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We do know that Apple has been scanning email attachments sent via iCloud email. I don't think it's ever been claimed that Apple has ever scanned anyone's iClou

We do know that Apple has been scanning email attachments sent via iCloud email. I don't think it's ever been claimed that Apple has ever scanned anyone's iCloud Photo Library. Ethics aside, on-device scanning has the benefit of Constitutional protection, at least in the USA. Because the searching is being performed on private property, any attempt by the Government to try to expand the scope of searches would be a clear-cut 4th Amendment violation. (Whereas if the scanning is done in the cloud, Government can compel searches and that would fall under the "third party doctrine" which is an end-run around the 4th Amendment.)

Alupis 5y ago
> Because the searching is being performed on private property, It's it though? The device someone bought 2 years ago suddenly starts reporting them to the FBI's Anti-CSAM unit without the owners realistic consent does seem like a run-around to unpermissioned government searches. It's not reasonable to say "throw away your $1200 device if you don't consent", is it? Nor can a person reasonably avoid iOS updates that force this feature to be active. > any attempt by the Government to try to expand the scope of searches We've seen private companies willfully censor individuals at the government's behest under the current administration - will Apple begin expanding the search and reporting mechanisms just to stay in whatever administration's good grace? Like I said, this is extremely out of character, and very off-brand for Apple. Why would someone trust Apple going forward? Even Google's Android doesn't snitch on it's owners to law enforcement... Setting aside all the ways for nefarious actors to abuse this system and sic LE on innocent individuals.
- simondotau 5y ago
  > It's it though? Yes. Your phone is your private property, just like your house or your car. Searching your private property requires a warrant or reasonable suspicion, otherwise it's a 4th Amendment violation. This twitter thread is worth a read. https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1424873629003702273 https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/14248736290037022...
  - Alupis 5y ago
    So, what does a person do if they do not consent to this search? Tough? You can't realistically avoid the iOS update. Apple has effectively given consent on your behalf... How will that fly?
    - simondotau 5y ago
      If you do not consent to having your photos scanned for CSAM, turn off iCloud Photo Library. Same as how you opt out of CSAM scanning of your photo library on Android. If you're concerned about other forms of scanning compelled by the Government, you never consented to the search. So even if Apple complied, the search is invalid and cannot be used to prosecute you.
      - Alupis 5y ago
        It does not appear one can opt out certain folders from this scan. If you enable iCloud backups, it's scans the entire shebang. As previously mentioned, Android doesn't scan all photos on your device... Google scans content uploaded to their servers. Which is reasonable... It's their servers, they can host what they want. Your iPhone is your iPhone.
        simondotau 5y ago
        > If you enable iCloud backups, it's scans the entire shebang. Citation?
        Alupis 5y ago
        Do I need one? Where in iOS can you choose which folders to opt-into CSAM scanning? I only see an all-or-nothing option for iCloud photos.
        simondotau 5y ago
        Yes, you do need a citation, because I've not heard Apple (or anyone else) claim that iCloud Backups or iCloud Drive are being subject to CSAM scans. From everything I've read, from Apple and other sources, if the photo is about to be uploaded to iCloud Photo Library then it is scanned for CSAM. If it's not, it isn't.

Alupis 5y ago

> Because the searching is being performed on private property, It's it though? The device someone bought 2 years ago suddenly starts reporting them to the FBI's Anti-CSAM unit without the owners realistic consent does seem like a run-around to unpermissioned government searches. It's not reasonable to say "throw away your $1200 device if you don't consent", is it? Nor can a person reasonably avoid iOS updates that force this feature to be active. > any attempt by the Government to try to expand the scope of searches We've seen private companies willfully censor individuals at the government's behest under the current administration - will Apple begin expanding the search and reporting mechanisms just to stay in whatever administration's good grace? Like I said, this is extremely out of character, and very off-brand for Apple. Why would someone trust Apple going forward? Even Google's Android doesn't snitch on it's owners to law enforcement... Setting aside all the ways for nefarious actors to abuse this system and sic LE on innocent individuals.

simondotau 5y ago
> It's it though? Yes. Your phone is your private property, just like your house or your car. Searching your private property requires a warrant or reasonable suspicion, otherwise it's a 4th Amendment violation. This twitter thread is worth a read. https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1424873629003702273 https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/14248736290037022...
- Alupis 5y ago
  So, what does a person do if they do not consent to this search? Tough? You can't realistically avoid the iOS update. Apple has effectively given consent on your behalf... How will that fly?
  - simondotau 5y ago
    If you do not consent to having your photos scanned for CSAM, turn off iCloud Photo Library. Same as how you opt out of CSAM scanning of your photo library on Android. If you're concerned about other forms of scanning compelled by the Government, you never consented to the search. So even if Apple complied, the search is invalid and cannot be used to prosecute you.
    - Alupis 5y ago
      It does not appear one can opt out certain folders from this scan. If you enable iCloud backups, it's scans the entire shebang. As previously mentioned, Android doesn't scan all photos on your device... Google scans content uploaded to their servers. Which is reasonable... It's their servers, they can host what they want. Your iPhone is your iPhone.
      - simondotau 5y ago
        > If you enable iCloud backups, it's scans the entire shebang. Citation?
        Alupis 5y ago
        Do I need one? Where in iOS can you choose which folders to opt-into CSAM scanning? I only see an all-or-nothing option for iCloud photos.
        simondotau 5y ago
        Yes, you do need a citation, because I've not heard Apple (or anyone else) claim that iCloud Backups or iCloud Drive are being subject to CSAM scans. From everything I've read, from Apple and other sources, if the photo is about to be uploaded to iCloud Photo Library then it is scanned for CSAM. If it's not, it isn't.