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If crypto was actually a viable alternative they wouldn't be doing this. I'm not against the promises of crypto - but the tech so far has failed to deliver any

If crypto was actually a viable alternative they wouldn't be doing this. I'm not against the promises of crypto - but the tech so far has failed to deliver anything but a platform to streamline illegal activity, asset speculation bubbles and a whole bunch of wasted energy/hardware along with reliving the problems people had historically with bank fraud in free banking and the likes (banks printing their own notes without cover till you get a bank run - this is why central banks were invented ...)

dvdkon 5y ago
The properties of certain cryptocurrencies that make them good for illegal transactions also make them good for pornography and other "not illegal but touchy" areas.
- moonchrome 5y ago
  Not really - these are high volume low value transactions and need to be low friction. Money laundering and similar illegal transactions are fine with the opposite.
  - dvdkon 5y ago
    The cryptocurrencies I consider viable for this kind of thing (mostly Monero) are actually better for low-value transactions than conventional card payments, since they have a low, fixed transaction cost (well under 0.1USD, try that with VISA/MasterCard). I'm not sure about scaling volume, but the current situation looks promising. Friction is a problem, but I don't see why sending Monero has to be any harder than with conventional payment methods. The hard part is overcoming the network effect of payment cards.
  - fksadfji12 5y ago
    meet the lightning network
lynx234 5y ago
The tech is there but mainstream adoption and understanding is still coming along. It's incredibly easy and cheap to send USDC or DAI to OnlyFans if they accept tokens on a sidechain (like Polygon or Fantom). You don't have to sign up for an account or provide any personal info, just use your wallet to send certain tokens to an address, then you can use that wallet as a sign-in. OnlyFans can then use Coinbase or an off-ramp to go from crypto to fiat. It's a more seamless user experience and solves the payment processing issue. In my opinion it's a matter of educating the masses to a very different method of paying for services and using services (both on the business and consumer side).
- analyst74 5y ago
  Isn't USDC printed out of thin air with no backing? Similar to how private bank money was printed before modern banking regulations. What are the guardrails to prevent bankrun like the wild west days of banking?
  - doomroot 5y ago
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.circle.com/blog/greater-transparency-for-usdc-reserves%3Fhs_amp%3Dtrue https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.circle.com/blog/greater-tra... Do some googling before commenting please.
    - tw04 5y ago
      Telling him to google, then providing exactly one link to the company that created USDC isn't really much of a refute. Maybe a link to an independent audit (as far as I can tell there are none). Much like tether, there is no proof that they have anywhere near the currency they claim and folks that operate in that market are the ones shouting the loudest about the apparent fraud occurring. I've yet to see tether or usdc provide proof otherwise, it always seems to be a "we wouldn't be this big if we didn't have what we say we have" - bernie madoff style. And to get in front of it, an attestation != audit.
  - lynx234 5y ago
    USDT is printed out of thin air (which is why I didn't mention it). USDC is a bit better and more transparent. DAI is decentralized and backed by collateral. There's been a lot of talks of regulating stablecoins to ensure backing, which I don't think is a terrible idea.
redisman 5y ago
There are many cryptos that would be perfectly viable for payments here. XLM, USDC, Polygon for example. I think the investors told them that it’s too niche and they’d rather have credit card payments for whatever remains after the policy change.
- xvector 5y ago
  All of these are literally senseless for buying porn. Are you seriously telling me you want your family and friends to know when you buy something from OF? Monero is really the only thing that makes sense here.
noobermin 5y ago
Honest question, I tried to ask it below: the optics issues of being associated with illegal activity, being a waste of energy and hardware during a chip shortage, as well as the actual reality that most people in crypto are speculators at this point, these seem like issues that crypto advocates can actually recognize and address so crypto can achieve wider adoption. It unfortunately feels like crypto enthusiasts just dismiss these concerns and think they don't matter, which just maintains the status quo with respect to its adoption.
teawrecks 5y ago
The "only people doing illegal stuff use it" point doesn't really hold up when you consider how much energy is going into keeping legal uses less convenient than centralized finance. It's like saying only robbers wear masks, and then we have a pandemic and suddenly everyone does. With the right economic incentives, defi is a tool waiting for the right moment to shine. This could be such a moment.
saurik 5y ago
So, here is the core problem: if you want to do this on mobile... how? You can't do the actual payment parts securely using just a web browser--if you think about it that kind of undermines the whole concept for a lot of people: you would need to host that website somewhere--and then crypto wallets that support dapps and payment processing tend to get banned by Apple, because they provide a way to bypass their cut for services using an app (even if that app is just a browser) :/.
- WC3w6pXxgGd 5y ago
  Cash App, Coinbase, and hundreds of other apps enable crypto to be sent/received.
- Sevii 5y ago
  Metamask and WalletConnect have solved this problem. You can use a browser wallet, or a mobile wallet that connects to your browser.
xvector 5y ago
> If crypto was actually a viable alternative they wouldn't be doing this. Adoption is a thing and takes time. Crypto itself is also a technology still in its infancy with at least a decade+ of engineering remaining to begin to resemble something that everyday people can use, but it's already quite promising.

dvdkon 5y ago

The properties of certain cryptocurrencies that make them good for illegal transactions also make them good for pornography and other "not illegal but touchy" areas.

moonchrome 5y ago
Not really - these are high volume low value transactions and need to be low friction. Money laundering and similar illegal transactions are fine with the opposite.
- dvdkon 5y ago
  The cryptocurrencies I consider viable for this kind of thing (mostly Monero) are actually better for low-value transactions than conventional card payments, since they have a low, fixed transaction cost (well under 0.1USD, try that with VISA/MasterCard). I'm not sure about scaling volume, but the current situation looks promising. Friction is a problem, but I don't see why sending Monero has to be any harder than with conventional payment methods. The hard part is overcoming the network effect of payment cards.
- fksadfji12 5y ago
  meet the lightning network

lynx234 5y ago

The tech is there but mainstream adoption and understanding is still coming along. It's incredibly easy and cheap to send USDC or DAI to OnlyFans if they accept tokens on a sidechain (like Polygon or Fantom). You don't have to sign up for an account or provide any personal info, just use your wallet to send certain tokens to an address, then you can use that wallet as a sign-in. OnlyFans can then use Coinbase or an off-ramp to go from crypto to fiat. It's a more seamless user experience and solves the payment processing issue. In my opinion it's a matter of educating the masses to a very different method of paying for services and using services (both on the business and consumer side).

analyst74 5y ago
Isn't USDC printed out of thin air with no backing? Similar to how private bank money was printed before modern banking regulations. What are the guardrails to prevent bankrun like the wild west days of banking?
- doomroot 5y ago
  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.circle.com/blog/greater-transparency-for-usdc-reserves%3Fhs_amp%3Dtrue https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.circle.com/blog/greater-tra... Do some googling before commenting please.
  - tw04 5y ago
    Telling him to google, then providing exactly one link to the company that created USDC isn't really much of a refute. Maybe a link to an independent audit (as far as I can tell there are none). Much like tether, there is no proof that they have anywhere near the currency they claim and folks that operate in that market are the ones shouting the loudest about the apparent fraud occurring. I've yet to see tether or usdc provide proof otherwise, it always seems to be a "we wouldn't be this big if we didn't have what we say we have" - bernie madoff style. And to get in front of it, an attestation != audit.
- lynx234 5y ago
  USDT is printed out of thin air (which is why I didn't mention it). USDC is a bit better and more transparent. DAI is decentralized and backed by collateral. There's been a lot of talks of regulating stablecoins to ensure backing, which I don't think is a terrible idea.

redisman 5y ago

There are many cryptos that would be perfectly viable for payments here. XLM, USDC, Polygon for example. I think the investors told them that it’s too niche and they’d rather have credit card payments for whatever remains after the policy change.

xvector 5y ago
All of these are literally senseless for buying porn. Are you seriously telling me you want your family and friends to know when you buy something from OF? Monero is really the only thing that makes sense here.

noobermin 5y ago

Honest question, I tried to ask it below: the optics issues of being associated with illegal activity, being a waste of energy and hardware during a chip shortage, as well as the actual reality that most people in crypto are speculators at this point, these seem like issues that crypto advocates can actually recognize and address so crypto can achieve wider adoption. It unfortunately feels like crypto enthusiasts just dismiss these concerns and think they don't matter, which just maintains the status quo with respect to its adoption.

teawrecks 5y ago

The "only people doing illegal stuff use it" point doesn't really hold up when you consider how much energy is going into keeping legal uses less convenient than centralized finance. It's like saying only robbers wear masks, and then we have a pandemic and suddenly everyone does. With the right economic incentives, defi is a tool waiting for the right moment to shine. This could be such a moment.

saurik 5y ago

So, here is the core problem: if you want to do this on mobile... how? You can't do the actual payment parts securely using just a web browser--if you think about it that kind of undermines the whole concept for a lot of people: you would need to host that website somewhere--and then crypto wallets that support dapps and payment processing tend to get banned by Apple, because they provide a way to bypass their cut for services using an app (even if that app is just a browser) :/.

WC3w6pXxgGd 5y ago
Cash App, Coinbase, and hundreds of other apps enable crypto to be sent/received.
Sevii 5y ago
Metamask and WalletConnect have solved this problem. You can use a browser wallet, or a mobile wallet that connects to your browser.

xvector 5y ago

> If crypto was actually a viable alternative they wouldn't be doing this. Adoption is a thing and takes time. Crypto itself is also a technology still in its infancy with at least a decade+ of engineering remaining to begin to resemble something that everyday people can use, but it's already quite promising.