8 ms·

I get unreasonably angry when Victorian cosplayers think they've found the solution to our wasteful modern life. Simply eschew modern conveniences and spend hou

I get unreasonably angry when Victorian cosplayers think they've found the solution to our wasteful modern life. Simply eschew modern conveniences and spend hours each week beating your clothes against a rock! Simple, instead of grocery shopping twice a month, ditch that wasteful freezer and walk to the farmers' market down the block before dinner each night. Was it cloudy yesterday? Simple!, take a whore-bath¹ at the sink and be thankful your meetings are on Zoom these days :) Ok, ok, those are caricatures of the final paragraphs, but that's what I hear when the word "simple" is abused that way. [¹] Or, "PTA", which isn't much nicer. Any ideas on what to call this that's less vulgar, but still derisive?

tootie 5y ago
It's frequently much more energy intensive too. Cars are a lot more efficient than horses and dishwashers are more efficient than hand washing.
- nielsbot 5y ago
  Can you explain how dish washers are more efficient than hand washing? Is it about water use? What if you don’t run the water while you soap your dishes and only rinse them in a rinse tub?
  - spijdar 5y ago
    I haven't watched this video in a while so apologies if it's not specifically elaborated on, but I believe it's covered here: https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04 https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04 From memory yes, it's partially about water usage, but dishwashers are in general just pretty good overall about efficiently using energy to maximize "food grime removed" per unit of resources fed in. Even if you're careful with water usage while hand washing, I think a decent dishwasher will beat you. Another advantage is the dishwasher heats its own water, whereas with hand washing either you need to use a house-wide water heater or preheat water in a kettle or something, which will have its own energy wastes. This of course depends also on how your house's water is heated. One page I found googling elaborates on these ideas, concluding that you could potentially be more efficient hand washing, but only with a lot of effort: https://www.treehugger.com/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener-4858791 https://www.treehugger.com/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-wash...
    - Ichthypresbyter 5y ago
      >Even if you're careful with water usage while hand washing, I think a decent dishwasher will beat you. I once ran the dishwasher with the outlet hose in a bucket because the drain pump was on its way out. I expected to have to empty it several times, but at the end of the cycle there was less water in it than I would use to fill a washing-up bowl to do the dishes by hand (and the amount of dishes it cleaned might have required more than one bowl).
    - nielsbot 5y ago
      Thanks. I read the treehugger link—pretty convincing overall. Not sure why my question was downvoted tho. (Not accusing you)
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        In my observation unfair downvotes come, when people are angry at something and looking at anything that looks like a scapegoat to direct that anger, which can be anyone not expressing the same mindset they have. Which was you by asking that question that apparently was enough to mentally puts you in the "stupid treehugger camp". I would not worry about it too much and try to not take it personal. Their rational explanation is probably "how you can be so stupid for not knowing that common knowledge". And well, even though I am indeed a treehugger, I also knew about the efficency of dishwashers before and also assumed it to be common knowledge, but I would never downvote someone because of a genuine question adding to the conversation.
      - spijdar 5y ago
        I didn't downvote -- it's fair to be skeptical that a machine that spends hours making loud whirring noises would be more efficient than just scrubbing some dishes in the sink. And I don't want to careful about making unequivocal statements like "dishwashers are always more efficient", I've just heard some convincing reasons why dishwashers in particular are pretty cool and (unintuitively) efficient.
    - hoseja 5y ago
      And it's disgusting and water where I live is cheap and plentiful. Hate water austerity imposed on everyone because of megacities and people living where people shouldn't live.
  - JohnWhigham 5y ago
    If you're careful about water usage and use cold water, you'll always beat a dishwasher. Another thing people often forget about dishwashers: you're supposed to pre-scrub the hard shit off the dishes. Well, you just did half the mechanical work yourself, why not finish it? I think part of it can also be (at least for me) upbringing. We always handwashed our dishes, and only used the dishwasher a couple times per year for big events.
    - dijit 5y ago
      I grew up handwashing too but I disagree with your assertion. Firstly, you can't wash with cold water because soap doesn't activate with cold water, hot water also kills bacteria and helps cut through grease. Fats themselves are hydrophobic and without activated soap you wont get them off... enjoy your "filmy" dishes. Second, humans expend a lot more energy than you think. The act of standing and using our arms releases varying amounts depending on physical fitness but averages somewhere in the 1kg/h ballpark. https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjphysiol/50/2/50_2_199/_pdf https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjphysiol/50/2/50_2_199... Dishwashers use about 1800 Watts and are commonly run for 30 minutes, the average co2 in the USA is 0.92lbs per kWh. Meaning it's _basically_ the same. Then there's the freshwater usage, which is the real kicker, because dishwashers use significantly less freshwater, and freshwater filtering is the largest environmental impact of washing dishes (not the direct co2 output).
      - jamincan 5y ago
        Humans are expending energy regardless of whether they're washing dishes or not. The question is how much extra energy they expend when washing dishes over whatever they might do otherwise.
      - hippari 5y ago
        Human body will have to expense energy regardless whether you do it with house chores, or going to the gym, or a walk in the park.
      - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        That energy use is likely an overestimate - thats mostky the heating element and it doesnt run the entire washing cycle or the water would boil
  - throw0101a 5y ago
    > Is it about water use? What if you don’t run the water while you soap your dishes and only rinse them in a rinse tub? Yes: if your dishwasher has the Energy Star rating then it must use ≤15L of water using the normal cycle per the EPA. This is half the volume of a small sink and a one-third or less of larger ones. Most people run the water. In the US the average flow rate of a kitchen faucet is 8 L/min (2.2 gpm), so you can quickly use up 15L even just rinsing.
    - bluGill 5y ago
      Most people use as much water rinsing their dishes to almost clean before putting them in the dishwasher.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      Very few people are running the faucet anywhere near full blast when dish-washing. My faucet is very slow, about ~1gpm (I timed it once upon a time because I wanted to be able to put a number to how slow it is). When hand washing I run at maybe 1/4 or less of that. Everyone else in my household runs it at less.
  - AngryData 5y ago
    Dish washers do reuse the same water far more than most humans would because it looks like you are washing dishes with filth. Most usually only run 3 small batches of water through them I believe. Not sure if it actually makes them more resource efficient versus mindful hand washing, but I wouldn't consider them inefficient at all.
- pleb_nz 5y ago
  I read somewhere modern people spend the same amount of time doing chores as someone before electricity. It wouldn't surprise me if it were that far off the truth. We own so much more and are told we need things when in reality maybe we don't?
  - adrianN 5y ago
    I definitely don't spend as much time doing chores as my grandma used to do before she had electricity. Recall that not too long ago "sewing your own clothes" also was a chore you had to do, and washing clothes took a whole day. Modern appliances made it possible for women to join the workforce because they freed up so much time.
    - harry8 5y ago
      Yeah was a really, really interesting social change. From the point of view of the middle class (~10% of the population of the wealthier nations?) when the appliances came in the station of women of that class went backwards. Servants became expensive and women who, post-childbirth had high-status and important roles running charities, political parties and such no longer had enough time for it. The suffragettes now had to do the work (assisted by appliance) of the house as well as run it. Not many of us would reverse the changes that came with widespread home appliance availability and adoption on either a personal or societal level but every significant change comes at a cost to someone to whom you might well be sympathetic is something worth remembering when looking forward.
  - DetroitThrow 5y ago
    Absolutely untrue. My mother's life was changed significantly for the better when she got her first washer and dryer. She actually had more time for herself and for working a part time job.
  - tsjq 5y ago
    I came across a similar line in a Podcast 3-4 years ago. I was baffled at that line, same as the reply commenters here. it was Hidden Brain or Planet Money or Freakonomics. They didn't elaborate on that. & I forgot to dig into it
el_oni 5y ago
> Any ideas on what to call this that's less vulgar, but still derisive? I like bird bath for this. I agree with your overall sentiment, I do also aknowledge that we (as a society) are very wasteful with resources. I would like to see some form of incentive for using less power and producing less waste. My energy provider during the first lockdown actually paid us to use electricity because it was being produced at renerwable plants and would otherwise go unused. We set our washing machine to start during the period they would pay us and did our morning routine a few hours earlier. That small incentive was enough to change our behavior
hutzlibu 5y ago
"Simply eschew modern conveniences and spend hours each week beating your clothes against a rock" My question is, if those people actually tried that by themself before suggesting it, or if they just picture the women doing it somewhere. I mean in this specific instance I can imagine they tried. And I did too, while off grid. It gives you a special connection to your clothes. But suggesting this as a general way of life is a bit offworlds.
- hippari 5y ago
  I grew up doing all of those by hands, with the exception of washing machine, I still do all of those chores by hands now. And I'm still only in early 20s, not some old dudes. We debloating our computers all the time, so what's wrong with debloating our houses, and our life ?
  - temporallobe 5y ago
    Absolutely nothing wrong with that (I grew up hanging clothes on a line and using gas stoves, for example), but suggesting these kind of regressions as a drop-in solution to our modern lives is misguided.
  - radus 5y ago
    Doing more manual chores is the opposite of debloating IMO.
- ip26 5y ago
  I think if you read lowtechmag much it's fairly clear they are true believers and probably have done a fair amount of washing clothes the hard way. They aren't simply armchair philosophers. https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2019/10/mist-showers-sustainable-decadence.html https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2019/10/mist-showers-susta...
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    I know: "I mean in this specific instance I can imagine they tried" But the person I was answering to, was speaking more broadly of people proposing "awesome simple solutions". Who in my experience seldom lived their solutions.
dspillett 5y ago
> whore-bath at the sink / Or, “PTA", which isn't much nicer. Any ideas on what to call this that's less vulgar, but still derisive? Not particularly derisive, but I've always called it a “pits & bits” wash. I've heard it called a “got lucky rinse” too, presumably a variant on the whore-bath.
throw0101a 5y ago
> [¹] Or, "PTA", which isn't much nicer. Any ideas on what to call this that's less vulgar, but still derisive? Sponge bath? > 1. A quick sponge bath by hand, using a wet washcloth or a pre-moistened towelette, to extend the interval between showers or clean up after casual sexual intercourse. * https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whore_bath https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whore_bath * https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sponge_bath https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sponge_bath
starfallg 5y ago
> Simple, instead of grocery shopping twice a month, ditch that wasteful freezer and walk to the farmers' market down the block before dinner each night. This might be a positive though. Having moved to the UK years ago, the average trip to the supermarket is for around a few days of food, a week at most here. The supermarket is 7 minutes by foot or a 4 by car. It means we buy a lot more fresh items, and this is natural due to the limited amount of freezer space we have (60/40 fridge and no chest freezer in our house). It's arguably better than the experience I had back in Canada plus for the same quality of food, it's much cheaper over here. So it isn't exactly the same as the olden days with wet markets and whatnot, but it's much closer to it (they even have manned meat, fish and deli counters at our local).
kwhitefoot 5y ago
> instead of grocery shopping twice a month, ditch that wasteful freezer and walk to the farmers' market Middle class Victorians, in England at least, had things delivered. I imagine that quite a lot of cosplay characters are middle class. In fact food delivered to homes of all types was a normal feature of life in England when I was a child in the 50s and 60s. Milk, eggs, etc., every weekday morning delivered directly to the door before breakfast, grocery van came to the street once a week, bread van twice, another van came a bit less often selling lemonade and other drinks. Of course these services were not universally available, we were lucky to live in a moderately affluent town with a prosperous working class. We didn't have a freezer until 1966 and I'm not sure that we suffered from the lack. But once everyone had both a freezer and a car those services became unprofitable and eventually disappeared.
- brobdingnagians 5y ago
  > Of course these services were not universally available, we were lucky to live in a moderately affluent town with a prosperous working class. I think that's key. The wealthy live well enough in pretty much any society. It is the poor who often have the greatest to gain (and lose, when mis-applied) from technological innovations and from having them become widespread.
- bluGill 5y ago
  My grandma didn't have a drivers license. She had to use those trucks to get food, or wait for grandpa to get home to go to the store. Those trucks were a real life saver for her. Today women drivers are not a rare exception.
nine_k 5y ago
Simplicity is not a synonym of ease; very often it's an opposite. Making something both simple and easy is a highly sought art.
hippari 5y ago
Victorian ? Where I'm living that's what most people do ( well except for the washing machine ). I think the same applied for the majority of population in underdeveloped / developing countries.
darkerside 5y ago
Getting unreasonably angry is usually a pretty good sign that you're trying to distract yourself from a good point that was made
- darkerside 5y ago
  Not trolling. If the response were, "_simply_ throw a small child into the nearest wishing well", you wouldn't be angry. It's only because there is truth therein that you are upset.
HideousKojima 5y ago
Pirate bath/shower is what I've heard them called: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pirate%20bath https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pirate%20bat...

tootie 5y ago

It's frequently much more energy intensive too. Cars are a lot more efficient than horses and dishwashers are more efficient than hand washing.

nielsbot 5y ago
Can you explain how dish washers are more efficient than hand washing? Is it about water use? What if you don’t run the water while you soap your dishes and only rinse them in a rinse tub?
- spijdar 5y ago
  I haven't watched this video in a while so apologies if it's not specifically elaborated on, but I believe it's covered here: https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04 https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04 From memory yes, it's partially about water usage, but dishwashers are in general just pretty good overall about efficiently using energy to maximize "food grime removed" per unit of resources fed in. Even if you're careful with water usage while hand washing, I think a decent dishwasher will beat you. Another advantage is the dishwasher heats its own water, whereas with hand washing either you need to use a house-wide water heater or preheat water in a kettle or something, which will have its own energy wastes. This of course depends also on how your house's water is heated. One page I found googling elaborates on these ideas, concluding that you could potentially be more efficient hand washing, but only with a lot of effort: https://www.treehugger.com/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener-4858791 https://www.treehugger.com/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-wash...
  - Ichthypresbyter 5y ago
    >Even if you're careful with water usage while hand washing, I think a decent dishwasher will beat you. I once ran the dishwasher with the outlet hose in a bucket because the drain pump was on its way out. I expected to have to empty it several times, but at the end of the cycle there was less water in it than I would use to fill a washing-up bowl to do the dishes by hand (and the amount of dishes it cleaned might have required more than one bowl).
  - nielsbot 5y ago
    Thanks. I read the treehugger link—pretty convincing overall. Not sure why my question was downvoted tho. (Not accusing you)
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      In my observation unfair downvotes come, when people are angry at something and looking at anything that looks like a scapegoat to direct that anger, which can be anyone not expressing the same mindset they have. Which was you by asking that question that apparently was enough to mentally puts you in the "stupid treehugger camp". I would not worry about it too much and try to not take it personal. Their rational explanation is probably "how you can be so stupid for not knowing that common knowledge". And well, even though I am indeed a treehugger, I also knew about the efficency of dishwashers before and also assumed it to be common knowledge, but I would never downvote someone because of a genuine question adding to the conversation.
    - spijdar 5y ago
      I didn't downvote -- it's fair to be skeptical that a machine that spends hours making loud whirring noises would be more efficient than just scrubbing some dishes in the sink. And I don't want to careful about making unequivocal statements like "dishwashers are always more efficient", I've just heard some convincing reasons why dishwashers in particular are pretty cool and (unintuitively) efficient.
  - hoseja 5y ago
    And it's disgusting and water where I live is cheap and plentiful. Hate water austerity imposed on everyone because of megacities and people living where people shouldn't live.
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  If you're careful about water usage and use cold water, you'll always beat a dishwasher. Another thing people often forget about dishwashers: you're supposed to pre-scrub the hard shit off the dishes. Well, you just did half the mechanical work yourself, why not finish it? I think part of it can also be (at least for me) upbringing. We always handwashed our dishes, and only used the dishwasher a couple times per year for big events.
  - dijit 5y ago
    I grew up handwashing too but I disagree with your assertion. Firstly, you can't wash with cold water because soap doesn't activate with cold water, hot water also kills bacteria and helps cut through grease. Fats themselves are hydrophobic and without activated soap you wont get them off... enjoy your "filmy" dishes. Second, humans expend a lot more energy than you think. The act of standing and using our arms releases varying amounts depending on physical fitness but averages somewhere in the 1kg/h ballpark. https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjphysiol/50/2/50_2_199/_pdf https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjphysiol/50/2/50_2_199... Dishwashers use about 1800 Watts and are commonly run for 30 minutes, the average co2 in the USA is 0.92lbs per kWh. Meaning it's _basically_ the same. Then there's the freshwater usage, which is the real kicker, because dishwashers use significantly less freshwater, and freshwater filtering is the largest environmental impact of washing dishes (not the direct co2 output).
    - jamincan 5y ago
      Humans are expending energy regardless of whether they're washing dishes or not. The question is how much extra energy they expend when washing dishes over whatever they might do otherwise.
    - hippari 5y ago
      Human body will have to expense energy regardless whether you do it with house chores, or going to the gym, or a walk in the park.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      That energy use is likely an overestimate - thats mostky the heating element and it doesnt run the entire washing cycle or the water would boil
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > Is it about water use? What if you don’t run the water while you soap your dishes and only rinse them in a rinse tub? Yes: if your dishwasher has the Energy Star rating then it must use ≤15L of water using the normal cycle per the EPA. This is half the volume of a small sink and a one-third or less of larger ones. Most people run the water. In the US the average flow rate of a kitchen faucet is 8 L/min (2.2 gpm), so you can quickly use up 15L even just rinsing.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Most people use as much water rinsing their dishes to almost clean before putting them in the dishwasher.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Very few people are running the faucet anywhere near full blast when dish-washing. My faucet is very slow, about ~1gpm (I timed it once upon a time because I wanted to be able to put a number to how slow it is). When hand washing I run at maybe 1/4 or less of that. Everyone else in my household runs it at less.
- AngryData 5y ago
  Dish washers do reuse the same water far more than most humans would because it looks like you are washing dishes with filth. Most usually only run 3 small batches of water through them I believe. Not sure if it actually makes them more resource efficient versus mindful hand washing, but I wouldn't consider them inefficient at all.
pleb_nz 5y ago
I read somewhere modern people spend the same amount of time doing chores as someone before electricity. It wouldn't surprise me if it were that far off the truth. We own so much more and are told we need things when in reality maybe we don't?
- adrianN 5y ago
  I definitely don't spend as much time doing chores as my grandma used to do before she had electricity. Recall that not too long ago "sewing your own clothes" also was a chore you had to do, and washing clothes took a whole day. Modern appliances made it possible for women to join the workforce because they freed up so much time.
  - harry8 5y ago
    Yeah was a really, really interesting social change. From the point of view of the middle class (~10% of the population of the wealthier nations?) when the appliances came in the station of women of that class went backwards. Servants became expensive and women who, post-childbirth had high-status and important roles running charities, political parties and such no longer had enough time for it. The suffragettes now had to do the work (assisted by appliance) of the house as well as run it. Not many of us would reverse the changes that came with widespread home appliance availability and adoption on either a personal or societal level but every significant change comes at a cost to someone to whom you might well be sympathetic is something worth remembering when looking forward.
- DetroitThrow 5y ago
  Absolutely untrue. My mother's life was changed significantly for the better when she got her first washer and dryer. She actually had more time for herself and for working a part time job.
- tsjq 5y ago
  I came across a similar line in a Podcast 3-4 years ago. I was baffled at that line, same as the reply commenters here. it was Hidden Brain or Planet Money or Freakonomics. They didn't elaborate on that. & I forgot to dig into it

el_oni 5y ago

> Any ideas on what to call this that's less vulgar, but still derisive? I like bird bath for this. I agree with your overall sentiment, I do also aknowledge that we (as a society) are very wasteful with resources. I would like to see some form of incentive for using less power and producing less waste. My energy provider during the first lockdown actually paid us to use electricity because it was being produced at renerwable plants and would otherwise go unused. We set our washing machine to start during the period they would pay us and did our morning routine a few hours earlier. That small incentive was enough to change our behavior

hutzlibu 5y ago

"Simply eschew modern conveniences and spend hours each week beating your clothes against a rock" My question is, if those people actually tried that by themself before suggesting it, or if they just picture the women doing it somewhere. I mean in this specific instance I can imagine they tried. And I did too, while off grid. It gives you a special connection to your clothes. But suggesting this as a general way of life is a bit offworlds.

hippari 5y ago
I grew up doing all of those by hands, with the exception of washing machine, I still do all of those chores by hands now. And I'm still only in early 20s, not some old dudes. We debloating our computers all the time, so what's wrong with debloating our houses, and our life ?
- temporallobe 5y ago
  Absolutely nothing wrong with that (I grew up hanging clothes on a line and using gas stoves, for example), but suggesting these kind of regressions as a drop-in solution to our modern lives is misguided.
- radus 5y ago
  Doing more manual chores is the opposite of debloating IMO.
ip26 5y ago
I think if you read lowtechmag much it's fairly clear they are true believers and probably have done a fair amount of washing clothes the hard way. They aren't simply armchair philosophers. https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2019/10/mist-showers-sustainable-decadence.html https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2019/10/mist-showers-susta...
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  I know: "I mean in this specific instance I can imagine they tried" But the person I was answering to, was speaking more broadly of people proposing "awesome simple solutions". Who in my experience seldom lived their solutions.

dspillett 5y ago

> whore-bath at the sink / Or, “PTA", which isn't much nicer. Any ideas on what to call this that's less vulgar, but still derisive? Not particularly derisive, but I've always called it a “pits & bits” wash. I've heard it called a “got lucky rinse” too, presumably a variant on the whore-bath.

throw0101a 5y ago

> [¹] Or, "PTA", which isn't much nicer. Any ideas on what to call this that's less vulgar, but still derisive? Sponge bath? > 1. A quick sponge bath by hand, using a wet washcloth or a pre-moistened towelette, to extend the interval between showers or clean up after casual sexual intercourse. * https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whore_bath https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whore_bath * https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sponge_bath https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sponge_bath

starfallg 5y ago

> Simple, instead of grocery shopping twice a month, ditch that wasteful freezer and walk to the farmers' market down the block before dinner each night. This might be a positive though. Having moved to the UK years ago, the average trip to the supermarket is for around a few days of food, a week at most here. The supermarket is 7 minutes by foot or a 4 by car. It means we buy a lot more fresh items, and this is natural due to the limited amount of freezer space we have (60/40 fridge and no chest freezer in our house). It's arguably better than the experience I had back in Canada plus for the same quality of food, it's much cheaper over here. So it isn't exactly the same as the olden days with wet markets and whatnot, but it's much closer to it (they even have manned meat, fish and deli counters at our local).

kwhitefoot 5y ago

> instead of grocery shopping twice a month, ditch that wasteful freezer and walk to the farmers' market Middle class Victorians, in England at least, had things delivered. I imagine that quite a lot of cosplay characters are middle class. In fact food delivered to homes of all types was a normal feature of life in England when I was a child in the 50s and 60s. Milk, eggs, etc., every weekday morning delivered directly to the door before breakfast, grocery van came to the street once a week, bread van twice, another van came a bit less often selling lemonade and other drinks. Of course these services were not universally available, we were lucky to live in a moderately affluent town with a prosperous working class. We didn't have a freezer until 1966 and I'm not sure that we suffered from the lack. But once everyone had both a freezer and a car those services became unprofitable and eventually disappeared.

brobdingnagians 5y ago
> Of course these services were not universally available, we were lucky to live in a moderately affluent town with a prosperous working class. I think that's key. The wealthy live well enough in pretty much any society. It is the poor who often have the greatest to gain (and lose, when mis-applied) from technological innovations and from having them become widespread.
bluGill 5y ago
My grandma didn't have a drivers license. She had to use those trucks to get food, or wait for grandpa to get home to go to the store. Those trucks were a real life saver for her. Today women drivers are not a rare exception.

nine_k 5y ago

Simplicity is not a synonym of ease; very often it's an opposite. Making something both simple and easy is a highly sought art.

hippari 5y ago

Victorian ? Where I'm living that's what most people do ( well except for the washing machine ). I think the same applied for the majority of population in underdeveloped / developing countries.

darkerside 5y ago

Getting unreasonably angry is usually a pretty good sign that you're trying to distract yourself from a good point that was made

darkerside 5y ago
Not trolling. If the response were, "_simply_ throw a small child into the nearest wishing well", you wouldn't be angry. It's only because there is truth therein that you are upset.

HideousKojima 5y ago

Pirate bath/shower is what I've heard them called: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pirate%20bath https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pirate%20bat...