5 ms·

Do we really want a bunch of armed people flying on planes? There seems to be enough assaults on flight crew as it stands today. Do we really want to add firear

Do we really want a bunch of armed people flying on planes? There seems to be enough assaults on flight crew as it stands today. Do we really want to add firearms and other weapons to the mix?

sp332 5y ago
We were doing just fine keeping guns off of planes without the TSA. That's why the 9/11 hijackers had to use mace and small knives. ETA: I base most of my thinking on this on Bruce Schneier's points, so I'm just going to link his blog here. https://www.schneier.com/tag/air-travel/page/8/ https://www.schneier.com/tag/air-travel/page/8/ And a quote from an Atlantic interview: “Only two things have made flying safer: the reinforcement of cockpit doors, and the fact that passengers know now to resist hijackers.” This assumes, of course, that al-Qaeda will target airplanes for hijacking, or target aviation at all. “We defend against what the terrorists did last week,” Schneier said. He believes that the country would be just as safe as it is today if airport security were rolled back to pre-9/11 levels. “Spend the rest of your money on intelligence, investigations, and emergency response.”
- EMM_386 5y ago
  The TSA also has to enforce things like liquid bans, and making sure there are no explosive assembly components built into the heel of your shoe and yes those are still important. A reinforced cockpit door is not going to help you when you sneak on individual components for plastic explosives and assemble them in the lavatory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_plot
  - mikem170 5y ago
    Didn't they scan carry on bags before the TSA? It would be the same thing, just with the newer scanners.
  - XorNot 5y ago
    That plot didn't work when the guy tried it the first time.
  - sp332 5y ago
    That wasn't in the USA and it was pre-9/11. And they were discovered by local police checking out a fire, not airport security, which strengthens the point about investing in intelligence instead.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    Highly questionable if this security theatre is worth it. I can only be justified if you don't rationally quantify risk. There are a lot of emotion attached to security in aviation of course.
- brongondwana 5y ago
  Yeah, 20 years ago he was saying "invest in hospital beds", that not only helps you be resilient against a ton of different potential terrorist threats, but also against natural disasters. Looks even more sensible today.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    The funny thing is supposedly today, there are hospital beds, but insufficient healthcare workers due to insufficient pay relative to quality of life at work.
anigbrowl 5y ago
Billions of people have had to take off their shoes at every airport check in for nearly 2 decades now because one half-baked extremist unsuccessfully attempted to detonate a bomb in his shoe. There's security and then there's paranoid irrationality, which is what we have at present.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  But hey, now you can pay the government an extra tax ($80 to $100 every 5 years) to not have to do that or pay a private company (Clear) even more to be an even more privileged citizen who deserves more trust than the average citizen.

Do we really want a bunch of armed people flying on planes? There seems to be enough assaults on flight crew as it stands today. Do we really want to add firearms and other weapons to the mix?

sp332 5y ago

We were doing just fine keeping guns off of planes without the TSA. That's why the 9/11 hijackers had to use mace and small knives. ETA: I base most of my thinking on this on Bruce Schneier's points, so I'm just going to link his blog here. https://www.schneier.com/tag/air-travel/page/8/ https://www.schneier.com/tag/air-travel/page/8/ And a quote from an Atlantic interview: “Only two things have made flying safer: the reinforcement of cockpit doors, and the fact that passengers know now to resist hijackers.” This assumes, of course, that al-Qaeda will target airplanes for hijacking, or target aviation at all. “We defend against what the terrorists did last week,” Schneier said. He believes that the country would be just as safe as it is today if airport security were rolled back to pre-9/11 levels. “Spend the rest of your money on intelligence, investigations, and emergency response.”

EMM_386 5y ago
The TSA also has to enforce things like liquid bans, and making sure there are no explosive assembly components built into the heel of your shoe and yes those are still important. A reinforced cockpit door is not going to help you when you sneak on individual components for plastic explosives and assemble them in the lavatory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_plot
- mikem170 5y ago
  Didn't they scan carry on bags before the TSA? It would be the same thing, just with the newer scanners.
- XorNot 5y ago
  That plot didn't work when the guy tried it the first time.
- sp332 5y ago
  That wasn't in the USA and it was pre-9/11. And they were discovered by local police checking out a fire, not airport security, which strengthens the point about investing in intelligence instead.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Highly questionable if this security theatre is worth it. I can only be justified if you don't rationally quantify risk. There are a lot of emotion attached to security in aviation of course.
brongondwana 5y ago
Yeah, 20 years ago he was saying "invest in hospital beds", that not only helps you be resilient against a ton of different potential terrorist threats, but also against natural disasters. Looks even more sensible today.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  The funny thing is supposedly today, there are hospital beds, but insufficient healthcare workers due to insufficient pay relative to quality of life at work.

anigbrowl 5y ago

Billions of people have had to take off their shoes at every airport check in for nearly 2 decades now because one half-baked extremist unsuccessfully attempted to detonate a bomb in his shoe. There's security and then there's paranoid irrationality, which is what we have at present.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
But hey, now you can pay the government an extra tax ($80 to $100 every 5 years) to not have to do that or pay a private company (Clear) even more to be an even more privileged citizen who deserves more trust than the average citizen.