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Hopefully they keep their word about being more moderate than their previous time in power and if so, maybe the people of afghanistan could attain some well des

Hopefully they keep their word about being more moderate than their previous time in power and if so, maybe the people of afghanistan could attain some well deserved peace and prosperity. I have my doubts that leaders of a battle hardened organization like theirs can be moderate instead of hardline/ultra conservative, but I truly hope they are.

tw04 5y ago
Given that they have already stated they'll protect women's rights "within the limits of Islam" - I wouldn't hold your breath. The "limits of Islam" was the excuse for the abhorrent treatment of women the first time they were in power.
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  Please don't blame Islam for this. There are oppressive fundamentalist Christian organizations that also want to actively keep women barefoot and pregnant. The struggle for equality continues even in developed/Western countries where even relatively well-paid and famous women tend to make less than their male counterparts and have added their testimony to the #MeToo movement.
  - j_walter 5y ago
    Those organizations don't have the widespread adoption that the extreme Islamists do...which is the Taliban and they now control a country of 38M people. What you are talking about is small cults in isolated pockets of society.
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      I appear to be the highest ranked woman on HN and the only openly female member to have ever made the leaderboard -- twice under different handles. I was homeless for nearly six years and actively participated here for about 4.5 years of that. I remain dirt poor. I am currently flat broke (by which I mean I don't expect to eat today). No matter how neutrally, respectfully and unaccusingly I do it, whenever I talk about how my gender has interfered with my ability to establish an adequate income via HN where plenty of men manage to make scads of money, I get nothing but flak. I don't have a lot of patience for people on HN being on their high horse about women's rights issues. This forum can't clean up its own messes, but boy can people here point fingers. Color me unimpressed. And also uninterested in arguing it further because it never does me any good. It just aggravates the men who don't want to hear that sexism and misogyny are alive and well and most of them are actively part of the problem but want to think they are not. Aggravating the men who like to see themselves as "good guys" inevitably means I get treated worse, not better.
      - j_walter 5y ago
        In no way was I saying that there is no sexism or misogyny going outside of Afghanistan, but trying to compare being held back in your career with being unable to leave your home without a male relative is making light of the plight that the women are now subject to under the Taliban. I certainly can't speak for your own situation or whatever you have endured, but my response was to your "Don't blame Islam"...and that is exactly what the Taliban is using to control women in this aspect so your comment doesn't make any sense to me. Women had been making progress in Afghanistan for the last 20 years because of the progress of separating Islam from the law...were they 100% equals of men, obviously not...but hundreds of times better than what they are going to be now.
        DoreenMichele 5y ago
        but trying to compare being held back in your career with being unable to leave your home without a male relative Maybe you didn't hear me. Let me say it again: I was homeless for years while racking up karma here left and right. I hit the leaderboard the first time about a month after I got back into housing, mostly because I paid off my student loan not because my income went up a lot. I remain dirt poor and I'm currently broke and don't expect to eat today. This is a survival issue for me. I'm not expecting charity and I don't need much more earned income. But I can't seem to arrange it, no matter what I do.
        j_walter 5y ago
        Sounds like your mind is made up and you seem to have a serious dislike for comments that you are skeptical of. You don't know me and I don't really care about what you think of my stand on women's rights based on a comment that said you shouldn't confuse the current Taliban situation with fundamental Christians or the #MeToo movement. I could honestly care less about your current situation and how that somehow translates to my comments. I have done nothing to you so lashing out at me and using your situation as an excuse is ridiculous. I could care less if you are a brand new member or someone who hit the leaderboard...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - LaMarseillaise 5y ago
    > There are oppressive fundamentalist Christian organizations I suspect that if they were in power, they would justify their actions as being ‘within the limits of Christianity’. I do not think tw04 was blaming Islam - the quotes indicate to me that this is how the Taliban sees it.
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      I hope you are right. But this is a mostly Western forum. It's easily misconstrued as being the fault of Islam if you don't make a concerted effort to make that distinction crystal clear. Thank you for pointing that out though.
      - bostonsre 5y ago
        Their spokesperson basically said women would be allowed to go to school, work, hold office and similar but it definitely does not sound like complete freedom since they would need to wear the head scarfs (not burkas) . When pressed, his justification was Islam. I truly hope they will be at least that moderate and not do what they did the last time they were in power. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-58223530 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-58223530
  - foolinaround 5y ago
    Have you projected your hatred of Christianity to compare the Taliban to them? Can you cite examples in good faith? How much power do these organizations have, and what is their support among the local populace?
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      I don't hate Christianity. The Taliban is not Islam.
      - foolinaround 5y ago
        ok, within a local populace, what does the taliban version have on Afghanistan vs an extremist Christian group in a western country. the reference was uncalled for.
- julienfr112 5y ago
  considering that women have rights is already quite a progress !!
Leherenn 5y ago
I was quite impressed at their competence and moderation during the reconquest of Afghanistan. They managed to take the country swiftly, with minimal bloodshed/destruction and while keeping some existing structure/bureaucracy in place with a relatively smooth passation of power. The whole "siege" of Kaboul was a masterstroke, let the West and those that want to leave, leave in peace, don't do anything rash, secure the capital as the government/NATO troops retreat, ensure the peace and calm, don't impose your new measures all in a sudden, try to get back to "normal" as quickly as possible, .... At this point, they have international legitimacy: the West gave them the country knowingly and unless the Taliban do something particularly stupid, they aren't coming back anytime soon, China and Russia look keen to deal with them, the former Afghan government yielded the power "gracefully". If internal strife is kept minimal, at this point they have a strong and stable platform to change things. Let's hope they use this newfound stability for the better of the whole population and have a Vietnam-like trajectory.

tw04 5y ago

Given that they have already stated they'll protect women's rights "within the limits of Islam" - I wouldn't hold your breath. The "limits of Islam" was the excuse for the abhorrent treatment of women the first time they were in power.

DoreenMichele 5y ago
Please don't blame Islam for this. There are oppressive fundamentalist Christian organizations that also want to actively keep women barefoot and pregnant. The struggle for equality continues even in developed/Western countries where even relatively well-paid and famous women tend to make less than their male counterparts and have added their testimony to the #MeToo movement.
- j_walter 5y ago
  Those organizations don't have the widespread adoption that the extreme Islamists do...which is the Taliban and they now control a country of 38M people. What you are talking about is small cults in isolated pockets of society.
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    I appear to be the highest ranked woman on HN and the only openly female member to have ever made the leaderboard -- twice under different handles. I was homeless for nearly six years and actively participated here for about 4.5 years of that. I remain dirt poor. I am currently flat broke (by which I mean I don't expect to eat today). No matter how neutrally, respectfully and unaccusingly I do it, whenever I talk about how my gender has interfered with my ability to establish an adequate income via HN where plenty of men manage to make scads of money, I get nothing but flak. I don't have a lot of patience for people on HN being on their high horse about women's rights issues. This forum can't clean up its own messes, but boy can people here point fingers. Color me unimpressed. And also uninterested in arguing it further because it never does me any good. It just aggravates the men who don't want to hear that sexism and misogyny are alive and well and most of them are actively part of the problem but want to think they are not. Aggravating the men who like to see themselves as "good guys" inevitably means I get treated worse, not better.
    - j_walter 5y ago
      In no way was I saying that there is no sexism or misogyny going outside of Afghanistan, but trying to compare being held back in your career with being unable to leave your home without a male relative is making light of the plight that the women are now subject to under the Taliban. I certainly can't speak for your own situation or whatever you have endured, but my response was to your "Don't blame Islam"...and that is exactly what the Taliban is using to control women in this aspect so your comment doesn't make any sense to me. Women had been making progress in Afghanistan for the last 20 years because of the progress of separating Islam from the law...were they 100% equals of men, obviously not...but hundreds of times better than what they are going to be now.
      - DoreenMichele 5y ago
        but trying to compare being held back in your career with being unable to leave your home without a male relative Maybe you didn't hear me. Let me say it again: I was homeless for years while racking up karma here left and right. I hit the leaderboard the first time about a month after I got back into housing, mostly because I paid off my student loan not because my income went up a lot. I remain dirt poor and I'm currently broke and don't expect to eat today. This is a survival issue for me. I'm not expecting charity and I don't need much more earned income. But I can't seem to arrange it, no matter what I do.
        j_walter 5y ago
        Sounds like your mind is made up and you seem to have a serious dislike for comments that you are skeptical of. You don't know me and I don't really care about what you think of my stand on women's rights based on a comment that said you shouldn't confuse the current Taliban situation with fundamental Christians or the #MeToo movement. I could honestly care less about your current situation and how that somehow translates to my comments. I have done nothing to you so lashing out at me and using your situation as an excuse is ridiculous. I could care less if you are a brand new member or someone who hit the leaderboard...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- LaMarseillaise 5y ago
  > There are oppressive fundamentalist Christian organizations I suspect that if they were in power, they would justify their actions as being ‘within the limits of Christianity’. I do not think tw04 was blaming Islam - the quotes indicate to me that this is how the Taliban sees it.
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    I hope you are right. But this is a mostly Western forum. It's easily misconstrued as being the fault of Islam if you don't make a concerted effort to make that distinction crystal clear. Thank you for pointing that out though.
    - bostonsre 5y ago
      Their spokesperson basically said women would be allowed to go to school, work, hold office and similar but it definitely does not sound like complete freedom since they would need to wear the head scarfs (not burkas) . When pressed, his justification was Islam. I truly hope they will be at least that moderate and not do what they did the last time they were in power. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-58223530 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-58223530
- foolinaround 5y ago
  Have you projected your hatred of Christianity to compare the Taliban to them? Can you cite examples in good faith? How much power do these organizations have, and what is their support among the local populace?
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    I don't hate Christianity. The Taliban is not Islam.
    - foolinaround 5y ago
      ok, within a local populace, what does the taliban version have on Afghanistan vs an extremist Christian group in a western country. the reference was uncalled for.
julienfr112 5y ago
considering that women have rights is already quite a progress !!

Leherenn 5y ago

I was quite impressed at their competence and moderation during the reconquest of Afghanistan. They managed to take the country swiftly, with minimal bloodshed/destruction and while keeping some existing structure/bureaucracy in place with a relatively smooth passation of power. The whole "siege" of Kaboul was a masterstroke, let the West and those that want to leave, leave in peace, don't do anything rash, secure the capital as the government/NATO troops retreat, ensure the peace and calm, don't impose your new measures all in a sudden, try to get back to "normal" as quickly as possible, .... At this point, they have international legitimacy: the West gave them the country knowingly and unless the Taliban do something particularly stupid, they aren't coming back anytime soon, China and Russia look keen to deal with them, the former Afghan government yielded the power "gracefully". If internal strife is kept minimal, at this point they have a strong and stable platform to change things. Let's hope they use this newfound stability for the better of the whole population and have a Vietnam-like trajectory.