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With that move I don't see how Apple will be able to refuse when a government asks it to scan for images of Whinnie the Pooh for example. They say they won't bu

by ajnin 5y ago

With that move I don't see how Apple will be able to refuse when a government asks it to scan for images of Whinnie the Pooh for example. They say they won't but they are too reliant on Foxconn's Chinese plants for manufacture, they could easily be blackmailed into compliance. (Android devices with a Chinese OS probably already report a wide array of stuff to the government) This is another step towards total global surveillance of citizens. I don't see what can be done about it, technology makes it possible so it will happen, it is just too juicy for governments, they can't resist it.

bityard 5y ago
You have it the wrong way around, Apple is FoxConn's cash cow. Apple is probably the only company in the world that has the resources to make its devices anywhere in the western world, it's just not as profitable or convenient as their current suppliers.
- shrimp_emoji 5y ago
  Well, they seem to be so reliant on cheap Chinese manufacturing that they're willing to be China's complete bitch. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce...
Grustaf 5y ago
How does this feature relate to scanning for Winnie the Pooh? They already scan and classify ALL your photos locally, not just the ones destined for iCloud, that's a widely touted feature.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  That is a lie - they only scan in your iCloud Photo Library. An external drive? Messages? Not scanned (except for the generic nudity detection system for child accounts that doesn't contact Apple about anything, a separate piece from the CSAM scanner).
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure that image classification (and now, OCR) works locally regardless of whether you have iCloud enabled. But that's not the point, the point is that they have known for a while if you have photos of Winnie the Pooh, trees, lakes etc. That's why you can search your photo library. If they wanted to report that to Xi Jinping, they could just do that. It's unrelated to the CSAM measure.
    - gjsman-1000 5y ago
      And China could have literally ordered this tool to be built at anytime in the last decade. It's not like China can't just order tools like this to be built anyway. Apple didn't give them a new tool that China will abuse. China could just order the tool to be built and abuse it if they desired.
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        Yeah, but most of all this is an incredibly convoluted and inefficient way to spy for the government, and much easier for outsiders to detect.
      - katbyte 5y ago
        China already owns and runs the servers used by iCloud in China, this changes nothing for them.
- captainredbeard 5y ago
  Because Xi Jinping looks like Winnie the Pooh and there's a controversial China meme surrounding this fact.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    I’m aware, but they can just search for that directly, no need for CSAM.
gjsman-1000 5y ago
Apple says their system is designed to prevent totalitarianism by only scanning images that appear in two or more countries' CSAM lists. So if one country sneaks in perfectly licit content, it won't scan for it. Now, you might say that China would force Apple to scan for things anyway - and they might. But at the same time, China could have ordered this at any moment in the last decade. It's not like the Chinese government wouldn't force this tool to be made anyway.
- dnh44 5y ago
  The Chinese government already has full access to all the data of Apple's China user base.
dnh44 5y ago
iCloud in China is already run by a state owned company so at least in the case of China nothing will change. https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/10/technology/apple-china-icloud/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/10/technology/apple-china-iclo...
34679 5y ago
Apple wouldn't be able to tell if it's Whinnie or a polical organizer, because they'll only be provided with hashes of the original images. Any government participating would be able to include any image it wants without Apple's immediate knowledge.
emodendroket 5y ago
Why couldn't they do that before? If Chinese government officials said add content scanning or leave the country there would be no difference. The firewall was always fictive.
zug_zug 5y ago
Agreed. I think the system would be superior if it sent the "naughty" hash-list to the client so that the user has some ability to recognize if the "naughty" list suddenly grows 10x in 1 country, and maybe even identify which material is on it.

by ajnin 5y ago

bityard 5y ago

You have it the wrong way around, Apple is FoxConn's cash cow. Apple is probably the only company in the world that has the resources to make its devices anywhere in the western world, it's just not as profitable or convenient as their current suppliers.

shrimp_emoji 5y ago
Well, they seem to be so reliant on cheap Chinese manufacturing that they're willing to be China's complete bitch. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce...

Grustaf 5y ago

How does this feature relate to scanning for Winnie the Pooh? They already scan and classify ALL your photos locally, not just the ones destined for iCloud, that's a widely touted feature.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
That is a lie - they only scan in your iCloud Photo Library. An external drive? Messages? Not scanned (except for the generic nudity detection system for child accounts that doesn't contact Apple about anything, a separate piece from the CSAM scanner).
- Grustaf 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure that image classification (and now, OCR) works locally regardless of whether you have iCloud enabled. But that's not the point, the point is that they have known for a while if you have photos of Winnie the Pooh, trees, lakes etc. That's why you can search your photo library. If they wanted to report that to Xi Jinping, they could just do that. It's unrelated to the CSAM measure.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    And China could have literally ordered this tool to be built at anytime in the last decade. It's not like China can't just order tools like this to be built anyway. Apple didn't give them a new tool that China will abuse. China could just order the tool to be built and abuse it if they desired.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      Yeah, but most of all this is an incredibly convoluted and inefficient way to spy for the government, and much easier for outsiders to detect.
    - katbyte 5y ago
      China already owns and runs the servers used by iCloud in China, this changes nothing for them.
captainredbeard 5y ago
Because Xi Jinping looks like Winnie the Pooh and there's a controversial China meme surrounding this fact.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  I’m aware, but they can just search for that directly, no need for CSAM.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

Apple says their system is designed to prevent totalitarianism by only scanning images that appear in two or more countries' CSAM lists. So if one country sneaks in perfectly licit content, it won't scan for it. Now, you might say that China would force Apple to scan for things anyway - and they might. But at the same time, China could have ordered this at any moment in the last decade. It's not like the Chinese government wouldn't force this tool to be made anyway.

dnh44 5y ago
The Chinese government already has full access to all the data of Apple's China user base.

dnh44 5y ago

iCloud in China is already run by a state owned company so at least in the case of China nothing will change. https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/10/technology/apple-china-icloud/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/10/technology/apple-china-iclo...

34679 5y ago

Apple wouldn't be able to tell if it's Whinnie or a polical organizer, because they'll only be provided with hashes of the original images. Any government participating would be able to include any image it wants without Apple's immediate knowledge.

emodendroket 5y ago

Why couldn't they do that before? If Chinese government officials said add content scanning or leave the country there would be no difference. The firewall was always fictive.

zug_zug 5y ago

Agreed. I think the system would be superior if it sent the "naughty" hash-list to the client so that the user has some ability to recognize if the "naughty" list suddenly grows 10x in 1 country, and maybe even identify which material is on it.