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> The UI, the up-voting process, the very (lack of) structure in how comments are displayed and sorted all encourage verbal vomit, and that's exactly what YouTu

> The UI, the up-voting process, the very (lack of) structure in how comments are displayed and sorted all encourage verbal vomit, and that's exactly what YouTube gets. In general, social media structure usually provides zero incentives to engage in real discussions and deep thinking. I don't see this being addressed, let alone changed, no matter what the executives say. I think you might be literally the first person I've ever encountered who has touched on this, whereas, whenever I mention the possibility, any response I get is disagreement or negative. Very often, people "know" that it is not the problem, yet oddly have a very strong aversion to sharing how it is they know that. I think it would be kind of hilarious if this was in fact (but unknown) one of the root causes of our problems, but no one has the ability to even consider the idea.

jimbokun 5y ago
> I think you might be literally the first person I've ever encountered who has touched on this, whereas, whenever I mention the possibility, any response I get is disagreement or negative. So they give you a downvote, a quippy snarky Tweet in response to disagree with you that there is a lack of thoughtful, deep thinking about topics.
vngzs 5y ago
I'm pretty sure this is the joke in multiple John Oliver web segments [0]. It's pretty well-understood that the YouTube design is not conducive to long-form discussion. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbw0gJHHBk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbw0gJHHBk
notanzaiiswear 5y ago
I thought it was well known that the algorithms optimise for stress and anger, because it drives more engagement. I think it might even be involuntarily - the algorithms may have been set to train for enhanced engagement, and hate and anger happen to be the solution.
- mistermann 5y ago
  Definitely, the effect of algorithms gets discussed regularly - but I can't recall encountering any significant discussions about the effects of design (UI, functionality, etc) of social media platforms. As far as I can tell, the idea is almost completely off the radar.
  - zestyping 5y ago
    I talk about this all the time. I find it simply insane that, out of the entire design space of possible mechanisms for computer-mediated communication, every major platform has somehow decided that typing comments into small boxes that are indented under other small boxes is the only solution. There are countless dimensions of design variables that haven't even been considered.
    - mistermann 5y ago
      > out of the entire design space of possible mechanisms for computer-mediated communication, every major platform has somehow decided that typing comments into small boxes that are indented under other small boxes is the only solution Now that you say this, I think I now recall hearing that before. That said, "typing comments into small boxes that are indented under other small boxes" is a very useful/pragmatic feature, but a problem is that this is almost the entirety of what's out there (well, a few others things like upvoting, communities & subcategories, etc). There is so much more that could be done. Have you put a lot of thought into specifics of what else could be done, what benefits could be realized, etc?
      - zestyping 5y ago
        > There is so much more that could be done. Exactly! I've had all kinds of ideas. No claim that any particular idea is going to be an improvement, but here are a few one could try: - Putting rate limits on commenting (perhaps taking effect only after a person has commented in the same thread a few times) - Reading your comment aloud, back to you, before you can click to post it - Giving you a field in your profile to explain your communication style and good intentions, which is displayed whenever someone is composing a reply to you - Requiring you to switch to recording voice or video messages, after you've typed back and forth with someone a few times - Automatically switching to private messages, after you've typed back and forth with someone a few times - Simply showing you some general advice on conflict resolution, nonviolent communication, etc. while you're composing your comment - Asking you what you intend to achieve by participating in the conversation, and then reminding you of your goal - Asking you how much time you want to spend on the conversation, and then showing it to you - Requiring each comment to be approved by the author of its immediate parent (so you can disagree with each other, but you have to be kind) And so on.

jimbokun 5y ago

> I think you might be literally the first person I've ever encountered who has touched on this, whereas, whenever I mention the possibility, any response I get is disagreement or negative. So they give you a downvote, a quippy snarky Tweet in response to disagree with you that there is a lack of thoughtful, deep thinking about topics.

vngzs 5y ago

I'm pretty sure this is the joke in multiple John Oliver web segments [0]. It's pretty well-understood that the YouTube design is not conducive to long-form discussion. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbw0gJHHBk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbw0gJHHBk

notanzaiiswear 5y ago

I thought it was well known that the algorithms optimise for stress and anger, because it drives more engagement. I think it might even be involuntarily - the algorithms may have been set to train for enhanced engagement, and hate and anger happen to be the solution.

mistermann 5y ago
Definitely, the effect of algorithms gets discussed regularly - but I can't recall encountering any significant discussions about the effects of design (UI, functionality, etc) of social media platforms. As far as I can tell, the idea is almost completely off the radar.
- zestyping 5y ago
  I talk about this all the time. I find it simply insane that, out of the entire design space of possible mechanisms for computer-mediated communication, every major platform has somehow decided that typing comments into small boxes that are indented under other small boxes is the only solution. There are countless dimensions of design variables that haven't even been considered.
  - mistermann 5y ago
    > out of the entire design space of possible mechanisms for computer-mediated communication, every major platform has somehow decided that typing comments into small boxes that are indented under other small boxes is the only solution Now that you say this, I think I now recall hearing that before. That said, "typing comments into small boxes that are indented under other small boxes" is a very useful/pragmatic feature, but a problem is that this is almost the entirety of what's out there (well, a few others things like upvoting, communities & subcategories, etc). There is so much more that could be done. Have you put a lot of thought into specifics of what else could be done, what benefits could be realized, etc?
    - zestyping 5y ago
      > There is so much more that could be done. Exactly! I've had all kinds of ideas. No claim that any particular idea is going to be an improvement, but here are a few one could try: - Putting rate limits on commenting (perhaps taking effect only after a person has commented in the same thread a few times) - Reading your comment aloud, back to you, before you can click to post it - Giving you a field in your profile to explain your communication style and good intentions, which is displayed whenever someone is composing a reply to you - Requiring you to switch to recording voice or video messages, after you've typed back and forth with someone a few times - Automatically switching to private messages, after you've typed back and forth with someone a few times - Simply showing you some general advice on conflict resolution, nonviolent communication, etc. while you're composing your comment - Asking you what you intend to achieve by participating in the conversation, and then reminding you of your goal - Asking you how much time you want to spend on the conversation, and then showing it to you - Requiring each comment to be approved by the author of its immediate parent (so you can disagree with each other, but you have to be kind) And so on.