3 ms·

> Apple's solution on this requires client and server communication to flag an image Well of course it does, would be a very pointless surveillance system if i

> Apple's solution on this requires client and server communication to flag an image Well of course it does, would be a very pointless surveillance system if it scanned for stuff and then threw away the result. I've also read the technical papers and all other info put out by Apple so far and my takeaway is that the system is generic, it's not designed specifically for images but can be used with any old fingerprint and arbitrary data can be uploaded in the "security vouchers". It does not take much imagination to see how it could be used to mass-surveil E2EE communications, hook it into Siri's intent system, add a bunch of banned intents and throw the message into the voucher. If a threshold of bad intents is reached a reviewer will check your messages to verify that you actually had some bad intent before dispatching a patrol to your location.

sparker72678 5y ago
Sure, you're totally right. But right now all that data is available to Apple. If they wanted to they could just generate a set of keys, replicate one of your iCloud devices, and send all your iMessages to a 3rd party, etc. If CSAM scanning is coming, show me a better solution. I don't think there's a world ahead of us that doesn't include it for all platform-hosted photos.
- almostdigital 5y ago
  I reject the premise that CSAM scanning is a solution to anything, especially if the goal is to E2EE encrypt the rest of the photos. My understanding from following this debacle is that law-enforcement don't have resources to investigate everyone who just have CSAM they focus on people who match and have other photos of novel abuse they can track down, and here they will only get an account name and a list of 30 CSAM photos the user had. All this system will do is drive up Apples numbers on a "total child abuse found" scoreboard and do very little to help any actual children in need.
  - sparker72678 5y ago
    I agree it’s not a real solution to a crime problem. Still seems to be the direction the political winds are blowing.
    - joe_the_user 5y ago
      Accepting this stuff allowing yourself to blown by these evil winds, don't do that. Part of the reason for these voluntary scans is because the state would have a difficult time implementing universal spyware on its own and it needs Apple for this. This stuff is by no means certain and how "we" helps determine whether it happens. Also, the state has secretly spied and attempted to legitimatize universal spying but we've had push back on many occasions. We should keep that up.

sparker72678 5y ago

Sure, you're totally right. But right now all that data is available to Apple. If they wanted to they could just generate a set of keys, replicate one of your iCloud devices, and send all your iMessages to a 3rd party, etc. If CSAM scanning is coming, show me a better solution. I don't think there's a world ahead of us that doesn't include it for all platform-hosted photos.

almostdigital 5y ago
I reject the premise that CSAM scanning is a solution to anything, especially if the goal is to E2EE encrypt the rest of the photos. My understanding from following this debacle is that law-enforcement don't have resources to investigate everyone who just have CSAM they focus on people who match and have other photos of novel abuse they can track down, and here they will only get an account name and a list of 30 CSAM photos the user had. All this system will do is drive up Apples numbers on a "total child abuse found" scoreboard and do very little to help any actual children in need.
- sparker72678 5y ago
  I agree it’s not a real solution to a crime problem. Still seems to be the direction the political winds are blowing.
  - joe_the_user 5y ago
    Accepting this stuff allowing yourself to blown by these evil winds, don't do that. Part of the reason for these voluntary scans is because the state would have a difficult time implementing universal spyware on its own and it needs Apple for this. This stuff is by no means certain and how "we" helps determine whether it happens. Also, the state has secretly spied and attempted to legitimatize universal spying but we've had push back on many occasions. We should keep that up.