neanderthals keeps getting revised up every time we learn something about them.
  - rowanG077 5y ago
    Do you base your opinion on anything?
  - makoConstruct 5y ago
    I've heard that there's archeological evidence that ancient sapiens engaged in long-distance trade, objects brought to places they shouldn't have been. Nothing like that was found with neanderthals. Not sure if this is due to having fewer samples of neanderthals, nor whether this reflects intelligence or something else (I think Harari or someone may have argued that it might be about eusocial myths enabling coordinating larger armies) but that's one contraindication.
- 3pt14159 5y ago
  I'm no where near a subject matter expert, but I thought there was a mild correlation within humans? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_and_intelligence#Brain_volume https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_and_intelligence#... I take your point on ravens and chimps, but surely whales are more intelligent than shrimps.
  - mixmastamyk 5y ago
    Are big people smarter than small people?
    - itsyaboi 5y ago
      As a rule of thumb, yes. (children vs adults)
    - the_jeremy 5y ago
      > Some epidemiological research on the subject has shown that there is a small but statistically significant positive correlation between height and intelligence after controlling for socioeconomic class and parental education [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_and_intelligence
      - makoConstruct 5y ago
        General health is still a probable shared cause here, they're going to need to control for more than just socioeconomic class and parental education. What happens, for instance, if they control for stamina (I'd predict the effect goes away)
    - jhallenworld 5y ago
      "I have no doubt that I am very stupid; but I must confess that I am unable to follow you. For example, how did you deduce that this man was intellectual?" For answer Holmes clapped the hat upon his head. It came right over the forehead and settled upon the bridge of his nose. "It is a question of cubic capacity," said he; "a man with so large a brain must have something in it."
lordnacho 5y ago
There's a funny section in I think Sapiens (Yuval Noah Harari?) where he quips that that wheat domesticated the naked ape. Got him to plow the fields, get rid of the rocks, sew the seeds...
- bts327 5y ago
  I’m not sure where the idea came from, but Michael Pollan has also propagated in his books this idea that human beings have been domesticated by plants. See, The Botany of Desire.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rtkaratekid 5y ago
This idea is approached in an interesting way in the book “Against the Grain” by James C. Scott.
Smithalicious 5y ago
AFAIK essentially yes, this is a popular (?) theory. The benefit of neoteny in humans is the retention of learning abilities, the human ability to learn doesn't decrease as much with age as it does in other animals

nindwen 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-domestication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-domestication

kibwen 5y ago

Let's also keep in mind that brain size is not a proxy for cognitive ability. Ravens appear to be broadly as smart as chimpanzees despite their brains being 1/20th the size. Likewise neanderthals had larger brains than homo sapiens, which didn't stop them from being outcompeted.

autokad 5y ago
those are just issues in how intelligence is measured. As far as Neanderthals, its my opinion they were smarter than us. we just came from down south (not effected by sudden surge in ice age) and higher birth rates. The intelligence of neanderthals keeps getting revised up every time we learn something about them.
- rowanG077 5y ago
  Do you base your opinion on anything?
- makoConstruct 5y ago
  I've heard that there's archeological evidence that ancient sapiens engaged in long-distance trade, objects brought to places they shouldn't have been. Nothing like that was found with neanderthals. Not sure if this is due to having fewer samples of neanderthals, nor whether this reflects intelligence or something else (I think Harari or someone may have argued that it might be about eusocial myths enabling coordinating larger armies) but that's one contraindication.
3pt14159 5y ago
I'm no where near a subject matter expert, but I thought there was a mild correlation within humans? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_and_intelligence#Brain_volume https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_and_intelligence#... I take your point on ravens and chimps, but surely whales are more intelligent than shrimps.
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  Are big people smarter than small people?
  - itsyaboi 5y ago
    As a rule of thumb, yes. (children vs adults)
  - the_jeremy 5y ago
    > Some epidemiological research on the subject has shown that there is a small but statistically significant positive correlation between height and intelligence after controlling for socioeconomic class and parental education [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_and_intelligence
    - makoConstruct 5y ago
      General health is still a probable shared cause here, they're going to need to control for more than just socioeconomic class and parental education. What happens, for instance, if they control for stamina (I'd predict the effect goes away)
  - jhallenworld 5y ago
    "I have no doubt that I am very stupid; but I must confess that I am unable to follow you. For example, how did you deduce that this man was intellectual?" For answer Holmes clapped the hat upon his head. It came right over the forehead and settled upon the bridge of his nose. "It is a question of cubic capacity," said he; "a man with so large a brain must have something in it."

lordnacho 5y ago

There's a funny section in I think Sapiens (Yuval Noah Harari?) where he quips that that wheat domesticated the naked ape. Got him to plow the fields, get rid of the rocks, sew the seeds...

bts327 5y ago
I’m not sure where the idea came from, but Michael Pollan has also propagated in his books this idea that human beings have been domesticated by plants. See, The Botany of Desire.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

rtkaratekid 5y ago

This idea is approached in an interesting way in the book “Against the Grain” by James C. Scott.

Smithalicious 5y ago

AFAIK essentially yes, this is a popular (?) theory. The benefit of neoteny in humans is the retention of learning abilities, the human ability to learn doesn't decrease as much with age as it does in other animals