6 ms·

A vegan diet could affect your intelligence (2020)

stevespang 5y ago
Excess iron added to food products under law likely causes unneeded free radical production and aging in anyone who is not a menstruating female. Taurine is not an essential amino acid. Vit. B12, choline from lethicin, EPA and DHA in Fish oil all obtainable in supplements which I and many vegetarians already consume. Suspicious why the author doesn't discuss cholesterol in meat and dairy ? Excessive cholesterol consumption is identified as the #1 causation of aging and disease in "The China Study" which was a 20 year long research project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study The New York Times says of The China study: "The study can be considered the Grand Prix of epidemiology".
dleacock 5y ago
B12 only exists in meat because the animals are fed supplements. Also there is vegan sources of Omega-3 found in algae. That's where salmon get their omega-3 from.
- sterlind 5y ago
  Animals don't produce B12 but they definitely contain it. Otherwise they'd be dead.. they need it as much as we do.
stefantalpalaru 5y ago
> An earlier version of this article stated omega-3 generally only occurs in animal products. The article has been corrected to make clear there are three types of omega-3 fatty acids and that one of these, ALA, is found mainly in plants. "very little ALA is converted to EPA and even less, if any to DHA" (Sanderson et al., 2002) The only vegetal source of bioavailable omega-3 fatty acids seems to be algae oil. Unfortunately, very few vegans are aware of that.
SuperNinKenDo 5y ago
It's weird that the article mentions supplements so often yet reads as if the author had never heard of them or considered their use to make up any deficiencies in a vegan/vegetarian diet. As someone diagnosed with a serious iron deficiency as a child that later went vegetarian, I never noticed an issue, however immediately noticed after taking creatine for work outs that my mental faculties improved. People just need to pay attention to their bodies and monds; most people would be better off if they did, not simply vegetarians.
delibes 5y ago
"Whatever the truth is, isn’t it about time we found out?" Most other vegans I know seem to be very aware of the nutrition issues, and take EPA/DHA supplements and extra vitamins. "Nootch" - nutritional yeast - is also a very common ingredient used to boost vitamins and minerals. It's of course hard to be 100% sure what's safe, but then eating meat also has it's risks - heart disease, cancer, e. coli. etc - as well as environmental costs. Going vegan is quite a big step, and most people would benefit from eating a lot less meat.
- metalliqaz 5y ago
  "most people would benefit from eating a lot less meat." This is so true, as long as they are replacing it with fruits and vegetables. Many vegans are going to vegan anyway because of the ethical arguments. But holy hell, the western diet is severely lacking in vegetables. If people ate lots of meat, but mixed with an equal proportion of veggies, they would be a lot healthier. But nobody does. It's highly processed grains and oils. Literally poison. Getting your typical American to simply eat less meat would probably result in a large uptick in consumption of processed corn products. Health would not improve.
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    > the western diet is severely lacking in vegetables The mediterranean diet has plenty and it is "western". Maybe you mean the american diet?
    - metalliqaz 5y ago
      Perhaps. I don't really know how these terms are defined. However I recall reading that American/British/Australian eating habits have invaded "Mediterranean" areas and are having the same negative effects.
      - spicymaki 5y ago
        Those same bad eating habits have also invaded China with dire consequences.
inpdx 5y ago
The only kids I know who were raised vegan have excelled in school, the older one becoming valedictorian.
StopTheWorld 5y ago
A poor vegan diet can affect your health just as a poor non-vegan diet can affect your health. Three years ago the CDC said over 42% of Americans are overweight - most of them are not vegans, and this is often due to a poor diet. The article mentions B12, and it has been known since the 1930s (and before that to some extent) that people need to eat foods with vitamin B12. Vegans and vegetarians need to make sure they get enough B12 and other things, and anyone who has sought to read about a good vegan diet for decades has known this. Just as people know that many non-vegan American diets tend to be too high in saturated fat, sodium, simple sugars etc. The article mentions Gandhi. Many in India have been vegetarian for millennia, including many Brahmin. It seems to have worked for them over the past 3000 years. That vegans need to make sure they get B12 and the like or they will eventually suffer ill effects is not new information, it has been known for a long time. This whole thing really reads like FUD.
- HKH2 5y ago
  Americans are overweight because of carbs. I've seen vegans on YouTube putting sugar into banana milkshakes of all things, so I'm led to believe there are quite a few ethical vegans who don't have such a concern for their health.
  - avmich 5y ago
    There is a diet, where, in addition to eating vegan, SOFAS products - salt, oil, flour, alcohol, sugar - are to be avoided. Some also avoid "highly processed foods". I guess those who follow these avoid some carb issues.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  > A poor vegan diet can affect your health just as a poor non-vegan diet can affect your health. Spot on. Plenty of people have poor diets due to habits (e.g. way too much meat) or poverty (e.g. unbalanced diet). The article is clearly cherry-picking examples of uninformed or poor vegans while also ignoring how unhealthy other diets can be. (And no, I'm not vegan myself)
  - 5y ago
after_care 5y ago
Long time vegan and successful knowledge worker here. I think this study does not closely reflect a modern western vegan diet. 1. There was no supplementation. A modern vegan should be supplementing or eating foods fortified in B6, B12, D, and DHA/DPA. This type of advice is really common among vegan resources and many vegan foods will be fortified with these types of vitamins (DHA/DPA is a bit more rare). There are non-animal sources for all of these vitamins. There is some debate on if DHA/DPA is as effective as consuming Omega 3 directly. Omega 3s can be found in adequate amounts inside many types of seeds, and seeds will have other valuable nutrients as well. 2. The study put people on a diet of soup with meat, soup with milk, or soup with oil. Oil clearly has the least amount of protein and nutrients compared to the other three. In real life humans have better diet choices. 3. The BBC article has a lot of evolutionary arguments for eating meat. In my mind historical dietary practices is as irrelevant as historical medical practices. Modern humans live under such different circumstances. We have a massive food surplus, our life span is 2x, our lifestyle is highly sedentary, we have access to a much greater variety of food and we have a much better understanding of nutrition and human biology. “This is the way things have always been done” is not a good enough reason for me to base my health choices on, and diet is one of the biggest health choices you can make. Plant based foods are healthy for the human body, significantly better for the environment, and more compassionate to all life.
- dleacock 5y ago
  I agree and to add to your third point... weren't we eating plants long before we started eating meat as primates? I feel like the evolutionary argument shows that our bodies are more aligned with a plant based diet.
  - GravitasFailure 5y ago
    Whatever human ancestor was a pure herbivore was some millions of years ago, and in the process we started to rely on meat for nutrients such as B12 and creatine. We also absorb heme iron, which is exclusively found in meat, far better than plant sources of iron, while our stomach acidity is closer to vultures and owls than other primates. I very much doubt humans could survive without at least some meat without agriculture.
hirundo 5y ago
I was on a strict raw vegan diet for about nine months, and the primary reason I stopped was "brain fog". I just couldn't think and didn't want to, compared to before, and adding meat to my diet resolved it within a week or so. This is a common story among the people I met in that community. I don't know how much of this experience was due to the "raw" or "strict" parts. For all I know I would have done fine as cooked-food vegan or an oreos and fritos vegan. I transitioned to all carnivore 11 months ago and have not had similar health problems. Or any health problems that I can attribute to the diet. This line from the article nicely summarizes my current point of view: > and what better way to find the enormous array of fats, amino acids, vitamins and minerals these fastidious organs require, than by feasting on animals which have already painstakingly collected or made them. If you're seeking the most dense and complete nutrition your quest will tend to lead you toward organ meats rather than plants.
- spicymaki 5y ago
  Isn’t that a bit extreme? Meat is contains saturated fat, cholesterol, and is carcinogenic in many forms so you may be harming your health long term. Plant based foods also contain nutrients you cannot obtain from meat alone. You are also missing fiber which used to manage blood sugar, cholesterol, and improves colon health. Then there is ethical and environmental issue. The latest IPPC report should give you pause. Raw vegan is problematic since cooking food releases nutrients. Many raw vegans refuse to supplement as well, which is unsustainable.
somewhereoutth 5y ago
Much as with anti-vax, veganism is more about maintaining an illusion of personal control in a world where really we have very little, than actually saving animals. (I will leave to one side the social signalling aspect, which again has absolutely nothing to do with animals) (And of course other people have to bend over to accommodate your foible, or otherwise you can feel justifiably aggrieved - a win all around!) Farm animals can be understood as devices for changing things we can't eat into things we can. Without them a large majority of the human population would starve. Having said all that, we do eat far too much meat, and there is no reason to be more than necessarily horrible to said animals.
- DangitBobby 5y ago
  > veganism is more about maintaining an illusion of personal control in a world where really we have very little, than actually saving animals Sounds like you've got it all figured out.
- spicymaki 5y ago
  Personal control (illusory or not) is what separates humans from animals. The world cannot sustain meat production at scale. If there is magic nutrients in meat that currently can’t be replicated by a vegan diet via supplements (I am not aware of any), we better figure it out soon.
- kwertyoowiyop 5y ago
  > Much as with anti-vax, veganism is more about maintaining an illusion of personal control in a world where really we have very little, than actually saving animals. Citation needed.

Excess iron added to food products under law likely causes unneeded free radical production and aging in anyone who is not a menstruating female. Taurine is not an essential amino acid. Vit. B12, choline from lethicin, EPA and DHA in Fish oil all obtainable in supplements which I and many vegetarians already consume. Suspicious why the author doesn't discuss cholesterol in meat and dairy ? Excessive cholesterol consumption is identified as the #1 causation of aging and disease in "The China Study" which was a 20 year long research project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study The New York Times says of The China study: "The study can be considered the Grand Prix of epidemiology".

dleacock 5y ago

B12 only exists in meat because the animals are fed supplements. Also there is vegan sources of Omega-3 found in algae. That's where salmon get their omega-3 from.

sterlind 5y ago
Animals don't produce B12 but they definitely contain it. Otherwise they'd be dead.. they need it as much as we do.

stefantalpalaru 5y ago

> An earlier version of this article stated omega-3 generally only occurs in animal products. The article has been corrected to make clear there are three types of omega-3 fatty acids and that one of these, ALA, is found mainly in plants. "very little ALA is converted to EPA and even less, if any to DHA" (Sanderson et al., 2002) The only vegetal source of bioavailable omega-3 fatty acids seems to be algae oil. Unfortunately, very few vegans are aware of that.

SuperNinKenDo 5y ago

It's weird that the article mentions supplements so often yet reads as if the author had never heard of them or considered their use to make up any deficiencies in a vegan/vegetarian diet. As someone diagnosed with a serious iron deficiency as a child that later went vegetarian, I never noticed an issue, however immediately noticed after taking creatine for work outs that my mental faculties improved. People just need to pay attention to their bodies and monds; most people would be better off if they did, not simply vegetarians.

delibes 5y ago

"Whatever the truth is, isn’t it about time we found out?" Most other vegans I know seem to be very aware of the nutrition issues, and take EPA/DHA supplements and extra vitamins. "Nootch" - nutritional yeast - is also a very common ingredient used to boost vitamins and minerals. It's of course hard to be 100% sure what's safe, but then eating meat also has it's risks - heart disease, cancer, e. coli. etc - as well as environmental costs. Going vegan is quite a big step, and most people would benefit from eating a lot less meat.

metalliqaz 5y ago
"most people would benefit from eating a lot less meat." This is so true, as long as they are replacing it with fruits and vegetables. Many vegans are going to vegan anyway because of the ethical arguments. But holy hell, the western diet is severely lacking in vegetables. If people ate lots of meat, but mixed with an equal proportion of veggies, they would be a lot healthier. But nobody does. It's highly processed grains and oils. Literally poison. Getting your typical American to simply eat less meat would probably result in a large uptick in consumption of processed corn products. Health would not improve.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  > the western diet is severely lacking in vegetables The mediterranean diet has plenty and it is "western". Maybe you mean the american diet?
  - metalliqaz 5y ago
    Perhaps. I don't really know how these terms are defined. However I recall reading that American/British/Australian eating habits have invaded "Mediterranean" areas and are having the same negative effects.
    - spicymaki 5y ago
      Those same bad eating habits have also invaded China with dire consequences.

inpdx 5y ago

The only kids I know who were raised vegan have excelled in school, the older one becoming valedictorian.

StopTheWorld 5y ago

A poor vegan diet can affect your health just as a poor non-vegan diet can affect your health. Three years ago the CDC said over 42% of Americans are overweight - most of them are not vegans, and this is often due to a poor diet. The article mentions B12, and it has been known since the 1930s (and before that to some extent) that people need to eat foods with vitamin B12. Vegans and vegetarians need to make sure they get enough B12 and other things, and anyone who has sought to read about a good vegan diet for decades has known this. Just as people know that many non-vegan American diets tend to be too high in saturated fat, sodium, simple sugars etc. The article mentions Gandhi. Many in India have been vegetarian for millennia, including many Brahmin. It seems to have worked for them over the past 3000 years. That vegans need to make sure they get B12 and the like or they will eventually suffer ill effects is not new information, it has been known for a long time. This whole thing really reads like FUD.

HKH2 5y ago
Americans are overweight because of carbs. I've seen vegans on YouTube putting sugar into banana milkshakes of all things, so I'm led to believe there are quite a few ethical vegans who don't have such a concern for their health.
- avmich 5y ago
  There is a diet, where, in addition to eating vegan, SOFAS products - salt, oil, flour, alcohol, sugar - are to be avoided. Some also avoid "highly processed foods". I guess those who follow these avoid some carb issues.
goodpoint 5y ago
> A poor vegan diet can affect your health just as a poor non-vegan diet can affect your health. Spot on. Plenty of people have poor diets due to habits (e.g. way too much meat) or poverty (e.g. unbalanced diet). The article is clearly cherry-picking examples of uninformed or poor vegans while also ignoring how unhealthy other diets can be. (And no, I'm not vegan myself)
- 5y ago

after_care 5y ago

Long time vegan and successful knowledge worker here. I think this study does not closely reflect a modern western vegan diet. 1. There was no supplementation. A modern vegan should be supplementing or eating foods fortified in B6, B12, D, and DHA/DPA. This type of advice is really common among vegan resources and many vegan foods will be fortified with these types of vitamins (DHA/DPA is a bit more rare). There are non-animal sources for all of these vitamins. There is some debate on if DHA/DPA is as effective as consuming Omega 3 directly. Omega 3s can be found in adequate amounts inside many types of seeds, and seeds will have other valuable nutrients as well. 2. The study put people on a diet of soup with meat, soup with milk, or soup with oil. Oil clearly has the least amount of protein and nutrients compared to the other three. In real life humans have better diet choices. 3. The BBC article has a lot of evolutionary arguments for eating meat. In my mind historical dietary practices is as irrelevant as historical medical practices. Modern humans live under such different circumstances. We have a massive food surplus, our life span is 2x, our lifestyle is highly sedentary, we have access to a much greater variety of food and we have a much better understanding of nutrition and human biology. “This is the way things have always been done” is not a good enough reason for me to base my health choices on, and diet is one of the biggest health choices you can make. Plant based foods are healthy for the human body, significantly better for the environment, and more compassionate to all life.

dleacock 5y ago
I agree and to add to your third point... weren't we eating plants long before we started eating meat as primates? I feel like the evolutionary argument shows that our bodies are more aligned with a plant based diet.
- GravitasFailure 5y ago
  Whatever human ancestor was a pure herbivore was some millions of years ago, and in the process we started to rely on meat for nutrients such as B12 and creatine. We also absorb heme iron, which is exclusively found in meat, far better than plant sources of iron, while our stomach acidity is closer to vultures and owls than other primates. I very much doubt humans could survive without at least some meat without agriculture.

hirundo 5y ago

I was on a strict raw vegan diet for about nine months, and the primary reason I stopped was "brain fog". I just couldn't think and didn't want to, compared to before, and adding meat to my diet resolved it within a week or so. This is a common story among the people I met in that community. I don't know how much of this experience was due to the "raw" or "strict" parts. For all I know I would have done fine as cooked-food vegan or an oreos and fritos vegan. I transitioned to all carnivore 11 months ago and have not had similar health problems. Or any health problems that I can attribute to the diet. This line from the article nicely summarizes my current point of view: > and what better way to find the enormous array of fats, amino acids, vitamins and minerals these fastidious organs require, than by feasting on animals which have already painstakingly collected or made them. If you're seeking the most dense and complete nutrition your quest will tend to lead you toward organ meats rather than plants.

spicymaki 5y ago
Isn’t that a bit extreme? Meat is contains saturated fat, cholesterol, and is carcinogenic in many forms so you may be harming your health long term. Plant based foods also contain nutrients you cannot obtain from meat alone. You are also missing fiber which used to manage blood sugar, cholesterol, and improves colon health. Then there is ethical and environmental issue. The latest IPPC report should give you pause. Raw vegan is problematic since cooking food releases nutrients. Many raw vegans refuse to supplement as well, which is unsustainable.

somewhereoutth 5y ago

Much as with anti-vax, veganism is more about maintaining an illusion of personal control in a world where really we have very little, than actually saving animals. (I will leave to one side the social signalling aspect, which again has absolutely nothing to do with animals) (And of course other people have to bend over to accommodate your foible, or otherwise you can feel justifiably aggrieved - a win all around!) Farm animals can be understood as devices for changing things we can't eat into things we can. Without them a large majority of the human population would starve. Having said all that, we do eat far too much meat, and there is no reason to be more than necessarily horrible to said animals.

DangitBobby 5y ago
> veganism is more about maintaining an illusion of personal control in a world where really we have very little, than actually saving animals Sounds like you've got it all figured out.
spicymaki 5y ago
Personal control (illusory or not) is what separates humans from animals. The world cannot sustain meat production at scale. If there is magic nutrients in meat that currently can’t be replicated by a vegan diet via supplements (I am not aware of any), we better figure it out soon.
kwertyoowiyop 5y ago
> Much as with anti-vax, veganism is more about maintaining an illusion of personal control in a world where really we have very little, than actually saving animals. Citation needed.