18 ms·

People Now Spend More at Amazon Than at Walmart

112 points by billyharris 5y ago

HenryKissinger 5y ago
> Propelled in part by surging demand during the pandemic, people spent more than $610 billion on Amazon over the 12 months ending in June, according to Wall Street estimates compiled by the financial research firm FactSet. Walmart on Tuesday posted sales of $566 billion for the 12 months ending in July. $610 billion is starting to resemble the tax revenue of some nation states.
- smnrchrds 5y ago
  $610 billion is more than the GDP of 190 out of 213 countries in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...
  - pope_meat 5y ago
    And some of those 190 even manage to provide healthcare to their citizens, there's no "oh they're just part time citizens, gotta be a citizen for 40 hours a week to qualify for a doctor"
    - swiley 5y ago
      Those countries probably also require upfront price estimates and the hospital admins might not be trained experts in gaming regulation.
      - handrous 5y ago
        Price controls. It's always (AFAI can tell) price controls, whether de facto or de jure. That seems to be the uniting factor in successful healthcare systems. Even Singapore, the closest thing I know of to a "free market healthcare can work!" darling, has some price controls (and uses the very real threat of imposing more to keep the rest of the prices under control).
Grakel 5y ago
The article doesn't mention Walmart's website, which has become very good and widely used, especially as a more trustworthy source for real products than Amazon.com. Also the article is worded as if Walmart is in decline- the future is bright for both of these companies, not that anyone is concerned.
- silisili 5y ago
  Walmart is getting better, but still way behind on the web front. They'll show you things in stock, then tell you it's out of stock upon checkout. Go back to product page, shows in stock again. They also use way, way too many captchas. Lastly, they divide walmart.com from walmart pickup and delivery for no reason. Some things you order on the .com side are only 'shippable' if your local store has it. So, it's pickup and delivery yet doesn't show up on that side. I laughed because when I ordered a fishing rod for my child, it was literally a fishing rod leaned against my house. No box, label, etc. I still try to use them as I trust their products more than Amazon. I love their new tool lineup, quality stuff at a decent price, with next day or 2 day delivery. I really like that for returns, they'll come pick it up. AMZ charges extra for that. Amazon has much better CS though, hands down.
  - coding123 5y ago
    Oh, another example of that local vs distant store thing is that it's kinda up to the store. You may order a BROWN blanket, but your local store is somehow notified and they go, OH I HAVE THAT BLANKET! And then they switch you from it being delivered from far away to having some guy that's getting off work that lives near you drop it off. And then you open it up and it's that BLUE blanket you already saw locally and didn't want!!!!!
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    > they divide walmart.com from walmart pickup and delivery for no reason I can hazard an informed guess as to why that is -- they built .com as an independent company, in order to get it off the ground faster and with less interference from the brick and mortar side. End result: quick iteration, but now two completely separate supply chains. You'd be amazing how complicated warehousing, inventory, shipping, etc. get when you've got 2 SKUs for every item + a bunch of hacks to duct tape everything together. And it's not trivial to reconverged them, when you're as optimized as Walmart logistics is.
yann2 5y ago
Long way to go on revenues - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_the_United_States_by_revenue https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in...
- zamadatix 5y ago
  According to the page those numbers refer to FY 2019 or FY 2020. Per the second paragraph of TFA for the last 12 months Amazon has an estimated 610 billion in sales (which are part of revenue), not FY aligned. This actually lines up pretty closely to just naively expanding the y/y growth rate on the page you linked over time. In reality it slightly outperformed that.
  - yann2 5y ago
    Walmart is ahead of Amazon by some 60B in q1 q2 rev and its increasing as covid effect/ecom sales start dropping. They will easily be ahead 100-120B ahead at the end of the year. Amazon cant touch those number any time soon unless covid suddenly surges and lockdowns restart. People are sick of sitting at home and going to Walmart is entertainment for a large segment of the population.
mike_d 5y ago
When a shopper enters a Walmart they have a fixed amount of money in their pocket and generally a good idea of what they want. You might get them to grab a candy bar, or buy the next grade up of tires, but it is effectively shifting dollars that would have been spent there already. Revenue growth is all about adding more essential items to the store and eliminating trips to other retailers. Amazon has much more discretionary budget to try and extract from their customers, so time on site is absolutely critical. I'd say the two aren't even competitive at this point. Amazon will need many years to build out a robust vertically integrated grocery logistics network that reaches Walmart customers. A few Whole Foods in rich neighborhoods isn't going to cut it. On the other hand, Walmart will never figure out how to sell stuff online without losing money, and will probably kill itself trying to chase Amazon for some unknown reason.
- majormajor 5y ago
  > When a shopper enters a Walmart they have a fixed amount of money in their pocket and generally a good idea of what they want. You might get them to grab a candy bar, or buy the next grade up of tires, but it is effectively shifting dollars that would have been spent there already. Revenue growth is all about adding more essential items to the store and eliminating trips to other retailers. People with credit cards shop at Walmart too, and there's a significant amount of marketing effort done to convince people to get new items they weren't planning on while they're there. Plenty of people there can be sold new things without going into a "oh, this new toy for my kid on the aisle endcap looks nice, time to put away the dozen eggs because I only have X dollars allocated for this trip" same-net-spending reaction. (Anecdotally, my behavior is basicaly the opposite of what you describe: I got to Amazon when I already want a specific thing, and I find their browsing experience god-awful. I go to a physical store when I want to browse or shop without direction. Maybe I'll end up with a new shirt, or a book, or a video game, or a plant... maybe nothing...)
  - robocat 5y ago
    > People with credit cards shop at Walmart too If people spend next months wages, that only temporarily increases sales. Long term I would expect that non-Walmart credit would decrease sales, since shopper’s income remains constant but they pay more on interest so less remaining for other goods.
overtonwhy 5y ago
Ethically they're the same and I boycott both and encourage everyone else to do the same. Vote with your money for how you want the world to work.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I want well-priced consumer goods, broad selection, and fast/easy logistics. I do vote with my wallet and Amazon earns a lot of share of it.
_huayra_ 5y ago
Is there a better way than google shopping to find deals across sites for products? I try to avoid using Amazon out of practical (e.g. products often being cheaper elsewhere, often have less worry about getting some SKU-identical knockoff that amazon absorbed from some FBA hack) and sometimes ideological (a CEO who rides a particularly phallic rocket into space and then gloats about it while his employees are treated like subhuman machines is an infuriating character to say the least). However, I'm not sure if there is a reliable non-Google way to search a wide variety of other shopping sites without getting hits for bad aliexpress or ebay auctions for clearly stolen / counterfeit items. I already own a pair of Abibas and that is more than enough :/
- 1-6 5y ago
  Slickdeals, CamelCamelCamel
- wombat-man 5y ago
  I kinda gave up on amazon too at this point. I'm at the point where I trust a few stores to not sell me bogus stuff. Target, Walmart, Costco, REI. All are good. Yes I know walmart and target have 3rd party sellers, just don't buy from those. I am okay with paying a little more, or getting a slightly worse deal to get something I know is "genuine" or well made. Especially if I plan on putting it in/on my body. I know ethically walmart isn't way better. But afaik they still have old fashioned relationships with their product sourcers. Meaning they're probably buying all their cereals/foods directly from manufacturers, for example.
  - cma 5y ago
    Costco, online at least, sells all kinds of bogus stuff: https://www.reddit.com/r/Costco/comments/ojhrts/costco_is_devaluing_their_brand_by_selling_snake/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Costco/comments/ojhrts/costco_is_de...
    - wombat-man 5y ago
      weird! Well, but for normal stuff they usually have good stuff, and a great return policy if it doesn't work out.
SeanFerree 5y ago
Walmart usually has better prices. It's just that going there is a pain. I do prefer going to a store and looking at some things before I purchase them. With the speed of delivery it's hard to argue against Amazon though
ndesaulniers 5y ago
I use both sites for shopping. Walmart has free (roughly) two day shipping if you spend $35+. For bulkier items and (frequently IME) better prices, I prefer Walmart to Amazon Prime. I have major concerns over fraudulent or quid pro quo reviews on Amazon, and the prices generally aren't the best around. Free (or rather included) next day shipping is great though.
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
Walmart has a grocery service at multiple locations where I live without excessive costs for pantry items. Amazon cant compete there.
FREETELEVISION 5y ago
I ordered six lbs of Salmon Fillet for pickup today. Website said my order was cancelled, however weight adjusted for 4 lbs. Then got a notice my order was ready. They billed me for 4 lbs. But they gave me 16 lbs. This happened once before for 32 lbs. They always give me a couple FREE. Just on salmon. LOL!!!! I eat salmon everday, cheaeper than chicken at this rate.
segmondy 5y ago
Why won't they? The other day I needed a set of air hose tools and looked it up at Amazon, saw it for $19. Went to my local store auto parts store because I wanted to support my local business and they have a fraction of the Amazon set for $42. I ordered it from Amazon and had it in 12 hours. Needed lawn mower filters, at home depot, it was $10.99 for 1 filter. For the 2 types I wanted, got them for $8.99 for 4 and 5 pieces. Using amazon is not even fair. I won't buy food, expensive electronics, or really bulky items from them, but for most things they are seriously crushing the competitors.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Using amazon is not even fair. ...but for most things they are seriously crushing the competitors. Not in my experience. I've seriously dialed back my usage of them, but what started me on that path several years ago was comparison shopping for the first time in a long time, and finding that local stores usually matched and sometimes beat Amazon's prices. Why wait 3+ days for two day shipping when I could literally pick it up now for the same price? Now the main issue I have is all the garbage products with fake reviews.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  The main advantage of Amazon is not the price IMO. It is the fact that I don't have to deal with driving up to Walmart/Target, navigating through the crowd, standing in the line, traffic, etc and robbing 2 hours of my day. Click and it shows up at the door is the best part of any online shopping experience, Amazon's 2 day shipment is the cherry on the cake.
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    Yeah the time to go there and the 50% chance that they don’t have the product when you get there are the worst
- SevenSigs 5y ago
  Amazon shows different prices to different people... now that they got you hooked, you better watch out.
cprayingmantis 5y ago
Everything is nibbling away at Walmart. The big one that I don't think people are paying attention to anymore is Dollar General. Dollar General has cut out at least half of trips to Walmart just by virtue of convenience according to the people I hang out with.
- coolgeek 5y ago
  I'm not a fan of Dollar General. But there's something poetic about a smaller competitor eating away at WalMart's margins after WalMart destroyed so many small businesses.

112 points by billyharris 5y ago

> Propelled in part by surging demand during the pandemic, people spent more than $610 billion on Amazon over the 12 months ending in June, according to Wall Street estimates compiled by the financial research firm FactSet. Walmart on Tuesday posted sales of $566 billion for the 12 months ending in July. $610 billion is starting to resemble the tax revenue of some nation states.

smnrchrds 5y ago
$610 billion is more than the GDP of 190 out of 213 countries in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...
- pope_meat 5y ago
  And some of those 190 even manage to provide healthcare to their citizens, there's no "oh they're just part time citizens, gotta be a citizen for 40 hours a week to qualify for a doctor"
  - swiley 5y ago
    Those countries probably also require upfront price estimates and the hospital admins might not be trained experts in gaming regulation.
    - handrous 5y ago
      Price controls. It's always (AFAI can tell) price controls, whether de facto or de jure. That seems to be the uniting factor in successful healthcare systems. Even Singapore, the closest thing I know of to a "free market healthcare can work!" darling, has some price controls (and uses the very real threat of imposing more to keep the rest of the prices under control).

Grakel 5y ago

The article doesn't mention Walmart's website, which has become very good and widely used, especially as a more trustworthy source for real products than Amazon.com. Also the article is worded as if Walmart is in decline- the future is bright for both of these companies, not that anyone is concerned.

silisili 5y ago
Walmart is getting better, but still way behind on the web front. They'll show you things in stock, then tell you it's out of stock upon checkout. Go back to product page, shows in stock again. They also use way, way too many captchas. Lastly, they divide walmart.com from walmart pickup and delivery for no reason. Some things you order on the .com side are only 'shippable' if your local store has it. So, it's pickup and delivery yet doesn't show up on that side. I laughed because when I ordered a fishing rod for my child, it was literally a fishing rod leaned against my house. No box, label, etc. I still try to use them as I trust their products more than Amazon. I love their new tool lineup, quality stuff at a decent price, with next day or 2 day delivery. I really like that for returns, they'll come pick it up. AMZ charges extra for that. Amazon has much better CS though, hands down.
- coding123 5y ago
  Oh, another example of that local vs distant store thing is that it's kinda up to the store. You may order a BROWN blanket, but your local store is somehow notified and they go, OH I HAVE THAT BLANKET! And then they switch you from it being delivered from far away to having some guy that's getting off work that lives near you drop it off. And then you open it up and it's that BLUE blanket you already saw locally and didn't want!!!!!
- ethbr0 5y ago
  > they divide walmart.com from walmart pickup and delivery for no reason I can hazard an informed guess as to why that is -- they built .com as an independent company, in order to get it off the ground faster and with less interference from the brick and mortar side. End result: quick iteration, but now two completely separate supply chains. You'd be amazing how complicated warehousing, inventory, shipping, etc. get when you've got 2 SKUs for every item + a bunch of hacks to duct tape everything together. And it's not trivial to reconverged them, when you're as optimized as Walmart logistics is.

yann2 5y ago

Long way to go on revenues - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_the_United_States_by_revenue https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in...

zamadatix 5y ago
According to the page those numbers refer to FY 2019 or FY 2020. Per the second paragraph of TFA for the last 12 months Amazon has an estimated 610 billion in sales (which are part of revenue), not FY aligned. This actually lines up pretty closely to just naively expanding the y/y growth rate on the page you linked over time. In reality it slightly outperformed that.
- yann2 5y ago
  Walmart is ahead of Amazon by some 60B in q1 q2 rev and its increasing as covid effect/ecom sales start dropping. They will easily be ahead 100-120B ahead at the end of the year. Amazon cant touch those number any time soon unless covid suddenly surges and lockdowns restart. People are sick of sitting at home and going to Walmart is entertainment for a large segment of the population.

mike_d 5y ago

When a shopper enters a Walmart they have a fixed amount of money in their pocket and generally a good idea of what they want. You might get them to grab a candy bar, or buy the next grade up of tires, but it is effectively shifting dollars that would have been spent there already. Revenue growth is all about adding more essential items to the store and eliminating trips to other retailers. Amazon has much more discretionary budget to try and extract from their customers, so time on site is absolutely critical. I'd say the two aren't even competitive at this point. Amazon will need many years to build out a robust vertically integrated grocery logistics network that reaches Walmart customers. A few Whole Foods in rich neighborhoods isn't going to cut it. On the other hand, Walmart will never figure out how to sell stuff online without losing money, and will probably kill itself trying to chase Amazon for some unknown reason.

majormajor 5y ago
> When a shopper enters a Walmart they have a fixed amount of money in their pocket and generally a good idea of what they want. You might get them to grab a candy bar, or buy the next grade up of tires, but it is effectively shifting dollars that would have been spent there already. Revenue growth is all about adding more essential items to the store and eliminating trips to other retailers. People with credit cards shop at Walmart too, and there's a significant amount of marketing effort done to convince people to get new items they weren't planning on while they're there. Plenty of people there can be sold new things without going into a "oh, this new toy for my kid on the aisle endcap looks nice, time to put away the dozen eggs because I only have X dollars allocated for this trip" same-net-spending reaction. (Anecdotally, my behavior is basicaly the opposite of what you describe: I got to Amazon when I already want a specific thing, and I find their browsing experience god-awful. I go to a physical store when I want to browse or shop without direction. Maybe I'll end up with a new shirt, or a book, or a video game, or a plant... maybe nothing...)
- robocat 5y ago
  > People with credit cards shop at Walmart too If people spend next months wages, that only temporarily increases sales. Long term I would expect that non-Walmart credit would decrease sales, since shopper’s income remains constant but they pay more on interest so less remaining for other goods.

overtonwhy 5y ago

Ethically they're the same and I boycott both and encourage everyone else to do the same. Vote with your money for how you want the world to work.

sokoloff 5y ago
I want well-priced consumer goods, broad selection, and fast/easy logistics. I do vote with my wallet and Amazon earns a lot of share of it.

_huayra_ 5y ago

Is there a better way than google shopping to find deals across sites for products? I try to avoid using Amazon out of practical (e.g. products often being cheaper elsewhere, often have less worry about getting some SKU-identical knockoff that amazon absorbed from some FBA hack) and sometimes ideological (a CEO who rides a particularly phallic rocket into space and then gloats about it while his employees are treated like subhuman machines is an infuriating character to say the least). However, I'm not sure if there is a reliable non-Google way to search a wide variety of other shopping sites without getting hits for bad aliexpress or ebay auctions for clearly stolen / counterfeit items. I already own a pair of Abibas and that is more than enough :/

1-6 5y ago
Slickdeals, CamelCamelCamel
wombat-man 5y ago
I kinda gave up on amazon too at this point. I'm at the point where I trust a few stores to not sell me bogus stuff. Target, Walmart, Costco, REI. All are good. Yes I know walmart and target have 3rd party sellers, just don't buy from those. I am okay with paying a little more, or getting a slightly worse deal to get something I know is "genuine" or well made. Especially if I plan on putting it in/on my body. I know ethically walmart isn't way better. But afaik they still have old fashioned relationships with their product sourcers. Meaning they're probably buying all their cereals/foods directly from manufacturers, for example.
- cma 5y ago
  Costco, online at least, sells all kinds of bogus stuff: https://www.reddit.com/r/Costco/comments/ojhrts/costco_is_devaluing_their_brand_by_selling_snake/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Costco/comments/ojhrts/costco_is_de...
  - wombat-man 5y ago
    weird! Well, but for normal stuff they usually have good stuff, and a great return policy if it doesn't work out.

SeanFerree 5y ago

Walmart usually has better prices. It's just that going there is a pain. I do prefer going to a store and looking at some things before I purchase them. With the speed of delivery it's hard to argue against Amazon though

ndesaulniers 5y ago

I use both sites for shopping. Walmart has free (roughly) two day shipping if you spend $35+. For bulkier items and (frequently IME) better prices, I prefer Walmart to Amazon Prime. I have major concerns over fraudulent or quid pro quo reviews on Amazon, and the prices generally aren't the best around. Free (or rather included) next day shipping is great though.

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago

Walmart has a grocery service at multiple locations where I live without excessive costs for pantry items. Amazon cant compete there.

FREETELEVISION 5y ago

I ordered six lbs of Salmon Fillet for pickup today. Website said my order was cancelled, however weight adjusted for 4 lbs. Then got a notice my order was ready. They billed me for 4 lbs. But they gave me 16 lbs. This happened once before for 32 lbs. They always give me a couple FREE. Just on salmon. LOL!!!! I eat salmon everday, cheaeper than chicken at this rate.

segmondy 5y ago

Why won't they? The other day I needed a set of air hose tools and looked it up at Amazon, saw it for $19. Went to my local store auto parts store because I wanted to support my local business and they have a fraction of the Amazon set for $42. I ordered it from Amazon and had it in 12 hours. Needed lawn mower filters, at home depot, it was $10.99 for 1 filter. For the 2 types I wanted, got them for $8.99 for 4 and 5 pieces. Using amazon is not even fair. I won't buy food, expensive electronics, or really bulky items from them, but for most things they are seriously crushing the competitors.

tablespoon 5y ago
> Using amazon is not even fair. ...but for most things they are seriously crushing the competitors. Not in my experience. I've seriously dialed back my usage of them, but what started me on that path several years ago was comparison shopping for the first time in a long time, and finding that local stores usually matched and sometimes beat Amazon's prices. Why wait 3+ days for two day shipping when I could literally pick it up now for the same price? Now the main issue I have is all the garbage products with fake reviews.
systemvoltage 5y ago
The main advantage of Amazon is not the price IMO. It is the fact that I don't have to deal with driving up to Walmart/Target, navigating through the crowd, standing in the line, traffic, etc and robbing 2 hours of my day. Click and it shows up at the door is the best part of any online shopping experience, Amazon's 2 day shipment is the cherry on the cake.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  Yeah the time to go there and the 50% chance that they don’t have the product when you get there are the worst
SevenSigs 5y ago
Amazon shows different prices to different people... now that they got you hooked, you better watch out.

cprayingmantis 5y ago

Everything is nibbling away at Walmart. The big one that I don't think people are paying attention to anymore is Dollar General. Dollar General has cut out at least half of trips to Walmart just by virtue of convenience according to the people I hang out with.

coolgeek 5y ago
I'm not a fan of Dollar General. But there's something poetic about a smaller competitor eating away at WalMart's margins after WalMart destroyed so many small businesses.